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  1. #51

    Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

    The first attempt to explain the price increase was based on the price inflations of 'steel', but this contradicts with another explanation of "everthing's price go up, in the long run'.

    The second explanation explains every markup in the 'private market'. Resorting to the 'raw material' explanation is actually not necessarily anymore. Forget this according to this 'market' explanation. By the same token, please also forget 'introductory price' vs. 'regular price' explanation. (no one knows the real reason anyway).

    Simply put, in a private market, it's always supply and demand that determines the price. I increase and increase and increase the price up to a point that the overall profit drops consistently. Then the price may go down to attract more customers back.

    But I just noted the company owner didn't say anything (probably a wise decision), and it's just one member constantly defending the price increase with different theories with intense enthusiasm - is he working for the company? Well, in fact, it doesn't matter.

    Before learning of the tripled prices, I was just thinking that affordable isolators with excellent performance could be sold to many more audiophiles in the world and may make even more profits than selling less expensive units to a smaller group of consumers. I *thought* it's a new way of doing business.

    But if tripling or further price increase (as 'everything's price will increase in the long run) is the company's business strategies, please go ahead. If the 'price increase' decision is based on some serious consideration on the new projected profit outcome, and if it can be achieved, that's very good for the firm (not necessarily for those audiophiles who can't afford them - but doing so maximize profits according to the plan). Yet for the same inflated price range, there're many equally persuasive competitors like Symposium, Finite Elemente, Harmonix, Townshend, Weizhi (more famous in Asia) and the list is almost endless. Wish you every success in this situation indeed.

    BTW, I am using Linn LP12 from the 1980s. Not a lot of vintage gears stay in the market with strong or even higher resale value. For solid state amp - most are out of spec. Of course some don't care about spec. But most vintage gears are not Linn. Still LP12 is very special (and not Linn's speakers, let alone Linn's digital products), which seems not to be suitable for comparison with the case here, unless you seriously believe EVP could follow Linn' LP12s path.

    Lastly, I still like EVP as a product. It pose challenges to existing way of doing isolations, and may stimulate more creative design of other companies. But I am looking for something else for fun.

    PS: I remember that there may be only a handful of studies that examine the effects of different materials on isolating the speakers from different speaker stands, one of which is by Stereophile's John Atkinson dated back into 199x. That article has successfully popularized Blu-Tac in audiophile communities for almost a decade (and in fact still useful if you don't want to buy expensive isolators), as a few other 'special' acoustics isolators perform less impressive than Blu-Tac. Putting aside the older technology, no more studies like this are available. Bob Katz compared EVP to, a piece of wood. It's not comparing a wide range of isolators with a controlled environment like what John Atkinson did. Simply put, everyone says they are the best. Forum discussion about which one is the best is leading nowhere unless you tried them all and have sophisticated accelerometer and testing tools, since in reality your unique listening environment and unique gears could interact with different isolators in a very complex manner. Why there isn't any serious tests anymore? I see this happening in the area of speaker measurements, and this help a lot. So good luck with all of our search for isolators.

  2. #52

    Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

    Quote Originally Posted by chacha7 View Post
    The first attempt to explain the price increase was based on the price inflations of 'steel', but this contradicts with another explanation of "everthing's price go up, in the long run'.

    The second explanation explains every markup in the 'private market'. Resorting to the 'raw material' explanation is actually not necessarily anymore. Forget this according to this 'market' explanation. By the same token, please also forget 'introductory price' vs. 'regular price' explanation. (no one knows the real reason anyway).

    Simply put, in a private market, it's always supply and demand that determines the price. I increase and increase and increase the price up to a point that the overall profit drops consistently. Then the price may go down to attract more customers back.

    But I just noted the company owner didn't say anything (probably a wise decision), and it's just one member constantly defending the price increase with different theories with intense enthusiasm - is he working for the company? Well, in fact, it doesn't matter.
    if you're referring to me, I don't work for A/V Roomservice. I've bought their products at their prices current at the time, just like anyone else.

    Furthermore, I'm not defending anything with respect to price increases with enthusiasm, I'm just stating facts.

    Here are the facts: EVPs work very effectively with respect to their design brief, and their price is $89.

    Folks can decide for themselves if that constitutes a value proposition or not.

    As mentioned before, no one's arm is being twisted here to buy anything.

  3. #53
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    Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

    these were sold cheap to find a place in the market.
    now, etablished, they follow normal concept. not overpriced i think.

    hey, if you do mind the price, these are very easy to fabricate yourself.
    you might even pimp them with higher grade rubber.

  4. #54

    Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

    Quote Originally Posted by u-sound View Post
    these were sold cheap to find a place in the market.
    now, etablished, they follow normal concept. not overpriced i think.

    hey, if you do mind the price, these are very easy to fabricate yourself.
    you might even pimp them with higher grade rubber.
    There is almost always more than one way to mediate a transfer function. This is one of the underlying principles of TRIZ.

  5. #55
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    Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

    hmm, got to study about TRIZ before i can discuss about with you
    btw, where do you think thouse avp work best? speaker/subwoofer or rather electronics?

    more than this, how consistent are the results with various models?

  6. #56

    Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

    Quote Originally Posted by u-sound View Post
    hmm, got to study about TRIZ before i can discuss about with you
    btw, where do you think thouse avp work best? speaker/subwoofer or rather electronics?

    more than this, how consistent are the results with various models?
    A great introduction to TRIZ is the book, And Suddenly, the Inventor Appeared by Geinrich Altschuler.

    A great place to start with EVPs is under a subwoofer.

  7. #57
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    Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    A great introduction to TRIZ is the book, And Suddenly, the Inventor Appeared by Geinrich Altschuler.

    A great place to start with EVPs is under a subwoofer.
    Ditto on that. I started with them under the subwoofers and just loved it.
    Amplification: Accuphase A200 (2)//C3800// LampiZator MC2/Silver
    Tuner: MagnumDynalab 108T/SE
    Table/Cart: J.Sikora Standard Max // J Sikora KV12 > Lyra Kleos // Kuzma 4Point Eleven > ClearAudio Concerto V. 2
    Speakers: TAD R-1 MkII, REL 212SE (2)
    Power: Nordost QBase8 Mk2 (2), QX4, Qkore1, 3 and 6, QK1 (2), QV2 (2), AddPOWR EAU2 (2)
    DAC/Spinner: LampiZator Pacific/ Luxman D-08u
    LampiZator SuperKomputer
    Final Touch Audio PCs, Elrod Master Statement Diamond PCs (3), CH Acoustic X10 PC (2), CH Acoustic X10 ICs throughout
    AudioDesk Systeme RCM
    Stillpoints and SortKones and EVPs - to near excess
    Symposium Super Plus Platforms under subs, on top of EVPs

  8. #58

    Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

    While subs are not a bad place to start, Iíve found them about equally helpful under everything, especially everything thatís on the floor (speakers) and bottom shelf. Four are usually better than three for components, and anything over 15 lbs or so do better with HD, the siteís table aside. Perhaps a very solid floor might be an exception to that. I would say though that given the price rise, Gaiaís might be more price effective for lighter or mid weight speakers (they havenít gone up in price). I may check out the II under 78 lb actives soon, although 4 x 2Ē EVPs seem as good under them as 68 pounders so far. Just also give the Gaia a lot of weight leeway on their upper end spec, at least 10% and perhaps as much as 20% or so, to be sure (e.g., Gaia II for a 55 lb speaker, vs. the Gaia I spec of up to 72 lbs).
    Lampizator Atlantic TRP dac, Supratek Chardonnay preamp, Ric Schulz modified Oppo 203, ATC SCM19A active speakers, PS Audio PowerBase, P15 Regenerator AC-12 power cords, AV Roomservice EVPs, MG Audio AG2 XLR/RCA ICs, Purist Audio Design Neptune S/PDIF & HDMI cables, iFi S/PDIF Purifier w/ Paul Hynes SR4 LPS, SR Orange fuses, Furutech GTX-D (R) outlet, Samsung F8000 HDTV, Audioquest Carbon HDMI cable, CATV with Tii-220 cable filter, JL Audio e-110 subs in waiting.
    Desktop: Quad 12L active speakers, RAC ICs, Synergistic Research Black fuses

  9. #59

    Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

    Since no one has posted any application pics, here are the EVP's under my REL 212SE sub.
    Love them!


    Jeff Rowland 925 - EMM Labs DV2 + NS1 - MBL 101E MkII + REL 212SE - Wireworld Platinum Eclipse 8 - Transparent Reference XL - Mojo Audio modded MacMini with UpTone Linear Power Supply - Audioquest Niagara 5000 - AudioQuest Dragon/Hurricane HC Power Cords - - ADDpower Sorcerer 2

  10. #60

    Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

    Here's a couple more close up. The Oppo ones are LD, and note that the (68 lb) speaker front right one (HD) has a neoprene washer on top for leveling and looks displaced a bit about halfway up. They do that, without losing effectiveness. Best to locate the speakers first, then place them underneath, but in tweaking a speaker's position that's not possible. Perhaps the 4" would be more resilient, but they were and remain a lot more money.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #61
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    Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

    Here are the EVPs under a Symposium stand with the REL 212s on top of that. Better bass, way less transfer to the room structure. Works well for me. IMG_0305.jpg


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Amplification: Accuphase A200 (2)//C3800// LampiZator MC2/Silver
    Tuner: MagnumDynalab 108T/SE
    Table/Cart: J.Sikora Standard Max // J Sikora KV12 > Lyra Kleos // Kuzma 4Point Eleven > ClearAudio Concerto V. 2
    Speakers: TAD R-1 MkII, REL 212SE (2)
    Power: Nordost QBase8 Mk2 (2), QX4, Qkore1, 3 and 6, QK1 (2), QV2 (2), AddPOWR EAU2 (2)
    DAC/Spinner: LampiZator Pacific/ Luxman D-08u
    LampiZator SuperKomputer
    Final Touch Audio PCs, Elrod Master Statement Diamond PCs (3), CH Acoustic X10 PC (2), CH Acoustic X10 ICs throughout
    AudioDesk Systeme RCM
    Stillpoints and SortKones and EVPs - to near excess
    Symposium Super Plus Platforms under subs, on top of EVPs

  12. #62
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    Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

    Iíve been considering them for placement under my new subs. At $189 ea for the 4Ē product (I need 8) Iím likely to pursue a different solution. Maybe Iíll give the ISO Acosutics ISO-Pucks or the Orea Bourdeax a try.
    _______________

    Mike

  13. #63

    Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

    How much do your subs weigh? The Music Room in Colorado has good prices on the Gaia models and HiFi Shark is a good place to watch for the used and sometimes new market.
    Lampizator Atlantic TRP dac, Supratek Chardonnay preamp, Ric Schulz modified Oppo 203, ATC SCM19A active speakers, PS Audio PowerBase, P15 Regenerator AC-12 power cords, AV Roomservice EVPs, MG Audio AG2 XLR/RCA ICs, Purist Audio Design Neptune S/PDIF & HDMI cables, iFi S/PDIF Purifier w/ Paul Hynes SR4 LPS, SR Orange fuses, Furutech GTX-D (R) outlet, Samsung F8000 HDTV, Audioquest Carbon HDMI cable, CATV with Tii-220 cable filter, JL Audio e-110 subs in waiting.
    Desktop: Quad 12L active speakers, RAC ICs, Synergistic Research Black fuses

  14. #64
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    Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

    Each sub weights 84 pounds plus 34 pounds for the sub platform - 118 pounds for each channel.
    _______________

    Mike

  15. #65

    Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

    If that platformís bottom has threaded holes then Gaia 1ís would work. The Music Room advertises them for $430/4 (hifishark.com) and you might do better asking them what theyíd be willing to do for 8. Thatís a lot of weight, and I canít imagine Iso-pucks or Oreas cutting it sonically. Beyond that, the Townshend platform products are very well regarded, but they are out of England, so the importer adds a cut. Home | speaker isolation.
    Lampizator Atlantic TRP dac, Supratek Chardonnay preamp, Ric Schulz modified Oppo 203, ATC SCM19A active speakers, PS Audio PowerBase, P15 Regenerator AC-12 power cords, AV Roomservice EVPs, MG Audio AG2 XLR/RCA ICs, Purist Audio Design Neptune S/PDIF & HDMI cables, iFi S/PDIF Purifier w/ Paul Hynes SR4 LPS, SR Orange fuses, Furutech GTX-D (R) outlet, Samsung F8000 HDTV, Audioquest Carbon HDMI cable, CATV with Tii-220 cable filter, JL Audio e-110 subs in waiting.
    Desktop: Quad 12L active speakers, RAC ICs, Synergistic Research Black fuses

  16. #66

    Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritmo View Post
    Iíve been considering them for placement under my new subs. At $189 ea for the 4Ē product (I need 8) Iím likely to pursue a different solution. Maybe Iíll give the ISO Acosutics ISO-Pucks or the Orea Bourdeax a try.
    Mike,
    You could also potentially use 2 of the new EVP Platform, one under the front of the sub and one at the back, rather than four, one at each corner. I'd price them out and see what's least expensive. Also, I know these are somewhat pricey for the 4" square versions, but my recommendation is to order them and try them out.

    Here's something to consider: Yes, they're a bit pricey at $189/each for the 4" square versions, but here's the deal...they are WAY less expensive than having your room re-constructed to solve the same exactly problems these will solve by putting them under your sub.

    They come with a 30-day money-back guarantee, so you can use them for 30-days, and if they don't work out, return them for a full refund.

    Oh, and for a sub, the correct IsoAcoustic footer is an Gaia II or Gaia I, depending on the weight of the sub. I don't think the ISO-Pucks are designed to support the weight of your subs. Moreover, the Orea are for components, the Gaia series are for speakers and subs. Different products for different applications.

    Please keep us apprised of what you decide, and what works out for you, but I will say that putting these under my sub made one of the biggest improvements I've ever made to my system because they made the room considerably quieter.

    Cheers!

  17. #67

    Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

    Quote Originally Posted by highstream View Post
    If that platformís bottom has threaded holes then Gaia 1ís would work. The Music Room advertises them for $430/4 (hifishark.com) and you might do better asking them what theyíd be willing to do for 8. Thatís a lot of weight, and I canít imagine Iso-pucks or Oreas cutting it sonically. Beyond that, the Townshend platform products are very well regarded, but they are out of England, so the importer adds a cut. Home | speaker isolation.
    You're correct, the Iso-Pucks or Oreas won't work for this application. I'm with you, thinking Orea 1 or Orea II will be the correct footer.

  18. #68

    Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

    Quote Originally Posted by highstream View Post
    Four are usually better than three for components...
    That's my experience with vibration feet too.

  19. #69

    Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    That's my experience with vibration feet too.
    It depends. Three feet work great on turntables, because its impossible to rock a tripod.

    Also, my Lampizator DAC comes with 3 feet as the standard set-up. Works well in that application, too.

  20. #70

    Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

    I use 3 with my Lampi TRP too, but that's only because I'm hesitant to take off the feet that come with, which are supposed to be an isolating product. I use four under everything else, though, based on comparisons.

    I think you meant Gaia I or II. If you check the weights, the II only goes up to 121 lbs/4. What I learned using III's (72 lbs max) under 68 lb speakers, running close to the limit doesn't cut it. The EVP's provided easily superior isolation to the III's in that situation. Sean Morrison of Isoacoustics had suggested them, then later apologized for misguiding me, saying leave at least 10%. My thinking is more leeway. In any case, I have a set of II's and may give them a try one of these days.
    Lampizator Atlantic TRP dac, Supratek Chardonnay preamp, Ric Schulz modified Oppo 203, ATC SCM19A active speakers, PS Audio PowerBase, P15 Regenerator AC-12 power cords, AV Roomservice EVPs, MG Audio AG2 XLR/RCA ICs, Purist Audio Design Neptune S/PDIF & HDMI cables, iFi S/PDIF Purifier w/ Paul Hynes SR4 LPS, SR Orange fuses, Furutech GTX-D (R) outlet, Samsung F8000 HDTV, Audioquest Carbon HDMI cable, CATV with Tii-220 cable filter, JL Audio e-110 subs in waiting.
    Desktop: Quad 12L active speakers, RAC ICs, Synergistic Research Black fuses

  21. #71

    Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

    Quote Originally Posted by highstream View Post
    I use 3 with my Lampi TRP too, but that's only because I'm hesitant to take off the feet that come with, which are supposed to be an isolating product. I use four under everything else, though, based on comparisons.

    I think you meant Gaia I or II. If you check the weights, the II only goes up to 121 lbs/4. What I learned using III's (72 lbs max) under 68 lb speakers, running close to the limit doesn't cut it. The EVP's provided easily superior isolation to the III's in that situation. Sean Morrison of Isoacoustics had suggested them, then later apologized for misguiding me, saying leave at least 10%. My thinking is more leeway. In any case, I have a set of II's and may give them a try one of these days.
    Those Lampi DACs are pretty sweet, aren't they?

  22. #72
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    Re: AV RoomService-EVP (Equipment Vibration Protectors)

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    Mike,
    You could also potentially use 2 of the new EVP Platform, one under the front of the sub and one at the back, rather than four, one at each corner. I'd price them out and see what's least expensive. Also, I know these are somewhat pricey for the 4" square versions, but my recommendation is to order them and try them out.

    Here's something to consider: Yes, they're a bit pricey at $189/each for the 4" square versions, but here's the deal...they are WAY less expensive than having your room re-constructed to solve the same exactly problems these will solve by putting them under your sub.

    They come with a 30-day money-back guarantee, so you can use them for 30-days, and if they don't work out, return them for a full refund.

    Oh, and for a sub, the correct IsoAcoustic footer is an Gaia II or Gaia I, depending on the weight of the sub. I don't think the ISO-Pucks are designed to support the weight of your subs. Moreover, the Orea are for components, the Gaia series are for speakers and subs. Different products for different applications.

    Please keep us apprised of what you decide, and what works out for you, but I will say that putting these under my sub made one of the biggest improvements I've ever made to my system because they made the room considerably quieter.

    Cheers!
    Thanks for your thoughts Stephen.

    The Iso Puck 76 and Orea Bordeaux would be able to handle the weight without issues. Also looking at the Gaias. The decision will depend on being able to get a platform to accommodate them.

    As for the A/V Room products, the plates are much more expensive than the EVPs.
    _______________

    Mike

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