Thread: Affordable Isolation

I am looking for affordable isolation devices. By affordable I will state a limit of $500/component. By component I mean a DAC preamp, etc. not one isolation device.

I have 4 components to isolate. Two amplifier monoblocks (12.5 pounds each), a DAC, and a preamp. The amps are on walnut butcher block platforms. The DAC and pre are on walnut butcher block shelves.

Thanks for suggestions.

ISOAcoustic OREA series. It’s what I use at home. Outstanding at dissipation (you don’t want isolation).


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Originally Posted by Mike

ISOAcoustic OREA series. It’s what I use at home. Outstanding at dissipation (you don’t want isolation).


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How do they compare with devices like Finite Elemente and Stillpoint footers and other devices that take a different approach? That being hard material against hard material instead of absorbent material. I worry about too much dampening doing the same to the sound.

Herbie's Audio Lab, I bought some Tender Feet and they worked great, the improvement in sound quality was noticeable, and very reasonably priced.

I haven't compared them to similar, I ordered mine after hearing what a difference they made in my friend's system. A return policy if not happy but I suspect he don't get many back.

I just had my components sitting on the shelf of the rack so I imagine some isolation was warranted, I just had no idea how effective this type of treatment could be. I made a post after getting the Tender Feet where I may have more information than I remember now.

Have had good results with various IsoAcoustics, Synergistic MIGs, Gingko Cloud (but not the wool half-balls), Herbie’s dots.

Originally Posted by Dizzie

How do they compare with devices like Finite Elemente and Stillpoint footers and other devices that take a different approach? That being hard material against hard material instead of absorbent material. I worry about too much dampening doing the same to the sound.

Far better than stillpoints.


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Originally Posted by Mike

ISOAcoustic OREA series. It’s what I use at home. Outstanding at dissipation (you don’t want isolation).


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+1 on the OREAs. I've tried others including Stillpoints and Herbie's Tenderfeet and the OREAs worked best in my system.

As best as I can figure and possibly specific to this piece of furniture, I found that using Oreas under the pictured Butcher Block Acoustics platform sounded more natural than without the platform and more natural than an expensive isolation footer either directly on the furniture or in addition to the Oreas and platform combo. YMMV.

Has anyone used the IsoAcoustic Pro Audio equivalent of Orea - the Puck range?

They are appreciably less costly than Orea and seem to offer much the same.

Incidentally, for a quick test to see if alternate feet make an iota of difference to the sound, it is valid to simply lift the amp (or whatever) with your fingers so it becomes separated from the supporting shelf? Then return to its feet. Peter

Thanks for the suggestions. I am listening.

Any experience with isolation devices for a Shunyata Denali 600/S v2 beside the stock Shunyata Isolation SSF-38 Footer?

I can't help but think people get trapped in this mindset of finding solutions to problems which don't exist. My Denali is strapped to the wall in a vertical orientation using velcro. My Stewart electric projection screen - which is a 2 person lift - did a kamikaze off the ceiling, collected the Denali whilst in free fall, ripped it off the wall and both crashed on the floor. The Denali survived, the screen did not. All the while the Denali kept doing its thing unperturbed. And to think we fuss over vibration and isolation devices. If people want to throw their play money at vibration devices and other black magic solutions to problems which don't exist, my suggestion is to use that money to buy better speakers. Better speakers result in better sound. Isolation devices under a Denali - for eye candy purposes maybe, but not a quantum leap towards better sound.

Falling on the floor and continuing to play is hardly the same as vibration issues. Like noise you aren't aware of until it's gone, either via power conditioning or better cables the same with vibration, when it's goen or improved on the sound is improved. Unless you've experimented yourself you should refrain from condescending bashing. You have pretty nice cables, are those just for looks? If so, you are sort of calling the kettle black. If not, I don't get the point of your post at all.

Originally Posted by brodricj

I can't help but think people get trapped in this mindset of finding solutions to problems which don't exist. My Denali is strapped to the wall in a vertical orientation using velcro. My Stewart electric projection screen - which is a 2 person lift - did a kamikaze off the ceiling, collected the Denali whilst in free fall, ripped it off the wall and both crashed on the floor. The Denali survived, the screen did not. All the while the Denali kept doing its thing unperturbed. And to think we fuss over vibration and isolation devices. If people want to throw their play money at vibration devices and other black magic solutions to problems which don't exist, my suggestion is to use that money to buy better speakers. Better speakers result in better sound. Isolation devices under a Denali - for eye candy purposes maybe, but not a quantum leap towards better sound.

Originally Posted by JCS123

Mike, which component(s) do you think would benefit the most from using the OREA's? My system: Monoblocks, a preamp, a streamer/network player and a CD player. I've been very happy with Herbie's Tenderfeet under all components, but the tweaker in me is curious if the relatively affordable OREA's might offer a noticeable improvement on one component. My budget won't allow for 4 under everything.

Thanks in advance.

Number 1 by a mile:

CD player.

Number 2 (close second): Streamer

Number 3 preamp

Number 4 amps (leave until very last. My findings have been mixed here. Big heavy SS amps, meh. Light flea watt tube = yes!


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Originally Posted by brodricj

I can't help but think people get trapped in this mindset of finding solutions to problems which don't exist. …. If people want to throw their play money at vibration devices and other black magic solutions to problems which don't exist, my suggestion is to use that money to buy better speakers. Better speakers result in better sound. Isolation devices under a Denali - for eye candy purposes maybe, but not a quantum leap towards better sound.

I’m puzzled by your post, to be honest. For a guy who’s dropped the kind of $ on his system that you have, including expensive racks - which are basically about vibration management - it seems odd you’d say something that many have experienced benefits from is black magic.

Do you not have vibration management under any of your gear? The Magico’s for instance, or under the gear that sits on your racks.

Originally Posted by jmusica

I’m puzzled by your post, to be honest. For a guy who’s dropped the kind of $ on his system that you have, including expensive racks - which are basically about vibration management - it seems odd you’d say something that many have experienced benefits from is black magic.

Do you not have vibration management under any of your gear? The Magico’s for instance, or under the gear that sits on your racks.

Do you not think that the ultra $ components in the system already have very carefully designed feet, crafted specifically for the unit they support? Chucking more dosh at already very costly and properly designed kit (including feet) seems somewat daft to me!

Originally Posted by Hear Here

Do you not think that the ultra $ components in the system already have very carefully designed feet, crafted specifically for the unit they support? Chucking more dosh at already very costly and properly designed kit (including feet) seems somewat daft to me!

Stock feet may be a cost compromise. The shelf or platform the equipment is placed on plays a factor in what isolation is optimal. Equipment manufacturers have no control over final placement. Less expensive equipment may have nothing special used as footers. But for $200 a set of OREAs can be tried.

I have ordered some OREAs. For what I have invested in my system they seem like a very affordable option with technology behind the design. I use GAIAs on the speakers in the room with a tile floor.

I do not understand the bellyaching about trying something. If it works, great. If it doesn't move on. I consider the speakers in my two systems endgame. I am not looking at other brands. Moving up the line is out of my comfort zone for expenditures. I also don't have the space for the next level of speaker.

My goal is to optimize the room and ancillary equipment. Experimenting with isolation is not a crime and not "daft". In fact it makes perfect sense to me since I have experienced positive results in the past.

Originally Posted by Dizzie

Stock feet may be a cost compromise. The shelf or platform the equipment is placed on plays a factor in what isolation is optimal.

I do not understand the bellyaching about trying something.

My goal is to optimize the room and ancillary equipment. Experimenting with isolation is not a crime and not "daft". In fact it makes perfect sense to me since I have experienced positive results in the past.

Yep

Saying it’s “daft” to do that, fwiw, is calling probably >75% of the people on this site daft. And, goes against the real-world experience of many of us, including what very knowledgeable people, including dealers, put in their home systems. Are they also daft, or maybe they just like to waste money.

I really wish people would stop being so dismissive of others on this site. Not agreeing is one thing, but telling people they’re basically stupid because you disagree with them is uncool.

Originally Posted by Dizzie

Stock feet may be a cost compromise. The shelf or platform the equipment is placed on plays a factor in what isolation is optimal. Equipment manufacturers have no control over final placement.

I have ordered some OREAs. For what I have invested in my system they seem like a very affordable option with technology behind the design. I use GAIAs on the speakers in the room with a tile floor.

I do not understand the bellyaching about trying something. If it works, great. If it doesn't move on. I consider the speakers in my two systems endgame. I am not looking at other brands. Moving up the line is out of my comfort zone for expenditures. I also don't have the space for the next level of speaker.

My goal is to optimize the room and ancillary equipment. Experimenting with isolation is not a crime and not "daft". In fact it makes perfect sense to me since I have experienced positive results in the past.

I'm sorry Dizzie, but you misunderstood the motive for my post that was really aimed squarely at the person I was responding to as he seems obsessed with add-on stuff eg cables, feet, etc.

I too use GAIA Is under my own speakers as I don't want the supplied spikes between the speakers and my timber-on-concrete floor. Yes, they make an audible improvement and well worth the cost. However I don't try to improve on the rather carefully designed feet under my amp and streamer.

Earlier in this thread I asked if lifting the units with one’s finger (so totally isolating them from their normal surroundings) would identify if the supplied feet could be improved upon. So far no comments - rather disappointing! Frankly I would expect the SQ to improve by lifting the unit if the existing feet were less than great at the job they perform.

Good luck with your Orea tests. I also asked if anyone had compared audiophile Oreas with pro audio Pucks also from IsoAcoustic - again sadly no opinions offered. Peter

Originally Posted by Hear Here

Earlier in this thread I asked if lifting the units with one’s finger (so totally isolating them from their normal surroundings) would identify if the supplied feet could be improved upon. So far no comments - rather disappointing! Frankly I would expect the SQ to improve by lifting the unit if the existing feet were less than great at the job they perform.

Peter

Peter,

I tried lifting equipment by hand but by the time I got back to my listening chair to check for differences everything had fallen again.

However, your suggestion could be the ultimate test. The best isolation I ever tried were devices that were weight rated to magnetically isolate by levitation (Spike Sound Will). They worked very well but were hard to place especially if the overlaying equipment had severely uneven weight distribution like transformers. Like OREAs, they were rated for specific weights. I think the company went out of business.

Originally Posted by Dizzie

Peter,

I tried lifting equipment by hand but by the time I got back to my listening chair to check for differences everything had fallen again.

However, your suggestion could be the ultimate test. The best isolation I ever tried were devices that were weight rated to magnetically isolate by levitation (Spike Sound Will). They worked very well but were hard to place especially if the overlaying equipment had severely uneven weight distribution like transformers. Like OREAs, they were rated for specific weights. I think the company went out of business.

I think the hand-held lifting test needs a second pair of hands! I'll sk a friend to lift and return my amp while I sit at my listening chair hoping (or not) to hear any difference.

Hold your horses regarding magnetic levitation feet! HiFi Collective in the UK list them here - and at a not unreasonable price too.

Sound Will Spike | HIFICollective

I'm sure they can be found your side of the Pond too. HiFi Collective are the same poeple as distribute Duelund cable (I've just ordered a pair of Duelund speaker cables but keep that under your hat please!), so perhaps Parts Connexion in US?

Peter

Originally Posted by jmusica

Do you not have vibration management under any of your gear? The Magico’s for instance, or under the gear that sits on your racks.

Oh yeah, for sure. My components sit on Critical Mass Systems CS2, which sit on YG Rack shelves. My Magico M3's were ordered with Mfeet but I upgraded to Mpods. Also had Spods and Qpods. What I'm saying here, if I only had the budget for S3Mk2 + black magic isolation (for example)...instead of buying all that expensive vibration/isolation gear I'd be better off with a pair of M3 for the same investment.

And as for Denali, swinging it off velcro straps on the wall sounds no different to having it sitting on its own feet in the normal way. Drop 30 kg on it from ceiling height, then drop it on the floor, doesn't bother it at all. Dust it off and you're good to go. Unfortunately for me, throw the screen in the bin and order a new one.

Peter,

I had seen the HiFiCollective but thought it was out of date like all the other references I saw.

What I find interesting is what Esoteric is doing for vibration control in it's latest generation Grandioso products. They think isolation is important for good sound. The top cover is now floating instead of being fastened with screws. Because it sounds better. Where the pin point feet interface with the chassis has been optimized. Because it sounds better. Some critical circuit boards aren't fastened with bolts/risers to the chassis, they are suspended in isolation mounts. Because it sounds better. I think if we end-users start messing with our own ideas on vibration control, after the manufacturer has gone to this much experimentation and design effort, we risk upsetting the whole manufacturer optimized ecosystem.

Originally Posted by Dizzie

Peter,

I had seen the HiFiCollective but thought it was out of date like all the other references I saw.

Dizzie - HiFi Collective currently has stocks in all 3 sizes, see Sound Will Spike | HIFICollective

I've just contacted them to ask about trying a set before I purchase. They don't have demo units but they have offered a refund if I'm not happy with them. I think I'll ask members here what users think of them first. I see they've been around since at least 2009 as I've seen a review dated then.

I'm concerned that, if they were as good as described, why they are not better known about and chosen in preference to Gaias for example. The big levitating supports are good for 70-120 Kg so match Gaia Is and (at £350 for a set of 4) are about the same price. The smaller ones look very good value at £150 + VAT for a set of 4. Peter

Originally Posted by Hear Here

Dizzie - HiFi Collective currently has stocks in all 3 sizes, see Sound Will Spike | HIFICollective

I've just contacted them to ask about trying a set before I purchase. They don't have demo units but they have offered a refund if I'm not happy with them. I think I'll ask members here what users think of them first. I see they've been around since at least 2009 as I've seen a review dated then.

I'm concerned that, if they were as good as described, why they are not better known about and chosen in preference to Gaias for example. The big levitating supports are good for 70-120 Kg so match Gaia Is and (at £350 for a set of 4) are about the same price. The smaller ones look very good value at £150 + VAT for a set of 4. Peter

Peter,

I have two sets (8 units total) of the 20-40Kg version. I sold the monoblock amps I was using them on. They worked well (on those amps) but are very hard to position especially on heavy equipment with uneven weight distribution. The floating plug that contacts equipment is supposed to be positioned so it does not contact the cage that keeps if from escaping captivity. That can be difficult.

I am past the point of being able to lift heavy amps up with one hand while trying to position footers with critical placement requirements. All while laying on the floor trying to use a flashlight. So the Sound Will Spikes remain in the closet. I wish I had the lower weight rated versions for my DAC or preamp. That would be an easier task.

The SW Spikes seem to only have one retail seller and no website I could find. I recently saw two different brands/designs of magnetic elevation. This is one. I can't find the other one right now.

Amazon.com

I have OREAs on order, the lazy-man's isolation footer.

Originally Posted by Dizzie

Peter,

I have two sets (8 units total) of the 20-40Kg version. I sold the monoblock amps I was using them on. They worked well (on those amps) but are very hard to position especially on heavy equipment with uneven weight distribution. The floating plug that contacts equipment is supposed to be positioned so it does not contact the cage that keeps if from escaping captivity. That can be difficult.

I am past the point of being able to lift heavy amps up with one hand while trying to position footers with critical placement requirements. All while laying on the floor trying to use a flashlight. So the Sound Will Spikes remain in the closet. I wish I had the lower weight rated versions for my DAC or preamp. That would be an easier task.

The SW Spikes seem to only have one retail seller and no website I could find. I recently saw two different brands/designs of magnetic elevation. This is one. I can't find the other one right now. kg speakers are tricky to lift and lower carefully down precisely on 4 fussy feet!

Amazon.com

I have OREAs on order, the lazy-man's isolation footer.

Thanks for that - all very interesting and somewhat off-putting as my 95 Kg speakers would be very tricky to lower down precisely onto 4 fussy feet! Even changing spikes to Gaias was hard work, done 2 at a time by using air jacks (pump wedges) to raise the front or back of the speaker sufficiently to unscrew the spikes. I'm happy with the Gaias anyway. I hope your Oreas arrive soon and they do the job you want them to do. Peter

You are assuming too much. Just because a component has feet doesn't mean they have been "optimized" to prevent vibration. I know Merrill audio discovered his amp feet could be improved on and began shipping them with Stillpoints and selling that as an option. Not all manufacturers go to the extent of Esoteric. As Dizzy mentioned, it doesn't hurt to experiment, as I read toward the end you are intending to do.

I am looking forward to feedback here on what you all find when trying the products. Especially how much better the feet Mike suggested are over the Tender Feet.

Originally Posted by Hear Here

Do you not think that the ultra $ components in the system already have very carefully designed feet, crafted specifically for the unit they support? Chucking more dosh at already very costly and properly designed kit (including feet) seems somewat daft to me!