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  1. #1
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    Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Hello,

    So, as most know I'm thinking of putting together another audio system. I'm attempting to think thru it during the COVID situation, so I know what to listen to when I go listening/shopping.

    What is the rest of the system?

    So far it looks like Magico (M3) vs Wilson (Alexia 2 or Alexx) and dCS (Vivaldi stack) vs MSB (Ref or Select II). Aurender W20SE and a ACS10/ 24GB.

    Pass Amps (X260.8 vs X600.8) and Pass Preamps (XP-32 and XP-27), unless when I listen to the T+A HV series I do a complete turn around ... (I love Pass, but I've heard great things about T+A)

    Shunyata Everest with Shunyata cabling as well.

    These are the finalists so far - and don't need to be discussed.

    The Problem

    But, I have a serious problem - wish they were all like this one. My wife has been asking me when I'm getting a turntable. I told her as soon as she buys me some records...

    Turntable Ideas

    So, in the 50K range or so what would be your favorite turntable and why?

    Just to let you know, I'm not interested in VPI at all. However, TechDAS and Kuzma both come to mind. But I'm sure there are a few others that would work very well too.

    So, what turntable, tonearm, and cartridge(s) would you consider in 50K range (I may stretch it a little for the right sound ...)?

    Have fun. Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    well i am not sure about the price and am not a turntable guy myself but had a listen to Clear Audio Master Innovation with the PU being Goldfinger Statement
    And that was really good.
    But i am sure that someone here has a much better take on these things , than i do
    Flemming

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  3. #3
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Does your budget of $50k include or exclude Phonostage, phono cables?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  4. #4
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    Which TurnTable - 50K range?



    Kuzma Stabi R with Kuzma 4 point 11 inch arm, MySonicLabs Ultra Eminent Cart, Pass XP27 (shown above).

    We sell both TechDAS along with Kuzma. The TechDAS Air Force V with a Graham arm would be another option, but you are dealing with vacuum hold down.

    Last but not least, the AVID Acutus with an SME V 12 inch and the MySonicLabs Ultra Eminent cart is another great option. Shown below.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  5. #5
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Does your budget of $50k include or exclude Phonostage, phono cables?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Thanks for the question. The est budget is just for the turntable, arm, and cartridge. The cables are a separate budget and included in the Shunyata budget. The XP-27 is in the Pass budget, etc.

  6. #6
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post


    Kuzma Stabi R with Kuzma 4 point 11 inch arm, MySonicLabs Ultra Eminent Cart, Pass XP27 (shown above).

    We sell both TechDAS along with Kuzma. The TechDAS Air Force V with a Graham arm would be another option, but you are dealing with vacuum hold down.

    Last but not least, the AVID Acutus with an SME V 12 inch and the MySonicLabs Ultra Eminent cart is another great option. Shown below.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Many thanks. I'll have to research both of these.

  7. #7
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    We have the SME 20/3 with Series V tonearm and Ortofon Cadenza Black for our reference turntable setup. It's not all the way up at $50k, but you could go for the 30/12 and a Ortofon MC Anna to get it there.
    Neko Audio
    Authorized Dealer: AC Infinity, APC, Audeze, Bryston, Devialet, Elite HTS, Fortress Seating, JMF Audio, JVC, Kaleidescape, LG, LUMIN, Magico, Ortofon, RME, Samsung, Soulution, STAX, Trinnov, Vivid Audio, Weiss & more.

  8. #8
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by NekoAudio View Post
    We have the SME 20/3 with Series V tonearm and Ortofon Cadenza Black for our reference turntable setup. It's not all the way up at $50k, but you could go for the 30/12 and a Ortofon MC Anna to get it there.
    I'll check out both of these. Many thanks.

  9. #9
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    if you want the best and are willing to strech....
    kronos pro turntable with black beauty tonearm and the super capacitor costs 60k listprice....plus the cartridge

  10. #10
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by u-sound View Post
    if you want the best and are willing to strech....
    kronos pro turntable with black beauty tonearm and the super capacitor costs 60k listprice....plus the cartridge
    Thanks. I put on the list to review, but it's probably a little too expensive. But it doesn't hurt to look - well on the other hand it might.

  11. #11
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calvin View Post
    Thanks. I put on the list to review, but it's probably a little too expensive. But it doesn't hurt to look - well on the other hand it might.
    I own/sell the Kronos Pro table. It’s pricey. You’re going to be well beyond your budget. The Kuzma/AVID are the safe/smart choices. The AF V is definitely great too.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  12. #12
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Calvin,

    this is a subject i know well, as i have 3 turntables around $50k, all of which i do strongly recommend. but the whole tt/arm/cart packages for each exceeds $50k....list price. my guess is that each could be actually acquired with good arm and good cartridge for in the neighborhood of $50k out-of-pocket one way of another, so i will list them. pictures can be seen on my system link below.

    my Wave Kinetics NVS direct-drive is $45k list price including it's own decoupling shelf. i have 2 Durand Telos tonearms mounted right now, and a Clearaudio GFS cartridge on one, a Miyajima mono cart on the other.

    my Saskia model two idler turntable lists at $54k, it has a Durand Tosca tonearm and an Etsuro Gold cartridge.

    my CS Port LFT1 air bearing belt drive turntable lists at $57k including air bearing linear tracking tone arm. it has an Etsuro Gold cartridge.

    as you can see i'm very serious about my turntables. for me to assist you more i'd need to know more about your tastes in music, and your listening culture. what is important to you and what do you expect from this top level turntable you are about to invest in? all of these are serious tools, and not necessarily mainstream choices. none of them were casually chosen.

    i also own an MSB Select II dac which is on your list.

  13. #13
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne View Post
    Calvin,

    this is a subject i know well, as i have 3 turntables around $50k, all of which i do strongly recommend. but the whole tt/arm/cart packages for each exceeds $50k....list price. my guess is that each could be actually acquired with good arm and good cartridge for in the neighborhood of $50k out-of-pocket one way of another, so i will list them. pictures can be seen on my system link below.

    my Wave Kinetics NVS direct-drive is $45k list price including it's own decoupling shelf. i have 2 Durand Telos tonearms mounted right now, and a Clearaudio GFS cartridge on one, a Miyajima mono cart on the other.

    my Saskia model two idler turntable lists at $54k, it has a Durand Tosca tonearm and an Etsuro Gold cartridge.

    my CS Port LFT1 air bearing belt drive turntable lists at $57k including air bearing linear tracking tone arm. it has an Etsuro Gold cartridge.

    as you can see i'm very serious about my turntables. for me to assist you more i'd need to know more about your tastes in music, and your listening culture. what is important to you and what do you expect from this top level turntable you are about to invest in? all of these are serious tools, and not necessarily mainstream choices. none of them were casually chosen.

    i also own an MSB Select II dac which is on your list.
    Mike, many thanks. Those sound like some wonderful systems. All I can say is WOW. And I read your MSB posts on another forum. That and in conversation with Mike are why they are in my list.

    I mostly enjoy female vocals - Krall, Monheit, Jacintha, Eeg, Kent, etc. I enjoy soft rock as well, but plan on using that primarily on streaming.

    I use to have a TT. I grew up with my dad’s and later bought one after college. At that time I only played rock. So, the above scenario may change (I’m going to at least listen to some).

    I desire something that’s very reliable. I do “not” have a dedicated room, rather this will be in a great room. But we have been discussing moving again (just moved last Thanksgiving ) and if we do then I will have a dedicated room.

    Many thanks for any more suggestions.

  14. #14
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Calvin, you probably know at that dollar, you still will need a phono, cables, record cleaning capability and isolation, that will tally upwards of double your budget.






    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Source Analog: Kuzma Stabi R w/4point 11 arm | Kuzma 50 Cartridge
    Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
    Amplification: Dan D’Agostino Momentum HD and M400’s | Boulder 508
    Speakers: Wilson Alexias
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    Power and Isolation: Audio-Ultra Home & Room Power Foundation Performance Package with StromTank S1000 | HRS









  15. #15
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by UltraFast69 View Post
    Calvin, you probably know at that dollar, you still will need a phono, cables, record cleaning capability and isolation, that will tally upwards of double your budget.






    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Well said.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by UltraFast69 View Post
    Calvin, you probably know at that dollar, you still will need a phono, cables, record cleaning capability and isolation, that will tally upwards of double your budget. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Yes, many thanks, however that is all in another budgets. If I decide to go this direction, a friend will give me two record cleaning machines (KLAUDIO KD-CLN-LP200 and one more but I don’t recall what it is) and some other items next time he’s in the states. The cables are in the Shunyata budget, the isolation is included in the rack price, etc. So, it all will be covered. Thanks though, I definitely don’t want to miss anything.

  17. #17

    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    If I were looking for a $50k TT, in addition to the sound, I would be looking at the aesthetic of the TT. In other words, at that price range I would also be looking at it as a piece of art. I can say the same about other components as well.

  18. #18
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    I'm not sure you can do better than TechDas AirForce III in this budget.
    Adam

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  19. #19

    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elberoth View Post
    I'm not sure you can do better than TechDas AirForce III in this budget.
    Nice! That one would qualify for a piece of art! (No idea how it sounds!)

  20. #20
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    If I were looking for a $50k TT, in addition to the sound, I would be looking at the aesthetic of the TT. In other words, at that price range I would also be looking at it as a piece of art. I can say the same about other components as well.
    Indeed, if I decide to go this way, the center piece of the entire system. The complete rack layout will take some thought. I will be going with Adona Rack though. Adona Audio Racks, Modular Audio Video Furniture and Isolation Platforms at Adona Corporation

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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elberoth View Post
    I'm not sure you can do better than TechDas AirForce III in this budget.
    Yes, Mike advised me about this one to. I haven’t researched it yet, but I did read about it’s bigger brother at app 400k or so earlier today. Just a tad over my budget.

  22. #22
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Just curious Joe,

    What is prompting such a huge over haul of your system? It seems like much of your choices are upgrades of your current pieces. Definitely will be one heck of a system for sure!

    I assume you will be planning a visit to your neighborhood Crack (err sorry, audio) dealer. I assume Mike would encourage you to compare the T+A to Pass .

    Congratulations... but most important, enjoy the journey, the search .
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

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  23. #23
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Technics SP10R with Thales Simplicity II tonearm and Lyra Atlas SL cart. you will have change to buy a tonearm cable and such.
    Source: Technics SP10mk3 - Thales Simplicity II, TW Raven AC-3 - Graham Phantom, SME 3012-R, Exclusive P3,,Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
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  24. #24
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    Just curious Joe,

    What is prompting such a huge over haul of your system? It seems like much of your choices are upgrades of your current pieces. Definitely will be one heck of a system for sure!

    I assume you will be planning a visit to your neighborhood Crack (err sorry, audio) dealer. I assume Mike would encourage you to compare the T+A to Pass .

    Congratulations... but most important, enjoy the journey, the search .
    Hi Randy,

    Thanks for your post. I purchased my present system knowing - or at least thinking - that I would do an upgrade rather quickly. I made Mike aware of this before I even made my present purchase.

    And yes, I will be hearing T+A and considering their HV amps, preamp, DAC, streamer and SACD. I've discussed this with Mike as well. I really like the Pass sound and wasn't even going to consider anything else until someone else shared their T+A HV experience with me. Apparently, you have T+A and are having a positive experience with it as well.

    This said, I'm going to take my time and as you said, enjoy the journey. It may take me a year or so to do all my listening. Then again it may be much sooner. I'll know it when I hear it.

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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by XV-1 View Post
    Technics SP10R with Thales Simplicity II tonearm and Lyra Atlas SL cart. you will have change to buy a tonearm cable and such.
    Thanks for your post. I'll check out the Technics SP10R.

  26. #26
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Hi Joe,
    Here's my suggestion:

    Get a Rega Planar 10, the cartridge of your choice, and call it a day.

    Use the remainder of the budget to take your wife on (several) nice trips abroad when it is safe again to do so.

    And, buy more LPs...

    Just my 2¢.

    Cheers, mate!

  27. #27

    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Clearaudio Master Innovation with arm TT2 or TTI MI.Which TurnTable - 50K range?Which TurnTable - 50K range?


    Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk

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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    I’ll add one more, Kuzma Stabi M. With the 4Point 11” arm is as good as it gets. Add a nice cartridge like a Lyra Etna SL and a great récord cleaner like the Clearaudio Double Matrix. This would be a fantastic combination that would give many years of reliable musical pleasure.
    _______________

    Mike

    Amplification: MBL 6010D, MBL 9008A Monos
    Analog: Kuzma R, Kuzma 4Point (11”), MSL Ultra Eminent EX
    Phono Pre: Pass XP-27
    Digital: Esoteric N01XD Esoteric K05
    Speakers: MBL 101E MKII
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    ICs and SCs: Wireworld Platinum 8
    Rack: Artesania Exoteryc

  29. #29
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    I would like to thank everyone for their suggestions including the Puma Cat's Rega Planar 10, Elztalbiker's Clearaudio Master Innovation and Mike's Kuzma Stabi M all which I just saw this morning. Also thanks for the PMs by some of you.

    I have plenty to continue researching now. Again Many thanks.

  30. #30
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calvin View Post
    Hi Randy,

    Thanks for your post. I purchased my present system knowing - or at least thinking - that I would do an upgrade rather quickly. I made Mike aware of this before I even made my present purchase.

    And yes, I will be hearing T+A and considering their HV amps, preamp, DAC, streamer and SACD. I've discussed this with Mike as well. I really like the Pass sound and wasn't even going to consider anything else until someone else shared their T+A HV experience with me. Apparently, you have T+A and are having a positive experience with it as well.

    This said, I'm going to take my time and as you said, enjoy the journey. It may take me a year or so to do all my listening. Then again it may be much sooner. I'll know it when I hear it.
    Hey Joe,

    This is great and I also believe that Pass is excellent equipment. The only Pass amplifier I ever owned was a First Watt which I felt was one of the best sounding amplifiers I ever had. A couple of friends in our Audio Club have Pass and love them. I had a couple e-mail conversations with Nelson and have nothing but respect for him and his companies!

    I do enjoy my T+A gear, especially the DAC. While I have lower level models my understanding is that T+A retains the sample quality and sound profile through out their lineups. I recommend them to be considered for any purchase decisions in their respective range.

    Again I want to congratulate you on your first choices and your planned upgrades. It sounds like a fun experience and something to treasure. It sounds like you are planning out your ultimate system and that is amazing!

    Randy
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

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  31. #31
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    artisan fidelity HAS to be on any list of this type -- modern and historic turntables in beautiful custom plinths.

    however, if this were my "problem" i would take Puma Cat's suggestion but replace the rega planar with the kuzma stabi R + one of the 4-point arms and then call it a day... even then there will be enough left over for several nice trips abroad.

    fwiw, my cart of choice in that scenario would be an MSL cart which makes this option identical to one proposed above by mike.

    enjoy the journey -- i will certainly enjoy it, vicariously !!

    _________________________________________________

    note 1: the wood plinth option for the stabi R precludes multiple arms -- so, i personally would go with the side wing which then allows for up to 2 additional arms.

    note 2: haven't heard it but the spiral groove revolution is an astoundingly beautiful TT... oh man, if i had that TT and the MBS ref on the top of my rack, i would be in audio nirvana.

    note 3: have a look at core audio designs racks -- just sayin'
    viking acoustics berlin r mk2 | air tight atc-5 + atm-300r | clearaudio concept + virtuoso v2 MM | t+a dac8 dsd + kanjiroba diy transport + roon rock
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  32. #32
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    Hey Joe,

    This is great and I also believe that Pass is excellent equipment. The only Pass amplifier I ever owned was a First Watt which I felt was one of the best sounding amplifiers I ever had. A couple of friends in our Audio Club have Pass and love them. I had a couple e-mail conversations with Nelson and have nothing but respect for him and his companies!

    Thanks Randy. I really enjoy Pass. It is addictive. Music just seems the way it should be with it. So, it will take a lot to move to T+A. But a friend I trust and who also enjoys Pass was blown away by T+A. So, I'm looking forward to listening to it. I'll be comparing the T+A DAC to the MSB Ref/Select II and the dCS Vivaldi. I heard the dCS on a friend's system and really enjoyed it.

    There's probably isn't any right or wrong with the systems I'm looking at. They are all excellent. As you said, enjoy the journey.

    Thanks again.

  33. #33
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calvin View Post
    Thanks Randy. I really enjoy Pass. It is addictive. Music just seems the way it should be with it. So, it will take a lot to move to T+A. But a friend I trust and who also enjoys Pass was blown away by T+A. So, I'm looking forward to listening to it. I'll be comparing the T+A DAC to the MSB Ref/Select II and the dCS Vivaldi. I heard the dCS on a friend's system and really enjoyed it.

    There's probably isn't any right or wrong with the systems I'm looking at. They are all excellent. As you said, enjoy the journey.

    Thanks again.
    Speaking of which, Nelson was our guest at the SFAS member meeting Zoom call this past Saturday. We spent 2 hours chatting with Nelson about amplifier and speaker design. Nelson is very fond of the First Watt SIT amps...

    On July 11, we will be having Alex Crespi of Uptone Audio on as our guest.

  34. #34
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calvin View Post
    Thanks Randy. I really enjoy Pass. It is addictive. Music just seems the way it should be with it. So, it will take a lot to move to T+A. But a friend I trust and who also enjoys Pass was blown away by T+A. So, I'm looking forward to listening to it. I'll be comparing the T+A DAC to the MSB Ref/Select II and the dCS Vivaldi. I heard the dCS on a friend's system and really enjoyed it.

    There's probably isn't any right or wrong with the systems I'm looking at. They are all excellent. As you said, enjoy the journey.

    Thanks again.
    If you are considering T+A, another German brand you might consider is Octave.

  35. #35
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calvin View Post
    Thanks Randy. I really enjoy Pass. It is addictive. Music just seems the way it should be with it. So, it will take a lot to move to T+A. But a friend I trust and who also enjoys Pass was blown away by T+A. So, I'm looking forward to listening to it. I'll be comparing the T+A DAC to the MSB Ref/Select II and the dCS Vivaldi. I heard the dCS on a friend's system and really enjoyed it.

    There's probably isn't any right or wrong with the systems I'm looking at. They are all excellent. As you said, enjoy the journey.

    Thanks again.
    A friend in our audio club has a dCS. It is ok, but I think I like my T+A better. Granted it is not the top dCS and he is very much an analog guy. He owns mainly MBL gear including the same speakers that Mike has. I am not sure what turntable he has but he does have an ARC Ref 10 phono stage.

    He and a couple of my audio club friends journeyed down to LA to check out upper end dCS units. He ended up not upgrading and one of the guys told me that they were very under whelmed. He said he liked my T+A DAC much better. Jon Iverson from Stereophile mag is also a member of our audio club. Last time my wife and I hosted a meeting Jon was saying very good things about the T+A to several other club members. I hear that MSB is great but honestly, I have never listened to one.
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
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  36. #36
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    I second the TechDAS AF3P. I would get an SME 3012R tonearm or two in good condition and a vdH Master Signature cartridge. I would also contact David Karmeli for turntable advice. There may also be some vintage tables that are better and less expensive than the AF3P if you can find one.
    Link to my system thread: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threa...l-sound.32867/
    Analog: Micro Seiki SX 8000 II, 2 NOS SME 3012R tonearms, 2 vdH Colibri Grand Cru, Colibri XPP
    Electronics: Lamm LP2.1 Deluxe, Lamm LL1.1 Signature, Lamm ML2
    Speakers: Vitavox CN-191 corner horns
    Cables: Stock SME phono cables, DIY ICs and speaker cables, Ching Cheng power cords, custom rack and amp stands

  37. #37
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    A friend in our audio club has a dCS. It is ok, but I think I like my T+A better. Granted it is not the top dCS and he is very much an analog guy. He owns mainly MBL gear including the same speakers that Mike has. I am not sure what turntable he has but he does have an ARC Ref 10 phono stage.

    He and a couple of my audio club friends journeyed down to LA to check out upper end dCS units. He ended up not upgrading and one of the guys told me that they were very under whelmed. He said he liked my T+A DAC much better. Jon Iverson from Stereophile mag is also a member of our audio club. Last time my wife and I hosted a meeting Jon was saying very good things about the T+A to several other club members. I hear that MSB is great but honestly, I have never listened to one.
    Randy,

    Thanks for the additional info on dCS.

    I've been the researching T+A HV series. The set up is so very simple / elegant:

    Amps

    2x A 3000 HV (monos)
    2x PS 3000 HV (Elec)

    Rack

    PST 3000 HV (SACD)
    SDV 31000 HV (Streaming DAC Preamp)
    P 3100 HV (preamp with HV phono module)

    T+A uses some special cabling, power accessories (power bars), remotes, and I'd be interested in exploring what their APM Tone Control-Signal Processor could do to improve my room acoustics (esp. seeing I don't have a dedicated room).

    Mike may correct me, but it looks like I'd be saving a considerable amount on the digital end of this setup as compared to either MSB or dCS. And that brings up the possibility of improving the TT. I will still have to hear it first and see how the streamer works (I enjoy my Aurenders a lot - esp. the ability to rip CDS), but T+A looks promising. But hearing will be believing.

  38. #38
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Hey Joe,

    Again I want to make sure you understand that I have never listened to or play around with the higher level dCS gear, and I know they have a very good reputation.

    As for T+A, I think the May issue of Stereophile had a review of the media player. Either Stereophile or The Absolute Sound did a review of the DAC and Preamp combo recently. I wish I could afford these pieces; to me that would be an easy choice. But if I were in your position I would definitely want to explore all of these various options, dCS, MSB, T+A, etc.

    Jesus, this is dream gear in my view (what a system, holy crap):
    Amps
    2x A 3000 HV (monos)
    2x PS 3000 HV (Elec)

    Rack
    PST 3000 HV (SACD)
    SDV 31000 HV (Streaming DAC Preamp)
    P 3100 HV (preamp with HV phono module)

    To me fit and finish, functionality, quality of construction, etc., very much come into play also. I love the way that T+A states on their website that the gear is not designed to last for years, but instead it is designed to last for decades!!! As you stated, hearing is believing!

    I am not familiar with T+A cabling, power bars, etc. I use mainly AudioQuest interconnects and power conditioner.

    Obviously, any of the pieces you are looking at, Pass, T+A, MSB, etc. are simply tremendous!
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  39. #39
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    Hey Joe,

    Again I want to make sure you understand that I have never listened to or play around with the higher level dCS gear, and I know they have a very good reputation.

    As for T+A, I think the May issue of Stereophile had a review of the media player. Either Stereophile or The Absolute Sound did a review of the DAC and Preamp combo recently. I wish I could afford these pieces; to me that would be an easy choice. But if I were in your position I would definitely want to explore all of these various options, dCS, MSB, T+A, etc.

    Jesus, this is dream gear in my view (what a system, holy crap):
    Amps
    2x A 3000 HV (monos)
    2x PS 3000 HV (Elec)

    Rack
    PST 3000 HV (SACD)
    SDV 31000 HV (Streaming DAC Preamp)
    P 3100 HV (preamp with HV phono module)

    To me fit and finish, functionality, quality of construction, etc., very much come into play also. I love the way that T+A states on their website that the gear is not designed to last for years, but instead it is designed to last for decades!!! As you stated, hearing is believing!

    Obviously, any of the pieces you are looking at, Pass, T+A, MSB, etc. are simply tremendous!
    No problem on the dCS gear. I've heard it on a friend's system with Wilson Alexia Series 2 / Audio Research 160s. I loved it. It was exceptional.

    Of course, it sounded better than my system - dedicated room and more expensive speakers. Unbelievable soundstage and detail. I'm going back to listen to some vinyl soon. And he just purchased a spare Pass XA30.8 and has the Everest on the way. So, I will be moving in soon and having my attorney draw up some adoption papers

    On a more serious note, I'm looking forward to what his system sounds like with Pass Labs and the Everest.

    I want to get out of this house to listen to some more systems. COVID is killing my summer audio plans ...

    PS: Thanks for the heads up on the articles.

  40. #40
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    ~ Bob ~
    "And it Stoned me to my Soul" Van Morrison
    ClickAudiophile Audition
    Snoopy as the Red Baron attack
    Avatar = The Alan Parsons Project - Eye in the Sky (1982 - orbiting)

  41. #41
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    TechDAS Air Force III Premium.

  42. #42
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Kodo The Beat Turntable. I don't know anything about them, but they look cool. There a review on pf.

  43. #43
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calvin View Post
    Randy,

    Thanks for the additional info on dCS.

    I've been the researching T+A HV series. The set up is so very simple / elegant:

    Amps

    2x A 3000 HV (monos)
    2x PS 3000 HV (Elec)

    Rack

    PST 3000 HV (SACD)
    SDV 31000 HV (Streaming DAC Preamp)
    P 3100 HV (preamp with HV phono module)

    T+A uses some special cabling, power accessories (power bars), remotes, and I'd be interested in exploring what their APM Tone Control-Signal Processor could do to improve my room acoustics (esp. seeing I don't have a dedicated room).

    Mike may correct me, but it looks like I'd be saving a considerable amount on the digital end of this setup as compared to either MSB or dCS. And that brings up the possibility of improving the TT. I will still have to hear it first and see how the streamer works (I enjoy my Aurenders a lot - esp. the ability to rip CDS), but T+A looks promising. But hearing will be believing.

    the ta digital is really very good. i wonder why you do not choose the pdt 3100 hv as sacd transport?theyr power amps a3000 with ps 3000 are NOT on the level you are looking for. pass aleph class a is more pure and exciting imho.sure, the amps are speaker dependent, and since you mentioned m3, alex, alexia2.....and the choice between them is music-style and taste dependent.well, you have descibed your music...mine is very different with rather deep house and modern stuff. ok, for me and my musictaste, considering the price, the m3 is too weak in slam and bass.apart from that it is an incredible speaker. and beautiful and small enough to put it in the livingroom. alexia2 has no weakness. a touch less resolution vs m3. still more than enough resolution. alexia2 likes pass amps better than t&a amps. audionet humboldt on the alexia2 is on the level of pass xs series, without the heat and warming up time. if you go wilson, i strongly consult you to audition the humboldt. i dont know about the synergy with magico. the alexx....it is very big and probably series 2 not far away. what i want to say is, lol, with your kind of budget i wouldnt buy any of this speakers . i would skip the turntable for the moment and buy the m6!!! your electronics are on very good level. switching from a3 to m6 would kick you out of the door one single change to paradise. and then you can switch your location or not, however you would have an easy time to find the right (your very own taste) amplification and later the right source.

  44. #44
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Best vinyl performance I ever heard was from TechDAS with a SAT arm and Lyra. My suggestion would be to check out TechDAS AF V premium and SAT LM-09 plus your cartridge of choice for final tuning like MSL, Lyra, Ortofon, Etsuro… that should be reasonable covered by 50 big ones!

    For cables in general give Ansuz Acoustics upper level a try D2, DTC and on, specially mains cables do great magic…

    Mike waiting for his AF V premium
    Main system: Aavik Acoustics U-300, TechDAS AF V Premium + Kuzma 4P11" Gemstone/Kondo silver + Ortofon Diamond, Naim streamer SSD + TAD DA-1000 DAC, Sonus Faber Stradivari 35 Anniversary, full cable loom Ansuz Acoustics, D on signal side, Mainz DTC/D2 + Mainz8 D-TC power distributor. All individual equipment and cables rest on Ansuz Acoustics Darkz DTC. Dedicated mains supply (Audience Conductor) with Klangmodule fuse system and Furutech receptacles. Other systems: Collection of Sonus Faber classics (Franco S design), tube gear and transistor designs, CD-transports and players, turntables and collection of cables

  45. #45
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Just curious why Brinkman hasn't come up, are they out of budget?
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
    Mark Levinson #526, 534 & JBL 4367's
    Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
    Clarus Concerto & their Crimson cables

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    Parasound P6, MBL 8006b, Artisan speakers/subwoofer

  46. #46
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Ok, this seems incredibly obvious to me... just pickup a Rega Plannar 10 with the top Rega cartridge... that will bring you in at just under 10 big ones... leaving plenty to get your buddy a new T+A amplifier ...

    Just kidding, just kidding.... (got to have some fun)


    I find it very entertaining all the names I see being suggested, yet some very big and famous names not being mentioned (SME, Oracle, Basis, etc.).... also very curious on why not wanting to hear about VPI going into this?

    What you really need is the Goldmund Reference II. It is only about $300k .
    Attachment 28339

    But the most unique looking table has to be this , at only $180k the Audio Consulting R-evolution Meteor is an amazing design.
    Attachment 28338

    Ps... Hopefully you had fun reading this post, I had fun posting it .
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
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  47. #47
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    Ok, this seems incredibly obvious to me... just pickup a Rega Plannar 10 with the top Rega cartridge... that will bring you in at just under 10 big ones... leaving plenty to get your buddy a new T+A amplifier ...Just kidding, just kidding.... (got to have some fun) I find it very entertaining all the names I see being suggested, yet some very big and famous names not being mentioned (SME, Oracle, Basis, etc.).... also very curious on why not wanting to hear about VPI going into this? What you really need is the Goldmund Reference II. It is only about $300k . Attachment 28339But the most unique looking table has to be this , at only $180k the Audio Consulting R-evolution Meteor is an amazing design.Attachment 28338Ps... Hopefully you had fun reading this post .
    That’s funny and thanks for the additional TT recommendations. As far as VPI, I’m just not interested in their tables. And the Goldman would be nice, but as you said it would blow the budget. And I’m not paying 180k for a piece of wood - that probably sounds incredible. And yes, I had fun reading the post.

  48. #48
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    I love my SME model 30/12 with V-12 arm and vdH Mater Signature. The issue is only one arm And SME seems to be out of favor these days. I have to have money for eight years and it is incredibly well built and reliable. It is quite expensive and it does not have a broad dealer network. Are used SME 30 or 30/12 would be a fantastic value in my opinion.
    Link to my system thread: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threa...l-sound.32867/
    Analog: Micro Seiki SX 8000 II, 2 NOS SME 3012R tonearms, 2 vdH Colibri Grand Cru, Colibri XPP
    Electronics: Lamm LP2.1 Deluxe, Lamm LL1.1 Signature, Lamm ML2
    Speakers: Vitavox CN-191 corner horns
    Cables: Stock SME phono cables, DIY ICs and speaker cables, Ching Cheng power cords, custom rack and amp stands

  49. #49
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    Just curious why Brinkman hasn't come up, are they out of budget?
    Thanks. Someone discussed a Brinkman and Bergmann in a PM. Still have to research them ...

  50. #50
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    Re: Which TurnTable - 50K range?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I love my SME model 30/12 with V-12 arm and vdH Mater Signature. The issue is only one arm And SME seems to be out of favor these days. I have to have money for eight years and it is incredibly well built and reliable. It is quite expensive and it does not have a broad dealer network. Are used SME 30 or 30/12 would be a fantastic value in my opinion.
    I haven’t heard it yet, but I believe a friend of mine owns a SME. I’m not sure of the model or anything. But if he does own one I’ll hear it soon.

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Which TurnTable - 50K range?

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