Welcome to the AudioShark Forums.
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 51
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,719

    Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    I just added the Tube Active Stage to my Hattor passive pre-amplifier. It uses two 12au7 tubes from JAN Phillips. Any suggestions if I wanted to get better tubes? Will it be a noticeable improvement? I am a fan of Gold Lion tubes, would these ge a good choice or better to find a NOS tube?

    Thanks for the opinions.
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; HeadAmp; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  2. #2

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    I just added the Tube Active Stage to my Hattor passive pre-amplifier. It uses two 12au7 tubes from JAN Phillips. Any suggestions if I wanted to get better tubes? Will it be a noticeable improvement? I am a fan of Gold Lion tubes, would these ge a good choice or better to find a NOS tube?

    Thanks for the opinions.
    NOS Mullards. Then there is the rest. There will be talks of 1950ís Amperex (Holland), there will be Telefunken, Bugle Boy, mentioned but Mullard are the most musical and balanced top to bottom with a glorious midrange. With purchasing NOS from unknown sources, you never really know what you are getting though. Gold Lion is a fine tube if you canít or donít want to hunt for them.
    Serge

  3. #3

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    NOS Mullards. Then there is the rest. There will be talks of 1950ís Amperex (Holland), there will be Telefunken, Bugle Boy, mentioned but Mullard are the most musical and balanced top to bottom with a glorious midrange. With purchasing NOS from unknown sources, you never really know what you are getting though. Gold Lion is a fine tube if you canít or donít want to hunt for them.
    I used to collect 12AU7 tubes and I still have my tube caddy which has lots of 12AU7 tubes both NOS and slightly used. I managed to acquire some NOS Mullard CV4003 tubes which are really cool. They are the military grade version of the 12AU7. I love the way they are packaged with the heavy paper and the pin protector. I have the rest of the usual suspects too. Telefunken, Amperex Bugle Boys, etc. One of my personal favorite 12AU7 tubes is the RCA clear top version.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,719

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Thanks for the input. Doing a little research I do see several mentions of RCA clear tops. If I am recalling correct they were not crazy expensive either. Upscale has some Brimar NOS tubes that he is promoting as the latest find also.

    I know Gold Lions are a safe bet also. Every one of these I have previous tried in various pieces I thought were good.

    Do you believe that these would be an improvement over the JAN Phillips that Arek included with the Tube Stage? He also has a spring loaded cap over the tubes. It appears that most of these are the same size so should work with these caps also. Do you concur?
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; HeadAmp; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  5. #5

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Are you talking about real Gold Lion tubes or Sovtek Gold Lion tubes?
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,719

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    The current manufactured ones (Genalex, which are manufactured by Sovtek, right?), not NOS. Not sure I have ever seen Gold Lion NOS tubes .
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; HeadAmp; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Palm Coast, FL 'The Hammock'
    Posts
    4,353

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    So what are you not liking about the tubes you have,

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,719

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Quote Originally Posted by CPP View Post
    So what are you not liking about the tubes you have,
    Actually so far they sound good. Just wondering if an upgrade better tube would make the active stage even better .

    I am actually listening to the pre-amp in passive mode now which I think is every good for low level listening.
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; HeadAmp; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  9. #9

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    The tubes you are talking about are Sovtek made in Russia. I have never heard their version of the 12AU7. The RCA clear tops used to be a steal. I donít know what NOS prices are bringing now days.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

  10. #10

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Just checked on EBay. $54.99 for a matched pair NOS.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,719

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    I am a noob with tube stuff. Yes I have dipped my toes in before with the Audio Mirror and other amps, and an Audio Research hybrid pre and a couple others, but the tube world is pretty open so I do try to learn when I can . I have definitely had better experiences with the tube pre-amplifiers than amplifiers for sure.

    A quick question if you guys don't mind. What is the advantage, or is there one to the spring loaded caps that cover the tubes. These are on the tubes in this active stage. Is it better to leave them on or take them off? I assume they are not just for shipping, or are they?

    Arek has the top on the unit, which is just a nice solid piece of aluminum that is held on with four screws. I assume it probably makes no difference if it is on or off. In my rack it would not have any exposure or risk with the top off. Would it be better for cooling to have the top off? I know on his website he always shows the piece with the top off, but I assume this is mainly to illustrate what is inside.

    Thanks again for the input!
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; HeadAmp; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  12. #12

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Iím not sure what you are talking about with the spring loaded caps. Can you take a picture? As for the top cover, is it ventilated? If it is, I wouldnít worry about taking it off. A pair of 12AU7s arenít going to be generating a bunch of heat.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,719

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Iím not sure what you are talking about with the spring loaded caps. Can you take a picture? As for the top cover, is it ventilated? If it is, I wouldnít worry about taking it off. A pair of 12AU7s arenít going to be generating a bunch of heat.
    It is just a solid top.

    Researching a little on the caps (I'm sure my term is wrong) it appears as if they are really mainly for restraining the tubes. Probably does not hurt on or off, but I certainly could see how these might be important for shipping.

    Here is a photo off of Hattor's website, easier than taking cover off to get a photo :
    tube_07.jpg
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; HeadAmp; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  14. #14

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Those are tube shields to reduce hum. If the designers felt they needed them, I would certainly use them.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    west Michigan
    Posts
    545

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    They are both shields, as MEP stated, but are also intended to reduce microphonics.
    Rolling tubes allows you to "color" the sound to your liking. (within limits)
    The prices of 12ZU7's are not crazy and therefore you might benefit from trying several different pairs.
    You can always resell those that don't make the grade.
    For a clean sound, it's hard to beat 7316's, however they are pricey.
    A pair of RCA's and a pair of GL"s should do you well.
    Have fun with it.
    My System:
    Lumin A-1
    Joule Electra LA150 Signature Plus
    Pass XA30.5
    Von Schweikert VR4Jr MkIII Anniversary
    18" Open Baffle Subs
    Cables: Teo Audio, Cerious Tech, Fusion Audio.
    Two dedicated 20 Amp circuits. Shunyata Hydra. EP2050
    DIY bass traps and custom curved diffusors.

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,719

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Thanks for all the input guys. Very much appreciated!
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; HeadAmp; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    west Michigan
    Posts
    545

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Sorry Randy for a typo.
    I meant 12AU7 not 12ZU7
    My System:
    Lumin A-1
    Joule Electra LA150 Signature Plus
    Pass XA30.5
    Von Schweikert VR4Jr MkIII Anniversary
    18" Open Baffle Subs
    Cables: Teo Audio, Cerious Tech, Fusion Audio.
    Two dedicated 20 Amp circuits. Shunyata Hydra. EP2050
    DIY bass traps and custom curved diffusors.

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,719

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Hehe, no worries . I knew that is what you meant.
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; HeadAmp; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  19. #19

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Telefunken smooth plates will get you a fabulous midrange at the expense of losing a bit of high frequency extension. Amperex Bugal Boys will get you strong bass and an extended top end. Good luck.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    3,037

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Randy

    What are the date codes on those military Philips tubes as they may be better than you think. Philips owned multiple tube factories in the US and EU and produced tubes under various names depending on their country of origin. If it came from one of their factories then the date of build and the factory code are more important than the brand name on the tube.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Nuprime CDT-8, Auralic Aries G1, Aqua La Voce S3, Supratek Chardonnay, PS Audio BHK 250, Verity Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC's & PC's, Triode Wire Lab SC, PC's & USB , PS Audio Stellar P3, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Teac NT505, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

    Greenville, SC- Marantz HD-CD1, Auralic Aries G1, PSA Directstream Sr., Don Sachs Model 2, Van Alstine Vision SET 400, Reynaud Abscisse Jubilee, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Audio Envy IC's and SC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line.

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,719

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Hey Jack, honest I am not sure. I would have to pull them and look.

    I have a feeling that Arek includes top notch tubes because he tends to use very high level parts. They do sound very good and a huge upgrade to his already amazing preamp. It is hard to compare to other preamps I have had because other pieces are different. I can say that I have never been as thrilled with another pre as I am with this one!
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; HeadAmp; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    3,037

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    The Dutch Phillips conglomerate owned over a half dozen well known tube companies and factories including Mullard, Amperex, Valvo and others. As long as the factories were still operational and for a while afterwards the tubes from those factories retained their original names. After they had been closed for a while the remaining stock was many times re-branded as Phillips and you had to look for the identifying factories codes or characteristics. While a lot of the JAN tubes were made in the US plant some of them were from the EU factories.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Nuprime CDT-8, Auralic Aries G1, Aqua La Voce S3, Supratek Chardonnay, PS Audio BHK 250, Verity Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC's & PC's, Triode Wire Lab SC, PC's & USB , PS Audio Stellar P3, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Teac NT505, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

    Greenville, SC- Marantz HD-CD1, Auralic Aries G1, PSA Directstream Sr., Don Sachs Model 2, Van Alstine Vision SET 400, Reynaud Abscisse Jubilee, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Audio Envy IC's and SC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line.

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,719

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Ahhh... I feel like such a tube noob... But it is fun. The active stage is really nice. So much air and sound stage. Dynamics are far better. I hooked up the vintage McIntosh the other day and I swear I could see the old girl smiling .
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; HeadAmp; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    3,037

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    That's great. A couple of weeks ago I picked up a six weeks old sample of Don Sachs' latest version of his Model 2 preamp that uses the same 64 step Khozma attenuator as your Hattor. Didn't need it but the price was right and I wanted to compare it to my Supratek which is also 6SN7 based. So far so good once I found the right set of input tubes. Even though same tubes different voicing. Can see the similarities between Arek and EJ's volume control. If you want to try a couple of different tubes let me know as there is a vendor on Ebay that fully tests and grades his 12AU7's and though they are not the exotic EU brands they are solid tubes.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Nuprime CDT-8, Auralic Aries G1, Aqua La Voce S3, Supratek Chardonnay, PS Audio BHK 250, Verity Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC's & PC's, Triode Wire Lab SC, PC's & USB , PS Audio Stellar P3, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Teac NT505, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

    Greenville, SC- Marantz HD-CD1, Auralic Aries G1, PSA Directstream Sr., Don Sachs Model 2, Van Alstine Vision SET 400, Reynaud Abscisse Jubilee, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Audio Envy IC's and SC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line.

  25. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,719

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    I will, and thank you Jack. Much appreciated.

    Just received an AT 700 series cartridge to mount up on the Technics as an alternative. Always loved Signet/AT cartridges. The Rega is the main but the new Technics is fun and what a motor. Just fun playing around...

    If I ever want to try a MC will try a Denon, but as it is now the Technics phono stage is very serviceable with MM cartridges.
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; HeadAmp; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  26. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    3,037

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Randy

    I've got more vintage cartridges and NOS styli from that era laying around here than I know what to do with along with TT's including Technics. If we go through with the permanent move to SC next year I've got a pile of that stuff that will have to find new homes.

    As to the tubes for the Hattor there is no "best" 12AU7. There is only what works best to your ears in that particular circuit. I've got tubes I loved in one piece of gear that were meh in the next one so it's all trial and error. When I got the Sachs it was equipped by the builder with the "newest all the rage" Psvane tubes which don't do much for me so I went to tubes that sounded great in the Supratek. Well they didn't sound that way in the Sachs circuit so it was trial and error until I found the ones that did. So if you think Arek put the tubes in that he thought sounded best and not the new production stuff then leave it be.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Nuprime CDT-8, Auralic Aries G1, Aqua La Voce S3, Supratek Chardonnay, PS Audio BHK 250, Verity Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC's & PC's, Triode Wire Lab SC, PC's & USB , PS Audio Stellar P3, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Teac NT505, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

    Greenville, SC- Marantz HD-CD1, Auralic Aries G1, PSA Directstream Sr., Don Sachs Model 2, Van Alstine Vision SET 400, Reynaud Abscisse Jubilee, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Audio Envy IC's and SC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line.

  27. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    691

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    That's great. A couple of weeks ago I picked up a six weeks old sample of Don Sachs' latest version of his Model 2 preamp that uses the same 64 step Khozma attenuator as your Hattor. Didn't need it but the price was right and I wanted to compare it to my Supratek which is also 6SN7 based. So far so good once I found the right set of input tubes. Even though same tubes different voicing. Can see the similarities between Arek and EJ's volume control. If you want to try a couple of different tubes let me know as there is a vendor on Ebay that fully tests and grades his 12AU7's and though they are not the exotic EU brands they are solid tubes.
    A saw a bunch of DS pre off-late offered for sale. Not sure what folks are upgrading to as I thought this pre is pretty good. How do you compare it to the Supratek ? I am thinking Supratek DHT or a passive pre.

  28. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    3,037

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Dev.

    I'm only aware of two of them for sale lately. One is an older model with the individual gain controls and the second one that I now have sold twice in six weeks. The original owner downsized to an integrated and the second owner stayed with his Pass preamp at four times the cost. The Sachs is a pretty damn good preamp but you would need to be committed to SE amps only. The Supratek preamps are more flexible in that they are like the BHK fully balanced with SE outputs too. But just like with the BHK if you use a SE amp you will need to lift the ground on the amp. As to the comparison they have different voicing even with the same tube. To my ears the Supratek is more "classic" old school tube sound while the Sachs is a more "modern" tube sound though they are both more "tube sounding" than the hybrid BHK both because they are tube rectified and because of the 6SN7 tube as opposed to the 12AU7. I only personally have three days of listening to the Sachs with the Vision SET 400 and am still trying to find the "right" tube match from the same five NOS finalists I ended up with for the Supratek where the Raytheon VT-231 won. So far I have tried the Sylvania VT-231, the RCA Graphite glass VT-231 and today the Raytheon. Still have to try the Hytron 5692 and the Ken-Rad VT-231. Based on my experience with these five sets of tubes I think the RCA is going to win out in this preamp instead of the Raytheon due to the "voicing" difference. That may also change when I swap amps to the Kinki EX-M7. I have yet to even take the Psvane WE's that ship with the Sachs out of their boxes as I wanted to stick with tubes I was familiar with already. With the Supratek's you still have the adjustable gain of from 0-25db and with this newest version of the Sachs it is fixed at 18db so that may be a factor if your amp is already a fixed choice. If you are looking at the Supratek I personally would stick with the Chardonnay or the Cabernet but that's me plus Mick prefers the 6SN7 preamps and is what he uses in his personal system. For passives I like the Stage 2 STP-SE.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Nuprime CDT-8, Auralic Aries G1, Aqua La Voce S3, Supratek Chardonnay, PS Audio BHK 250, Verity Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC's & PC's, Triode Wire Lab SC, PC's & USB , PS Audio Stellar P3, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Teac NT505, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

    Greenville, SC- Marantz HD-CD1, Auralic Aries G1, PSA Directstream Sr., Don Sachs Model 2, Van Alstine Vision SET 400, Reynaud Abscisse Jubilee, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Audio Envy IC's and SC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line.

  29. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    691

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Dev.

    I'm only aware of two of them for sale lately. One is an older model with the individual gain controls and the second one that I now have sold twice in six weeks. The original owner downsized to an integrated and the second owner stayed with his Pass preamp at four times the cost. The Sachs is a pretty damn good preamp but you would need to be committed to SE amps only. The Supratek preamps are more flexible in that they are like the BHK fully balanced with SE outputs too. But just like with the BHK if you use a SE amp you will need to lift the ground on the amp. As to the comparison they have different voicing even with the same tube. To my ears the Supratek is more "classic" old school tube sound while the Sachs is a more "modern" tube sound though they are both more "tube sounding" than the hybrid BHK both because they are tube rectified and because of the 6SN7 tube as opposed to the 12AU7. I only personally have three days of listening to the Sachs with the Vision SET 400 and am still trying to find the "right" tube match from the same five NOS finalists I ended up with for the Supratek where the Raytheon VT-231 won. So far I have tried the Sylvania VT-231, the RCA Graphite glass VT-231 and today the Raytheon. Still have to try the Hytron 5692 and the Ken-Rad VT-231. Based on my experience with these five sets of tubes I think the RCA is going to win out in this preamp instead of the Raytheon due to the "voicing" difference. That may also change when I swap amps to the Kinki EX-M7. I have yet to even take the Psvane WE's that ship with the Sachs out of their boxes as I wanted to stick with tubes I was familiar with already. With the Supratek's you still have the adjustable gain of from 0-25db and with this newest version of the Sachs it is fixed at 18db so that may be a factor if your amp is already a fixed choice. If you are looking at the Supratek I personally would stick with the Chardonnay or the Cabernet but that's me plus Mick prefers the 6SN7 preamps and is what he uses in his personal system. For passives I like the Stage 2 STP-SE.
    Thanks Jack. I am still trying to decide the Pre for the SIT-3. I forgot, the LTA Microzotl is in my list as well and there is a bunch of folks who pair it with the Pass amp and has been happy. If I get the the Supratek, I want to get the Cabernet Dual but the wait time seems more than 3 months now. For the passive pre, I had the STP-SE (not the stage 2) a while back but that was in a completely different system than what I have now. I have Dave Slagle autofomer on loan and I am smitten by it - the silver wound will be stupidly good. With this Pre, a pair of 300B amp is what I think will make some magic, though the FW is no slouch.

  30. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    3,037

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Yes I think all of the talk on the other forum has put Mick into serious back log again for orders even if he wasn't having trouble getting parts which he is. I was e-mailing him earlier about something and he seemed like he was pretty stretched out. If you think the Cube's are something you are going to stick with have you thought about something simpler like a Viva integrated? Finale in Canada is another option and Paul knows and has had dealings with them.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Nuprime CDT-8, Auralic Aries G1, Aqua La Voce S3, Supratek Chardonnay, PS Audio BHK 250, Verity Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC's & PC's, Triode Wire Lab SC, PC's & USB , PS Audio Stellar P3, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Teac NT505, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

    Greenville, SC- Marantz HD-CD1, Auralic Aries G1, PSA Directstream Sr., Don Sachs Model 2, Van Alstine Vision SET 400, Reynaud Abscisse Jubilee, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Audio Envy IC's and SC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line.

  31. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    691

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    I have not thought about Viva. Any idea what's the price on it ?

    I did talk on Finale for their 2A3 integrated with Hasimoto trans but they don't seem to have a remote option. They are purist and so they won't add a remote, no matter what.

    The Tektrons are another option.

  32. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    3,037

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    It appears that Viva prices are a pretty guarded secret so I guess you need to call Mike as he's one of only three dealers in the US. I'm sure there are plenty of options but not an arena I've ever played in
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Nuprime CDT-8, Auralic Aries G1, Aqua La Voce S3, Supratek Chardonnay, PS Audio BHK 250, Verity Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC's & PC's, Triode Wire Lab SC, PC's & USB , PS Audio Stellar P3, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Teac NT505, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

    Greenville, SC- Marantz HD-CD1, Auralic Aries G1, PSA Directstream Sr., Don Sachs Model 2, Van Alstine Vision SET 400, Reynaud Abscisse Jubilee, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Audio Envy IC's and SC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line.

  33. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,719

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Quote Originally Posted by Devg View Post
    Thanks Jack. I am still trying to decide the Pre for the SIT-3. I forgot, the LTA Microzotl is in my list as well and there is a bunch of folks who pair it with the Pass amp and has been happy. If I get the the Supratek, I want to get the Cabernet Dual but the wait time seems more than 3 months now. For the passive pre, I had the STP-SE (not the stage 2) a while back but that was in a completely different system than what I have now. I have Dave Slagle autofomer on loan and I am smitten by it - the silver wound will be stupidly good. With this Pre, a pair of 300B amp is what I think will make some magic, though the FW is no slouch.
    The Stage 2 is a whole other level from the standard model. However the Wyred probably can't be rated as pure passive since it does have a buffer.

    The Hattor (subject of this thread) is actually quite a good pure passive preamp. The optional Tube Stage gives you the option of running it in passive mode or active. The passive is great but the active stage just gives it something extra special. Don't let the price fool you, with the active stage it is about the same price as the Stage 2. Both play way above their price range.
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; HeadAmp; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  34. #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    691

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    sorry for taking this thread out of context. Yes, I am very well aware of Hattor and I communicated to Arek couple of years back. I would love to try the Khozmo at some point.

  35. #35
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,719

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Nah.. no worries at all... I was just justifying re-mentioning Hattor .... Arek seems to be a very good guy and definitely prides himself on using top quality parts!
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; HeadAmp; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  36. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,719

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    So I did end up ordering a pair of those RCA clear tops. They are cheap enough to give them a try .

    I am fairly certain that the tubes Arek includes are new, not NOS. They sound good but gonna have fun rolling in the RCA.

    I will probably leave the top and the tube shields off. Arek said it should not make any difference using it that way.

    I tell you though, the Tube Stage really adds a huge amount to the pre-amp.
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; HeadAmp; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  37. #37
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    691

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    I tell you though, the Tube Stage really adds a huge amount to the pre-amp.
    I am curious what you mean by this ? Many wants the preamp to be invisible in the system, while some wants to add more coloration.

  38. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,719

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    In my view it added a bit more openness and air, but mostly it added more dynamics. The main complaint on passive pre-amps is that while invisible they some times are dry and lack dynamics. While I felt the Hattor in passive mode is very good but when used with certain music may not be as dynamic as I would want. The Tube Stage definitely helps in this regards. It does also add a little of the tube warmth and inviting sound. A little of the tube colorization. Being that it still uses the full passive unit which in turns hands it off to the Active Stage this tubeness is fairly minimal. Also only using two 12au7 tubes it certainly is not a "tube" pre-amplifier. Also, and very importantly the unit can be used either passive or active with a flip of a switch. Some music is better in passive mode, especially if it is not particularly dynamic music, while other in enhanced with the active stage. I hope that I explained it in a manner that is understandable.

    Here is how Arek described it: "Sound is more relaxed, pleasure to listen bad recordings, more dynamic with deeper bass.
    Im not a jurnalist so hard to describe. In fact it will be an active preamp."

    The bottom line is you pretty much hit the nail on the head, "Many wants the preamp to be invisible in the system, while some wants to add more coloration.", although the tube color is much more minimal then other tube or hybrid pre-amps I have heard. Passive mode pretty much makes it invisible.
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; HeadAmp; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  39. #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    691

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Ok, got it. Thanks for the explanation. I think the notion of passive pre being "dry and lack dynamics" has mostly to do with the source output driving the amp. Not all system benefits from passive pre. I have heard systems where an active pre destroyed the sound, irrespective of the recording. Conversely, an active pre is far more versatile, can sound extremely good and more flexible in an audiophile's ever changing environment

    One thing that I would like Arek to do is to combine the passive and active stage into a single chassis. It avoids signal passing through those additional connectors and extra pair of interconnects. The more you avoid them, the better.

  40. #40
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,719

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    He does offer a SS Active Stage as an option with "The Big" pre, but the Tube is external. The Tube Active Stage costs as much as the top AMRG Trans passive pre itself . To me the only consideration was the Tube Stage; I had no desire for the solid state Active Stage at all.

    But I agree, it would be nice to have them in one unit. I do like that he sends them both in flight cases and he makes sure that the Tube Stage cosmetically matches the pre that you have since he offers many different cosmetic combos.
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; HeadAmp; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  41. #41
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,719

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    I did get a set of the NOS RCA clear tops. So far they are a very nice tube. But I also believe they need so more break in. I am also considering a set of NOS Mullards, or a set of CBS-Hytron tubes. Thought it might be nice to have some flavor.
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; HeadAmp; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  42. #42
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,719

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Ok, please give opinions and whihc one you believe are a better choice.

    Thank you.

    Matched Pair Mullard NOS/NIB 12AU7/ECC82 short plates tubes - Blackburn 1961

    0r

    Matched Pair CBS-Hytron JHY-5814/12au7/ECC82 black plates tubes - 1957

    I have had CBS-Hytron tubes in an amplifier and liked them, but this is a different type of tube altogether.
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; HeadAmp; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  43. #43
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    3,037

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Depends on who you're buying from. Hytrons are generally a neutral tube and Mullard's warmer.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Nuprime CDT-8, Auralic Aries G1, Aqua La Voce S3, Supratek Chardonnay, PS Audio BHK 250, Verity Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC's & PC's, Triode Wire Lab SC, PC's & USB , PS Audio Stellar P3, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Teac NT505, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

    Greenville, SC- Marantz HD-CD1, Auralic Aries G1, PSA Directstream Sr., Don Sachs Model 2, Van Alstine Vision SET 400, Reynaud Abscisse Jubilee, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Audio Envy IC's and SC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line.

  44. #44
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,719

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Hey Jack, thanks for the opinion.

    Both are from the same guy I got the RCA's from. Seems like a straight shooter. The RCA's where packed well and arrived fairly quickly.

    The CBS's are well tested used while the Mullard's are new in box. The Mullard's are $10 more.
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; HeadAmp; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  45. #45
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,719

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Hey Jack,

    I just heard back from Nikolay, the seller. He said very similar things as you comparing the two. He described the Mullard as warmer and the CBS as a bit more dynamic. This is what I remember from the CBS I had previously (different tube but hoping for same family sound).

    I think I will probably grab these. He seems like an excellent seller.
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; HeadAmp; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  46. #46
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,719

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    The CBS-Hytrons are really really good. The RCA NOS Clear Tops are very nice but the CBS takes it to another level of musicality!
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; HeadAmp; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  47. #47
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    33

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Randy - My Raven Osprey Integrated has 3 preamp stages (or Rows, if you will). Rows 1 and 2 are 12AT7 types, and Row 3 is 12AU7 or equivalent. I have tried (5) tubes in Row 3, and my favorites are (best first): 1. GE 12AU7 Green Print Ladder Plate - horseshoe getter, 2. CBS Hytron, 3. CBS GM 1950s Shiny Black Plate, 4. RCA 12AU7 1950s Black Plate, 5. Mullard CV-4003. The GE Green Print is crystal clear, clean, nice dynamics, mids, tight bass, beautiful tube.

    Dave at Raven is a tube nut, and he has a lot of his impressions and details at the Ravenaudio website. Click on Community, and go down to Daves Dozen for some great info. He normally sells tubes to customers only, but you might talk him into something - really nice guy.
    Studio/Study:
    HTPC or Mojo Audio Deja Vu Universal Music Server > or Oppo BDP-105D > Mojo Audio Mystique Evo Dac > Raven Audio Osprey Integrated Tube Amp > Harbeth P3ESR

    Main Listening Rig:
    Steiger Dynamics Maven Pure HTPC or McIntosh MVP-901 Universal Player > T+A PDP3000HV Transport/DAC > T+A PA3100HV Integrated Amp > JM Reynaud Orfeo Jubilee

    Home Theater:
    Xfinity Cable Box or McIntosh MVP901 Media Player > McIntosh C2300 Preamp > McIntosh MC302 Amp or VAC Sigma 160iSE Integrated Amp > Harbeth M30.1

  48. #48
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,719

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    Thank you the input Scotty, much appreciated. I am going to hold tight for a little while since I recently purchased the Tube Active Stage for my Hattor and have picked up a couple nice pair of NOS tubes. The RCA's are wonderful but to my ear the 1957 CBS-Hytron are simply fabulous. I even put the tube shields on them and button the top back up this morning. If I get the hankering down the road I can pop the top off and put the RCA's back in.
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; HeadAmp; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  49. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    321

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    The JAN Philips 12AU7(ecc82) work nice with my Jadis DA 50 - I like them better than f.e. Telefunken NOS.

    The JAN Philips tubes sound more direct (foreground) and that's what I like.

    Other tubes sound more smooth/soft and more in the background - it's what you prefer.

    And I like to use the S4A 6550 on classical but change to the Sovteks on rock - for a more direct sound.
    hifi:
    power: Audioplan Powerstar, Audioplan Finefilter, Audioplan Powerplant, Powercord
    tube amp: Jadis DA 50 Signature RC, Line Magnetic 508ia
    speaker: Living Voice Avatar 2
    turntable: Pro-Ject Xtension 10 + Ortofon Quintet Black MC
    phono stage: Remton 383 MKII
    cables: Audioplan Musicable bic 7a, Profigold, Wilbrand

    home-cinema: Sony blu-ray, Yamaha rx v2700, Heco Metas 700 (4x), Heco center

  50. #50
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nipomo, CA
    Posts
    4,719

    Re: Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

    The JAN Philips seem like a good choice and with cost consideration I am not surprised that Arek choose these as his standard tube. I like the CBS and the RCA both a bit better. I do find that both have a very slight high freq edge compared to my preference, but both over all are wonderful. I have a pair of new Gold Lions coming to try out. I have really liked the Gold Lions in other tubes I have had. I may have to find some Mullard if I need it tamed a tad more. We will see.
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; HeadAmp; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
AudioShark - The Best High End Audio Discussion forum.

AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.

The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.

At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.

We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!

Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com

Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.

Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team

Opinions on tubes for my Hattor

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •