Thread: Ultrasonic Record Cleaners ???

I currently have a VPI record cleaner. Some of my friends own ultrasonic cleaners, and love them. As I'm putting the finishing touches on my system before retirement, I'm thinking hard about buying one of these new machines.

I would love some feedback with owners of these machines. And I have 2 questions.

1. Are they really that much better than what I have ?

2. Which is better, the Audio Desk or the Klaudio ?

Originally Posted by MDP

I currently have a VPI record cleaner. Some of my friends own ultrasonic cleaners, and love them. As I'm putting the finishing touches on my system before retirement, I'm thinking hard about buying one of these new machines.

I would love some feedback with owners of these machines. And I have 2 questions.

1. Are they really that much better than what I have ?

2. Which is better, the Audio Desk or the Klaudio ?

klaudio record cleaner

I have the AudioDesk & love it. I'm at approx. 2000 washes. Some may critique the need for a bio-enzyme to help with the cavitation but the system is tuned in such a way to produce ultrasonically enhanced bubbles. I do not believe such a minute dribble of the additive has a sonic impact. The concentration is low & I use less than the prescribed dosage. The rollers are gentle & do a great job even with dirty garage sale albums. There is a filter that picks up the particulates!

The ultra-sonic frequency tune & power levels are non destructive. I have only seen black vinyl grunge after washing old 2nd hand vinyl, in very poor condition that has sustained compression & stylus damage. I have put some very dirty old finds through it & have been amazed at what has resurrected. It won't of course repair but it will clean & rejuvenate by removing years of dirt, oil, mould & tobacco tar. When I wash such finds, I do them in two batches using more concentrate & then run them through again after a water change. It will remove mould growth but I prefer not to wash nor keep such vinyl for fear of contamination risk. A tell-tail sign of mould damage on clean vinyl are the spider veins where the mould fed. It will be noisy where the damage is.

The downside is that a few water droplets sometimes remain after drying 130-150g vinyl. On a few occasions with thin vinyl, the label has been splashed with a single droplet or two. I keep a micro fibre & a carbon brush on hand to absorb or spread the droplet(s).

I prefer the adjustable wash/dry cycles on the Klaudio. Extending the dry time on thin vinyl could help dispel any remaining droplets. But apart from that, the Klaudio is quite a different machine that relies solely on ultrasonic bombardment without any contact bathing & additives.

Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor

klaudio record cleaner

+1

I have experience with both and the short answer is the KLAUDiO. Better build quality and uses just water (no solution) are just a couple of quick reasons.

Thanks guys !

Myles, I read your review on the Klaudio yesterday, it was a well written and detailed review. You're a great writer.

I have the AudioDesk. Works like a charm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks Rob, I'l check it out.

Dre, thanks for always giving me help, I really appreciate it !

Both will do the work.
I prefer Klaudio because
Is more automated and use only water

Thanks Nelson !

10007060_4610312792329_1889090599222042015_n.jpg

Myles, is that some kind of case for it ?

I have the AudioDesk RCM. Well thought out design. Only downside I see is that the fan cycle is over 70 db for about 3 minutes.

Originally Posted by MDP

Myles, is that some kind of case for it ?

That's the just released sound dampening case for the Klaudio. Soon to come: another accessory that allows for cleaning multiple records at once.

Wow, Myles
Is it worth it ?

I have mine in the same room as you

I put my AudioDeske on the far side of an adjacent room and close the door. Really helps with the drying noise. The AD came out earlier than the KI. I might have bought the KI if it had been available for comparison. It wasn't, so I bought the AD. Since both are around $4K, I haven't had the great desire to spend another $4K for the KI. There is a cost for consumables in the AD, but they are pretty trivial compared to the capital cost of the device. I have probably cleaned about 5000 records, part of my ripping project and will clean about 2500 more before most of my cleaning is over. No mechanical problems, although I know there were problems in the earlier production runs of the AD. My sense from talking to other crazy vinylphiles is that the KI is probably slightly better, both the AD and KI are substantially better than the VPI (which I have had in one form or another since they were first introduced in the mid 80's) and both of them are a whole lot easier to use, "set it and forget it" than the VPI. One thing using the AD that I discovered is that there is a slight residue left after cleaning with my VPI, and the AD and probably the KI removes. Almost all of the records that I have cleaned and am currently cleaning have either been cleaned by my VPI already or are new. Relatively few (1-2%) are used records that I have bought in the past three or so years that I have had the AD.

Larry

I have the Klaudio and just love it. It has restored all of my old albums back to near new. Works great, very dependable and easy to use.

An indispensable addition to a serious vinyl collection. Highly recommended.

Originally Posted by MusicDirector

I don't think the AD or KI necessarily clean better than the VPI, but definitely easier and more efficiently, no doubt about it. I think it's a difference of method with the same results in my opinion and experience. However, yes, the VPI I would swear on a stack is at least 10 times louder and definitely more labor intensive, no question about it because I use a VPI 16.5. The VPI could clean 1000 records, no problem, but I can't! I would not want to stand there doing that!
However, I also only have about 400 records so a $4k ultrasonic RCM would not be cost effective in my case at the very least even if money grew on trees. (Not that I would mind having one). That said though, you can bet the farm that if I had a collection like yours or even 900 to 1000 records, I'd want an KI or AD in the strongest way.

Sorry but they're not even in the same universe. There's simply no contest between the ultrasonic cleaners and the rub a dub dub and vacuum cleaners. I've had the best of both--not to mention written about the various fluids and cleaning methods since the '90s; go to Analog Planet where Michael linked to copy of the original article that I did for Sounds Like... magazine). A lot of has simply to do with removing the proteinaceous substances left behind by the fungus, etc. that grow in the grooves (for reference, go back to the work of Bruce Maier, who started Discwasher and Jon Risch; FYI, they also did the early work on VTA vs SRA in Audio magazine). Not to mention you can drive yourself crazy trying the 10 or 15 different fluids on the market. With the KL, it's just distilled water and you're ready. But there's also more going on, whether it be removing mold release compounds, etc. Whatever, the ensuing sound is essentially a manifestation of the stylus tracing the grooves walls more accurately with much less jitter.


Certainly an alternative is if you belong an audio club and everyone in the club pitches in and buys a machine to use.

PS I wish the US cleaners were cheaper but when you see what goes into them, it's impossible.

OTOH, Rob talked about the cheaper US cleaner that I think is sold on Audiogon.

In the end, as Peter Ledermann says, "it's about groove jitter." How well does the cartridge's stylus trace and stay in contact with the groove walls?

I have had the the Klaudio for almost 2 years. Previously a VPI 16.5. As Miles has stated, the difference is night and day. Admittedly, I did not try all the many possible cleaning solutions with the VPI, preferring to go cheap with a DIY solution. With the Klaudio, I use RO water which I already had at my kitchen sink, at no additional cost. Thus, I change it frequently, about every 100 LP's.

I have no experience with the AD, but believe it does an excellent job, in spite of it's early problems with which I am glad I didn't have to deal. Additionally, I am happy I don't have to deal with the consumables required by the AD (or the VPI). The bottom line: I believe ultra sonic cleaning of LP's is the best! The sonic results are incredible.

My Klaudio is in the next room. Thus, I can place a disc in the machine, close the door, and walk away! Being a slave to the VPI, with the ear deafening noise, dependence on proper technique and SOTA solutions is history!! Meantime, I can return to enjoying music. For me, end of story.

Thanks again to everyone for all your responses on your experience with US cleaners. I think I will get one, but I need to find the right deal from someone.

I think it depends on how many records you have and whether you have any issues with many of your records. I have over 5000 LP's, so the high cost is amortised a little easier.

I have a Hannl RCM and it is very good and very quiet - quieter than the KLA and takes less time to clean a record, but cleaning is manual.

However

The KLA does clean a bit better. Records, especially new crappy US pressings definitely clean up better and end up being quieter with the KLA as do used records I have tried the KLA with.

The KLA is automatic which is great, however if it is in the same room as your HiFi, it is far too loud to listen to music.

Originally Posted by XV-1

I think it depends on how many records you have and whether you have any issues with many of your records. I have over 5000 LP's, so the high cost is amortised a little easier.

I have a Hannl RCM and it is very good and very quiet - quieter than the KLA and takes less time to clean a record.

However

The KLA does clean a bit better. Records, especially new crappy US pressings definitely clean up better and end up being quieter with the KLA as does some used records I have tried the KLA with.

The KLA is automatic which is great, however if it is in the same room as your HiFi, it is far too loud to listen to music.

The nice thing about the KLAudio or Audio Deske record cleaners is their automation. Drop the record in and either press a button or just wait for the cleaning operation to start. Certainly makes one more prone to clean their records.

My 2 cents on RCM and the KL Audio.

The KL Audio is built like a tank. The owner, Tim, used his experience from his cooling machines company to build this. I am sure some of the vendors and materials are from expertise in that field also.

There is nothing but ultrasonic waves cleaning the record and at the end it is air dried. Great as nothing touches the record.

The visual indicators are very good and easy to find out where you are in the cleaning process. You also have the option of choosing different cleaning times and separately, different drying times, all with indicators of where you are in each cycle (although once the cycle is picked, there is nothing to do but leave the room).

When it is done, there is a chirp to remind you it is done. It goes off every minute or so. That way when you are not in the room, it is not going off continuously and it is not annoying long or frequent.

The KL Audio allows distilled or regular tap water for cleaning. Take your pick. Of course for purist, distilled water is used. The instructions say not to add anything else but many I know have put in additions, some to change the ph as fat absorbers (fatty items left from new record process).

The return/warranty process is excellent, fast and easy. Tim even pays for shipping back.

The power is 200 watts. Some of the other cleaners are much lower. Not that higher is better. If not used correctly, the ultrasonic waves can be destructive to your records. Check the clean out with a different colored vinyl to see if you are losing your record. This is a line I am stealing from KL Audio who did a test with a red Vinyl record to show there was no red residue.

It is easy to put in the water as well as to remove it without taking it to the sink. The funnel provide is very cumbersome to use. I use the hose stuck straight in and gravity to make the water go from the bottle down the hose (suck in a section, hold it with the thumb, hold the distilled water container higher up then the clearer, then put the hose into where the funnel goes. Gravity does it work and fast!)

The records come out looking like new. I did have to rub off some larger grime on very old records. I don't know why it stuck on and came off so easily after the clean. Surprisingly there were no marks from where the grime was.

I was very impressed with the KL Audio as a product, as a cleaner and as a company. Hopefully Tim will produce more record accessories. I have his record clamp also. perhaps a rebranded Lyra or Jasmine cartridge??

Originally Posted by MerrillAudio

My 2 cents on RCM and the KL Audio.

The KL Audio is built like a tank. The owner, Tim, used his experience from his cooling machines company to build this. I am sure some of the vendors and materials are from expertise in that field also.

There is nothing but ultrasonic waves cleaning the record and at the end it is air dried. Great as nothing touches the record.

The visual indicators are very good and easy to find out where you are in the cleaning process. You also have the option of choosing different cleaning times and separately, different drying times, all with indicators of where you are in each cycle (although once the cycle is picked, there is nothing to do but leave the room).

When it is done, there is a chirp to remind you it is done. It goes off every minute or so. That way when you are not in the room, it is not going off continuously and it is not annoying long or frequent.

The KL Audio allows distilled or regular tap water for cleaning. Take your pick. Of course for purist, distilled water is used. The instructions say not to add anything else but many I know have put in additions, some to change the ph as fat absorbers (fatty items left from new record process).

The return/warranty process is excellent, fast and easy. Tim even pays for shipping back.

The power is 200 watts. Some of the other cleaners are much lower. Not that higher is better. If not used correctly, the ultrasonic waves can be destructive to your records. Check the clean out with a different colored vinyl to see if you are losing your record. This is a line I am stealing from KL Audio who did a test with a red Vinyl record to show there was no red residue.

It is easy to put in the water as well as to remove it without taking it to the sink. The funnel provide is very cumbersome to use. I use the hose stuck straight in and gravity to make the water go from the bottle down the hose (suck in a section, hold it with the thumb, hold the distilled water container higher up then the clearer, then put the hose into where the funnel goes. Gravity does it work and fast!)

The records come out looking like new. I did have to rub off some larger grime on very old records. I don't know why it stuck on and came off so easily after the clean. Surprisingly there were no marks from where the grime was.

I was very impressed with the KL Audio as a product, as a cleaner and as a company. Hopefully Tim will produce more record accessories. I have his record clamp also. perhaps a rebranded Lyra or Jasmine cartridge??

One minor thing. Tim is the sales manager for the RCMs; Peter Cheon is the designer.

Originally Posted by MusicDirector

Exactly. I have about 400 records and factoring in the cost of my RCM on a bad day it cost me $1.75 to clean a record. It cost 25 cents per record without factoring in the machine cost. If I got an AD or KI it would cost me at least $10 per record. 98.9% of my records were purchased for $1 to $3 so it would be a waste for me.
However, in your case with 5000 records and an AD or KI it would cost just 80 cents to clean a record. Plus I imagine the majority of your records are not used $1 records so the amortization gets smaller still.
Like I said, if I had 1000 records at any price, I'd own an AD or KI. The amortization would be $4 per record at that point, but well worth it when you factor in the automation and not having to buy chemicals and everything.

I have have often thought that because of the price and use of the RCM, it should be a shared resource. 4 audiophiles purchase it and each get it for 3 months in a year. That way the Ultrasonic cleaners would only be $1,000 each. Perhaps the 1st person pays and extra $100, the next extra $50, the next less $50 and the last less $100. Patience pays off. Or start with 1 month each in the begining and they begin the 3 month rotation.

Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor

One minor thing. Tim is the sales manager for the RCMs; Peter Cheon is the designer.

Yes, in deed.

Originally Posted by MerrillAudio

I have have often thought that because of the price and use of the RCM, it should be a shared resource. 4 audiophiles purchase it and each get it for 3 months in a year. That way the Ultrasonic cleaners would only be $1,000 each. Perhaps the 1st person pays and extra $100, the next extra $50, the next less $50 and the last less $100. Patience pays off. Or start with 1 month each in the begining and they begin the 3 month rotation.

That's exactly what I suggested. Same goes with some other audio accessories. Or audio clubs can pitch in and buy one.

I also think there's a guy now who's going around ps to different cities offering to clean LPs with the US machine. There was something about that recently posted on PFO. I'll see if I can look that out later!

Well, I bit the bullet and ordered a new Klaudio RCM today !

I love my vinyl and want to get the most out of the grooves, and with retirement coming up, I should be set as far as my vinyl system goes.

Thanks Dre !

Originally Posted by puroagave

I have David Ratcliff's V-8, its the 'hillbilly' alternative that resembles a junior high science fair project. ... I'm very pleased with mine.

Ditto. Mine has the filter as well. I found that running the filter between cleaning cycles works best. I also have a VPI 17F and need both for my particular regimen. After 40+ years of cleaning LPs, I have finally settled on a regimen in which I have complete confidence and control.

John

Originally Posted by MDP

Thanks Dre !

Pssss.
I'm going to say it very low key.....
The KLAUDIO is much better than the AudioDesk

Hahahaha

Thanks Eric !

Nelson, muchos gracias !!

Your welcome Mark,
A tus ordenes Mark

Originally Posted by MusicDirector

Congrats Mark! or
Well, now you've done it....now you have to go out and get more records!

You are in for a real treat. You will not believe how much better your LPs will sound! You will not believe how much better your system will sound!

One thing. I find that recleaning every ten - twenty plays or so keeps the LPs sounding immaculate. Not sure if it's NY air or what but you can clearly hear the instruments regain their dimensionally.

Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor

You are in for a real treat. You will not believe how much better your LPs will sound! You will not believe how much better your system will sound!

One thing. I find that recleaning every ten - twenty plays or so keeps the LPs sounding immaculate. Not sure if it's NY air or what but you can clearly hear the instruments regain their dimensionally.

Thanks Myles, I was curious about how often to do a re-cleaning.
I'm super excited