Suggestions for 6SN7 Tubes

**Randy Myers** · December 3, 2018, 06:52 PM

Both my Audio Mirror SET 45 mono-blocks and my Dennis Had Dragon Inspire use 6SN7 tubes. Being a noob with tube gear I want forum members opinions on what would be the best choice to for improving the sound of my SET amps.

I currently have three sets of 6SN7 tubes. The original NOS Russian tubes that came with the SET amp, a pair of NOS Sylvania tubes that I have installed in the headphone amp (the Had). I also have a pair of RCA "Gray Glass" tubes, VT-231's. These are what I currently am using in the Audio Mirror amps.

So is there anything really special out there worthy of consideration? Would the NOS RCA, Ken-Rad, GE, etc. be best choice or are some of the more exotic tubes such as Brimar, Psvane, Shuguang Black Treasure, or Sophia Blue Glass worth the extra $$$'s?

I appreciate input and opinions!

**joeinid** · December 3, 2018, 07:08 PM

http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/stor...ecial-edition/

**Randy Myers** · December 3, 2018, 07:12 PM

Ouch... nice... but ouch

.... are they really that much better... I know I could get some RCA Red Base at that price also.... these do look cool though

.

**jadedavid** · December 3, 2018, 07:34 PM

I've owned these amps twice First was on older stock pair. Then I purchased a pair from a friend who was selling his pair which were tricked out at the factory with upgraded wiring,Furutech IEC and V-Cap coupling caps.
I am a tube collector and own literally 1000's of tubes (mostly U.S. made vintage tubes).
Both my friend (when he had his amps) and I, rolled many many tubes in the amps.
By FAR, the best combo was a Tung-Sol black glass 6SL7 and RCA VT-99 (6F8G) on an adapter base for the 6SN7 position.
With this combo it wasn't even close in comparison to others.
I personally feel you would be very dissapointed with the red base 5692, not really gaining anything over what you already have.
As for the newer breed of tubes such as those referenced by Joe, I don't have any experience and am curious as to others opinions on them.

**joeinid** · December 3, 2018, 07:51 PM

I used those Treasure Globes in my Triode Corp 845 amps and it was pretty amazing. Better than stock but I don't have enough experience with others to be specific of the differences.

From a customer review on the site ...

http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/trea...sed-and-clear/

**Jack** · December 3, 2018, 08:18 PM

Randy

Between the 50's VT-231's and the Sylvania's you have about as good as you or going to get without getting into "holy grail" tube territory which will cost a fortune. If you want to explore others I would call Andy at VTS and talk to him and tell him what you have and what sound you are trying to achieve. With the tubes you have you have one known for mid-range and the other for bass drive. I have tried multiple of the current production 6SN7's and forth the most part they are just as expensive and don't sound as good. My 2 cents and like jadedavid I have tried a lot of them. For a start swap the ones you have and see what you hear.

**Mike** · December 3, 2018, 08:28 PM

I like NOS Raytheon 6SN7’s.

The NOS RCA’s are also excellent.

1578 tube is also worth a try and a good 6SN7 replacement:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Randy Myers** · December 3, 2018, 08:36 PM

Good advice guys, and thanks Jack. Always a voice of reason.

I have tried all three sets in the Audio Mirrors. The Sylvanias seemed maybe a tad bright, but very nice detail, and open sounding. The included tubes were not bad but I like the RCAs the best. More open, both deeper, and more mid and upper detail. The sound stage with the VT-231s was simply stunning, which is something I really enjoy.

**Jack** · December 3, 2018, 08:39 PM

Agree the Raytheon GTB's are a good fairly neutral tube as are the halo getter or D getter Tung Sol GTB's as well as the 50's Hytron's and all are in the $60-70 range per tube from Andy. And that sounds about right with the tubes you have and the rest of your gear. If you've got a quiet pair of the VT-231's enjoy them.

**Randy Myers** · December 3, 2018, 08:46 PM

Yea, the "Gray Glass" seem quite as any and I definitely prefer their sound. So it sounds like I have a pretty decent driver tube for now.

Maybe try an exotic after tax returns

Andy? Remember I am getting old and can't remember crap. Glad I can copy and Paste code I wrote before or I might be sunk, at work

**Jack** · December 3, 2018, 09:18 PM

Vintage Tube Services. The Smoked/Gray glass RCA's are really good I just didn't have that great of luck finding ones quiet enough for a preamp. They worked fine as driver tubes in amps though. Andy sells them graded for the application. On the Sylvania's the farther you go back in time the less forward they are but also the more expensive as rarer.

**Randy Myers** · December 3, 2018, 09:28 PM

For the Input tube I got both the original NOS tube and a buddy recommended these NOS Phillips 6SL7s tubes that I got from Hong Kong. They seem to be very nice.

**Jack** · December 3, 2018, 10:10 PM

Randy

I don't have any experience with 6SL7's like jadedavid does so I would take his guidance on those plus I don't know which tube in that amp was designed to have the most effect on the sound signature.

**Randy Myers** · December 4, 2018, 01:37 AM

I was told the 6sl7 to get a solid tube, but the 6sn7 makes a bigger difference sound wise.

**Jack** · December 4, 2018, 01:47 AM

Then for now you are good to go with the amp as you also have the ability to roll tubes with the new preamp to tailor the sound even more.

**Randy Myers** · December 4, 2018, 09:06 AM

Looking forward to the new pre-amp arrival... Not sure how much rolling capability there is with it, but we will see

...

**aKnyght** · December 4, 2018, 10:41 AM

i have found the audiotubes.com site helpful, at least as a starting place, in choosing tubes to try/roll...

6sn7 info is here: http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm

for RCA specifically: "...the RCA tubes hold the fort with deep impressive bass and rich and liquid midrange tones. The top is silky. The best examples are the VT231 greyglass types, and the early GT. The famous red base 5692 types are mellow and smooth thanks to their slightly lower Gm, with a beautiful 3D soundstage. Best bargain in the RCA camp is the early GTB tubes. Same rich sonics and these are usually priced well below all other types!"

there is also a 6sl7 section here: http://www.audiotubes.com/6sl7.htm

fwiw... i always pay up for tubes that test with with low noise / microphonics and balanced triodes

**Randy Myers** · December 12, 2018, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by joeinid

http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/stor...ecial-edition/

Thought I might swing a little treat after the holidays. But, I looked a little closer yesterday.... yea, these ain't gonna fit. Those big ass Russian Mig tubes take up a lot of room. Looks like anything with any kind of exotic glass will not fit... just straight up tubes

....

**jadedavid** · December 12, 2018, 09:26 AM

RCA's VT-99's (6F8G) fit nicely (and sound fabulous). A pair with adapters would run about $150.

**Randy Myers** · December 12, 2018, 11:39 AM

Thanks... these are certainly something worth looking in to.

**Randy Myers** · December 16, 2018, 11:12 AM

Since both my Audio Mirror mono blocks and the Dennis Had headphone amp use 6SN7's I decided to get a few sets to roll. I already have the tubes that came with the AM... I believe they are NOS Russian tubes, NOS Sylvania that were an option for the DH, and the RCA VT231 Gray Glass, I decided to pick up a set of 1952 Sylvania Bad Boys and a set of 1956 CBS-Hytron brown base 5692's (I believe they actually manufactured most if not all of the brown bases). These are supposed to compare very favorably against the RCA/GE red base tubes. So this gives me five good options to roll with until I decide on maybe something more exotic or trying adapters down the road.

Thanks for all the input. As always, you guys are great!

**jbtrio** · December 16, 2018, 05:39 PM

Randy,
The Sylvania bad boys are my favorite 6sn7 tubes. I like them even better than the round plate tungsols in my preamp. Just make sure they have 3 holes in there plates. Those are the ones you want.

**Randy Myers** · December 16, 2018, 10:00 PM

The ones I purchased were advertised as NOS Sylvania Bad Boy's and in the description it states the-holes in the plates!

**Randy Myers** · December 20, 2018, 09:16 AM

I had a nice discussion with Vladimir last evening. I had an issue with the new pre-amp that he built for me which he is taking care of. He did tell me the tube he likes the best to roll in replacement of the 6SN7 in the amplifiers is the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z. In his view he believes they sound the best in his amplifiers. I was a little concerned about their oversized base and glass bubble fitting next to the 6c33c output tubes. He said they do not interfere with each other.

Maybe I will try these as a treat after a while. For now I will have some nice tubes to roll in and listen to

....

**Randy Myers** · December 20, 2018, 11:51 PM

The 1956 CBS/Hytron Brown Base 5692 tubes arrived. Much quieter then the RCA Gray Glass. So far quite impressed with the sound quality. Very musical... hard to describe, but very inviting sounding in my SET amp... and even though I didn't think it was possible, the sound stage is even better....

**Randy Myers** · December 22, 2018, 09:25 AM

So the Sylvania Bad Boys arrived yesterday. I had to try them for a brief period just to make sure they were good

. Obviously not enough time to even let them completely warm up, but from a very brief listen I did get an idea of what they are all about.

Over all I would say the Brown Base are probably a bit more musical, that special something that is so hard to describe. However, I was impressed with how open and airy sounding the Bad Boys are. Very smooth and detailed mids and upper mids with a very inviting vocal range. Not as much low end detail (but that may improve with warm up time as I have seen with other components). The one thing that was very different from the Brown Base is the Bad Boy's sound stage was very forward while with the CBS the sound stage seems to be more laid back or maybe deeper.

Certainly a completely different listening experience with each of these tubes, which surprises me actually. I would say so far my order of preferences would be:
1) CBS/Hytron Brown Base 5692 for over all musicality and deeper low end
2) Sylvania Bad Boys for open airiness and vocal range detail
3) RCA Gray Glass VT-231 for over all inviting sounding and musicality
4) The original Russian tubes provided with the Audio Mirror amplifiers, just an overall good performer
5) The Sylvania later generation NOS, a tad overly bright, while detailed not quite as musical to my ears

Obviously with more listening and break in this may change, but these are my first over all impressions... interesting seeing how different NOS tubes actually sound with my gear.

**Randy Myers** · January 31, 2019, 05:57 PM

Lots of 6SN7 tubes in use in my system now

... so here is how it is all playing out. The RCA Gray Glass did not work well in the preamplifier. Noisy and thin sounding, however they work very well in the Dennis Had headphone amp. No issues with noise and nice and full sounding. What works well in the preamp is the Sylvania Bad Boys in the voltage gain stage and the CBS Brown Base in the output stage. The Black Treasure CV-181z work very well in the Audio Mirror amps. They sound pretty amazing!

**Alrainbow** · January 31, 2019, 09:49 PM

It's tough to find a good driver and 6sn7 GTb is even harder
I have two I don't see listed here.
One is Marconi 6sn7gtb very neural
the oither needs a adaptor for me it's the best of th dual drivers
it is called by a few names
one is VT99. Another is 6f8g.

**Alrainbow** · January 31, 2019, 10:09 PM

Ok can't upload pics lol.
Anyway has anyone used any set drivers
Some of them thst I have tried are
vt94a
L63
VT229
VT229
you need an adaptor tonuse these it allows the use of two of these to be as one 6sn7 type dual triode. A bud turned me onto them. The tubes are mostly cheap since the world now uses dual and not single.

**Alrainbow** · January 31, 2019, 10:10 PM

**Alrainbow** · January 31, 2019, 10:11 PM

**Randy Myers** · February 1, 2019, 01:28 AM

The Black Treasures are the driver tubes in the Audio Mirror amps. Very nice indeed and Vlad suggested them to me. He told me he felt they were the best driver tube match for his amplifiers.

**wisnon** · February 1, 2019, 05:07 AM

VT-99 is a great tube. The Phillips brand are quite good.

**Randy Myers** · February 1, 2019, 09:02 AM

I do have the Phillips Rectifier in the Dennis Had Dragon Inspire and the 6sl7's input tubes for the Audio Mirror are also a NOS Phillips.

**Randy Myers** · June 10, 2019, 02:20 AM

Now that I am sticking with the Audio Mirror amps I decided to do some rolling again.

The 1952 Sylvania Chrome Dome are very detailed, maybe even a tad too much. They produce a very forward image (which really surprises me). Excellent impact... maybe a tad too much in your face for my taste.

The 1956 CBS 5692 Brown Base are very nice. Inviting and musical in every way. They draw me into the music much more so then the Sylvania's.

The Black Treasures are a bit over-sized and because the porcelain base is bigger they do not fit snug to the tube connector because there are chassis nuts that interfere. Vlad says this is not an issue, they are making plenty enough contact. They are pretty amazing in every way. Everything I like about the CBS is brought to an even higher level.

I had a pair of RCA Gray Glass VT231 and have tried a couple others. The RCA ended up being a little noisy, but very nice image! Anything else worth considering?

**Alrainbow** · June 10, 2019, 12:21 PM

https://www.google.com/search?q=vt99...Hd1C_yZ83n7nM:
of the best 6sn7 I own. Yes ugly but very good
hyper detailed but slightly warm to hide it a bit
i use them in two head headphone amps
also low noise floor and slightly less gain then some 6sn7 tubes
to get better I need to go to SET Versions of 6sn7 they need dual adaptors to use two in one socket on amp or premap.

**Randy Myers** · June 11, 2019, 02:57 PM

Thank you... I have been a bit concerned with using adapters. Afraid that I will get the incorrect one and end up damaging my amp or something

....

**jadedavid** · June 12, 2019, 01:19 PM

Now if you really want to go off the deep end you can replace the 6SL7's by using a 7F7 & an adapter.
Dick Olsher really likes the "7" series of Loktal tubes.

Thread: Suggestions for 6SN7 Tubes

Suggestions for 6SN7 Tubes

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