Thread: The BEST cart alignment tool

Oh the daunting task of cart alignment...we've all struggled for that perfection. what type - Baerwald, Stevenson, proprietary ...but the real secret - Cantilever alignment.

even the best protractors rely on squareness of the headshell and don't take in to account any slight deviation in cantilever. This is the most crucial piece because boys and girls that is the part holding the stylus needle and truly aligning in the grooves. why worry about rake angle and such of you are not perfectly aligned.

enter the cantilever mirror protractor. A buddy of mine on another site makes these by hand and sells them. It has changed the way I do my final alignment. I still "rough in" using a normal baerwald protractor..But then I use the cantilever protractor (still baerwald) to ensure the cantilever is precisely parallel to the line. Here is a picture of the thing and it is truly a great piece of craftsmanship and ingenuity ..plus very easy to use (okay, for us older guys , 53, you may need glasses..lol)

Easy to use. Do your alignment, sight down the center line and the cantilevel should cover it. If it is skewed slightly either way, adjust for PERFECT stylus alignment.

Originally Posted by ohbythebay

Oh the daunting task of cart alignment...we've all struggled for that perfection. what type - Baerwald, Stevenson, proprietary ...but the real secret - Cantilever alignment.

even the best protractors rely on squareness of the headshell and don't take in to account any slight deviation in cantilever. This is the most crucial piece because boys and girls that is the part holding the stylus needle and truly aligning in the grooves. why worry about rake angle and such of you are not perfectly aligned.

enter the cantilever mirror protractor. A buddy of mine on another site makes these by hand and sells them. It has changed the way I do my final alignment. I still "rough in" using a normal baerwald protractor..But then I use the cantilever protractor (still baerwald) to ensure the cantilever is precisely parallel to the line. Here is a picture of the thing and it is truly a great piece of craftsmanship and ingenuity ..plus very easy to use (okay, for us older guys , 53, you may need glasses..lol)

Easy to use. Do your alignment, sight down the center line and the cantilevel should cover it. If it is skewed slightly either way, adjust for PERFECT stylus alignment.

No one ?? Chirp chirp ? I thought this one would have SPARKED some interest...don't we love gadgets ? LOL

Very cool. Let me know where I can get one.

Originally Posted by Mike

Very cool. Let me know where I can get one.

Thanks Mike, I asked the builder to come join us here...AND , all hush hush...but they may be commercially available soon from a reputable Audio retailer...They are THAT good...I had him IMPROVE mine...lol. Originally, he only had the cross hatch at each point...I had him add an extra line to each side as a frame of reference. PLUS, the stylus tip GENTLY fits in the etched cross hatch so no bouncing around. Gives a very cleat picture of alignment especially on the HARD TO SEE microlines (that is the majority of what I have and they have always been a bear).


This one is mine...excuse the dusty picture...LOL

Absolutely! That's great. I encourage everyone to invite their friends who are interested in this great hobby.

Originally Posted by palasr

Hi Folks. That's an interesting device, but it really doesn't improve on either the Mint protractor nor the (now unobtainable) Wallytractor. Both of the aforementioned devices rely on cantilever alignment (nobody should ever align a cartridge by looking at the headshell, cartridge body, etc), and have the added benefit of being made for a specific tonearm (a set pivot to stylus distance) using arcs; the Ken Willis protractor does much the same. While I agree that a mirrored surface is necessary to eliminate parallax, this device provides none of the benefits of arc protractors, which automatically set overhang (and effective length) just by aligning the tip of the stylus to hit the arc at two points. A nice accessory, but not an alignment protractor per se; why use two devices when one superior model can do it all?

Sorry to be negative in my very first post. I'll cheer up.

I don't see it as negative....Looked up the MInt...very nice ! Double the price but its all relative correct ? So lets look at it two ways..or more

For those who don't even use one, they should have some kind of protractor, even the $19 one from Amazon..(least desirable)

For those only using that, the one I showed is better as it goes to the heart of cantilever alignment (and by the way, I have to correct you that it does in fact verify overhang, etc. because you can't have perfect cantilever alignment at both points UNLESS you are there...if overhang is wrong, then it wont align..so by default, fiddling with the cart till it is aligned will do all you say) - Much BETTER

The Mint protractor - DESIGNED for your individual table - Does the same as the above but very precise and easy to use because it is designed to get you THERE much quicker and more precisely. - BEST


How is that for a summary ? Thanks for showing me the MINT..Ill stick with mine for now but may get one when my ClearAudio arrives.

Elvoholic,

Welcome to AS...

Originally Posted by elcoholic

elcoholic here. Thought I'd register and say hello. The protractors ohbythebay posted here are mine. I call it elcoholics Mirror Protractor 2.1. See you soon.

WELCOME MY FRIEND !!! Glad you made it ! Cool place and I still think the EMP 2.1 is the coolest...Know what? When I lock in the alignment with your protractor, my test records pass with flying colors...its just a natural fit.. !!!

Look around and as to sales...Ask Mike the Admin and founder !! He is awesome..

elcoholic... Hello & Welcome to AudioShark!!!

Hi Rob, thanks for the invitation. I'm glad you're happy with the protractors. I only have 2 left and they're spoken for, so it looks like I'm sold out for the moment. I will be making another batch pretty quickly. I'll check with Mike on the rules shortly.

Cool..I use mine often as I move tables around. Will be using it tonight when my ClearAudio Concept arrives and I mount my MC cart. That extra detail of aligning to the cantilever just does the trick. Passes test records with flying colors which tells me I am spot on to how the vinyl was cut.

Rob

Me thinks you're getting a seriously nice table there. Well done. Which MC cart are you going to christen her with?

I will definitely do just that. I should be making another batch in in the not to distant future. My current project is making making 750 red 1/8" plywood hearts about 5" across for Vacation Bible School.

I'd like one too. I have a VPI classic 3 and Lyra Kleos cartridge coming soon. Thanks!

Hi Mike,

I hunted around but didn't find the rules on selling here. Is it OK to post prices or do you prefer I quote by PM?

Originally Posted by elcoholic

Hi Mike,

I hunted around but didn't find the rules on selling here. Is it OK to post prices or do you prefer I quote by PM?

Oh sure. Go ahead and post prices.

The protractors are available in Baerwald and Stevenson alignments and either work with most turntables and cartridges. It comes down to the length of the arm, offset angle, the dimensions of the cartridge, location of the cartridge mounting holes and the length of the head shell and it’s slots. The difference between the alignments is 2 or 3 mm and a degree in offset angle. The choice between these 2 optimized alignments is mostly a matter of preference. Baerwald is said to be more common and averages the tracking error across most of the record resulting in lower overall tracking error. Stevenson favors the inner tracks and seeks to reduce inner groove distortion on the last track. Manufacturers’ alignments are usually pretty close to one of these, but sometimes vary.

Protractors are $50 each or $75 for both alignments when ordered together. Shipping is via USPS Flat Rate Box, which is $5.35 and generally takes 2-3 days within the CONUS. For Canada and the UK it's $19.50.

CONUS PayPal prices are $57.01 or $82.76 for 1 or both protractors respectively. Please PM me for my PayPal ID.

Here's are links to photo albums showing the development history and production from V. 1.0 to 2.0 and to 2.1:
https://picasaweb.google.com/teamo65...eat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/teamo65...eat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/teamo65...eat=directlink

These things are awesome...I have a Baewald model...

John, not sure if you've produced yet ..but the extra lines HELP ,,just a frame for reference visually ..they should all come that way

Originally Posted by elcoholic

The protractors are available in Baerwald and Stevenson alignments and either work with most turntables and cartridges. It comes down to the length of the arm, offset angle, the dimensions of the cartridge, location of the cartridge mounting holes and the length of the head shell and it’s slots. The difference between the alignments is 2 or 3 mm and a degree in offset angle. The choice between these 2 optimized alignments is mostly a matter of preference. Baerwald is said to be more common and averages the tracking error across most of the record resulting in lower overall tracking error. Stevenson favors the inner tracks and seeks to reduce inner groove distortion on the last track. Manufacturers’ alignments are usually pretty close to one of these, but sometimes vary.

Protractors are $50 each or $75 for both alignments when ordered together. Shipping is via USPS Flat Rate Box, which is $5.35 and generally takes 2-3 days within the CONUS. For Canada and the UK it's $19.50.

CONUS PayPal prices are $57.01 or $82.76 for 1 or both protractors respectively. Please PM me for my PayPal ID.

Here's are links to photo albums showing the development history and production from V. 1.0 to 2.0 and to 2.1:
https://picasaweb.google.com/teamo65...eat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/teamo65...eat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/teamo65...eat=directlink

oops, I messed up my own post...sorry

OK girls and boys another batch is in the works. Materials are inbound and I should be ready to ship some next week. I was going to hold off a while longer with the kitchen remodel underway and all, but I couldn't resist when I got an order from India. That makes 3 continents down and 4 to go! Let's go Antarctica (slackers). OK 3 to go - South America, Africa and Australia.

The wait is over! "The BEST Cart Alignment Tools" (Rob's words, not mine) are back. 2 of these 27 beauties are headed to India tomorrow so that leaves 25 for you guys. Come an get 'em while they're hot! Elco needs a new ruby for his F9.



Part of this delay was that a major on-line audio retailer had one for evaluation. Ultimately they opted not to pick them up, which is all well and good.
Interestingly what they were citing as "cons" are specifically the "pros" of the design. In a few words they were thinking - mass production and more grid lines. This set me to thinking, maybe other folks are holding back for what I see as the wrong reasons.

The intent of the design is to align the cantilever, not the cartridge body. The printed and/or silk screened lines on other mirrored protractors are much wider than the diamond scribed line. There would be no reflexion of a narrow cantilever such as an SAS stylus. All that is seen is the cantilever on top of the wide printed/silk screened line. The advantage of parallax to achieve sub-millimeter accuracy, eye-sight permitting of course, is lost.

The durability of printed or silk screened lines on glass or applied film is far less than a line etched in the glass with a diamond scribe. Having the mirror inset into phenolic plywood makes the "2.1" much more durable than protractors with exposed glass edges that will chip easily.

You guys should grab one. I use a regular protractor for rough in...then use one of these to align the cantilever...so its like getting the first 95% right ..but this gives you that last important 5%. Word...LOL

Originally Posted by ohbythebay

You guys should grab one. I use a regular protractor for rough in...then use one of these to align the cantilever...so its like getting the first 95% right ..but this gives you that last important 5%. Word...LOL

Does he have a VPI configured one? If not, how would this differ from the reverse side of a CD (which acts like a mirror)?

Mike,

VPI? Maybe, maybe not. There's no way of knowing since they don't publish numbers and supply an "overhang" setup gauge. Most of the proprietary alignments I've been able to reverse engineer are either Baerwald or Stevenson with a few hybrids of the two. Baerwald is the overwhelming favorite alignment because it provides the best overall performance. I only recommend/use Stevenson where IGD is a problem because it has higher overall distortion. I suppose a CD would work if it was big enough, but the outer Baerwald null point is just under 121 mm and CD's are 120 mm in diameter. They also scratch easily which is why I ruled out using much cheaper plastic mirror.

Time for a bump.

Originally Posted by Mike

Does he have a VPI configured one? If not, how would this differ from the reverse side of a CD (which acts like a mirror)?

Hi Mike

Harry has his own alignment with distortion minimized in the last 3rd. Similar to Stevenson, but different. When I owned the VPI HRX I tried all the main alignments and overall I went back to Harry's simple protractor as it sounded best.
Harry knows what he is doing.

Originally Posted by XV-1

Hi Mike

Harry has his own alignment with distortion minimized in the last 3rd. Similar to Stevenson, but different. When I owned the VPI HRX I tried all the main alignments and overall I went back to Harry's simple protractor as it sounded best.
Harry knows what he is doing.

Thanks. That's what I figured.

VPI isn't alone in splitting the difference between Baerwald and Stevenson. Many of the proprietary alignments do very much the same for better or worse. VPI doesn't publish their alignment specs for most of their arms and tables. They do publish the numbers for the Traveler. They also state their alignment yields the lowest overall distortion. The alignment calculator pro on VE does not bear this out and I've yet to hear anybody say it's off. The average and peak distortion is higher than Baerwald (Lofgren A) and Stevenson. What's more the null points don't match up. This is a pitfall of proprietary alignments and why I stick to the time honored alignments from the "Masters". Baerwald is the most popular alignment for a reason. Stevenson is only recommended by yours truely where IGD is a problem. If it sounds better that's all well and good. The engineer in me want's the numbers to work out and these don't.



This also points out what a difference 4/10 ths of a mm makes in peak distortion.

Yesterday I mounted and aligned (3) cartridges on 3 of the 4 down stairs turntables. 2 Baerwald and 1 Stevenson, total alignment time was 20 minutes. These protractors make it so easy to get a cartridge dialed in it's ridiculous.

This is part of the reason I have always stayed with baerwald. I have found it the most accurate null points across the entire track selection bands. In addition, while aligning to those null points, I then take the further step of using you protractor to ensure the cantilever is truly aligned, not the cart body. As you say, a few /10ths of a mm makes a difference...

Just heard from an Aussie AK'r a pair of the protractors has arrived. That's continent #4! I know you like to rough it in first and then hone with the 2.1, but I just go straight for the cantilever. With all the cart rolling I've been doing lately with 5 carts and 5 tables I'm getting pretty close eyeballing my starting point.

2 more protractor sets are all packed up and shipping tomorrow. I still have plenty of protractors, even have 2 more pair packed and ready to go. 3 more sets and the TOTL Soundsmith Ruby-OCL F9 stylus will be mine all mine!

Call me impatient if you must, but these aren't moving fast enough to suit my feverish desire for a new Soundsmith F9 Ruby OCL. It's all for the love of new audio toys anyway, so off to the 'bay they go without the "2fer" deal for the time being anyway. The "2fer" deal for Shark's will be expire in 1 week, so that's 4:00, PDST, 8/12/13. There are 14 left in this batch. I took some new pictures as well.


Top


Back




Lined up from the side


Misalignment


On the money inside null point


On the money outside null point

That's a very nice looking tool John.

Thanks for the kind words Dave.

Well the 1st protractor to an AudioShark ships to mthham tomorrow! About 10 left in stock. Thanks Tom.

I'm about to enter that special level of hell known as major home renovations and would like to see these sold in the next couple of weeks. So I'm lowering the price by $10 so that $40 per single or $65 for the pair plus shipping and Paypal tax. Come and get them while they are hot.

Doh

Hi John

can you explain the logic behind the thickness of the protractor?

I have never seen any alignment protractor as thick as this. Most are the thickness of a mirror which is similar to an lp.
It will be difficult to align at the similar height of where the stylus hits the vinyl as it looks like you need to remove the platter mat? A lot of tables do not have thick mats or some tables do not use a mat. Eg, one of my tables does not have a mat and LP's go directly on the copper platter.

Regards
Shane

The intent is to remove the mat. 1/4" puts the surface of the mirror close to the same height as the record surface would be. I arrived at this thickness by measuring my 5 tables. I always remove the mat to use my digital scale anyway, which really needs to be at the correct height. FWIW I've compared the horizontal alignment with and without removing the mat and there's no visible difference.

Bump! Still have 10 or more in stock.

Bump 'cause you need this

Originally Posted by elcoholic

The intent is to remove the mat. 1/4" puts the surface of the mirror close to the same height as the record surface would be. I arrived at this thickness by measuring my 5 tables. I always remove the mat to use my digital scale anyway, which really needs to be at the correct height. FWIW I've compared the horizontal alignment with and without removing the mat and there's no visible difference.

I own two tables; a SME 20/2 and a Sota Star Saphire. Neither has a removable mat, and thus I am unable to use this device. Anyone wish to purchase mine?

Umm..that doesn't make sense. Mat or no mat, the slight height difference (vertical plane) will not alter the alignment which is an arc in the horizontal plane.

I think what people miss in this (for example some say an arc protractor is better) is that in this case, you are better able to allow for cantilever angle. Not every cantilever is an exact alignment to the cart/headshell. By aligning to the cantilever, you are perfecting the alignment of the diamond tip.

Picture this. The tip is on an arc and it follows that arc perfectly so you think you are aligned. But that TIP is held by a slightly off rod )the cantilever) and if you look at the tip, it is dead on (the diamond) to the cantilever. So while at the MACRO level, the whole assembly followed the arc, it did so with a slight lean on the diamond.

Hey, its not for everyone but I for one found that it took e that extra 5% better in alignment than a standard two point protractor.

Hey look who's here, Rob!

Rob did a better job of explaining it than I did. My procedure is to remove the mat because I'm going to use a digital scale to check the weight once the cart is aligned. I have done some comparisons and the 1/4" or so difference in height effects the tracking force measurement slightly. The height difference with or without the mat doesn't effect the cartridge alignment which is all in the horizontal plane.

Originally Posted by NorthStar

Hey look who's here, Rob!

Oh I still get around...LOL..just fairly passive these days due to hectic schedules...