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  1. #1
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    HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    Does a TT actually sound "better" than HD streaming? I would think seriously about getting a TT and phono amp but I'd have to start completely from scratch. I have no vinyl and haven't had for 15+ years. I have very narrow tastes in music...bluegrass, swing, and bop jazz. I have a lifetime subscription with Roon and a superb sounding high end audio system (see my signature). So I'm not sure I'd be gaining much investing in a TT and phono amp.

    I'm also not sure I could find enough vinyl that I like to make the investment worth it. Especially vinyl that's in good condition and still sounds good without the snap, crackle, pop, found on aged vinyl. Maybe I'd be better off just sticking with HD streaming? I'd like to have the very best sound I can. And if a TT would give me a significant increase in sound quality over HD streaming I'd probably be interested. But, as mentioned above, there are practicalities to consider.

    What are your thoughts on this? Would I be better off putting my money in something else or would a TT be worth the additional investment?
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  2. #2
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    If you are starting completely from scratch especially in terms of media I would stay in the lane you are in. I kept all of my vinyl and even bought a couple of hundred new releases and reissues plus I have all the equipment needed to play and clean the 2500+ LP's when I feel like it which gets less all the time. If I had to start over again I would stick with my CD's and streaming. I grew up with vinyl and have owned and played it for over 50 years and it sounds "different." Better has been a subject of debate on forums for decades and there is no definitive answer. It's all personal opinion.
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  3. #3
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    I felt the same way about jumping back into vinyl after getting rid of my collection back in the day. I felt, and still do feel that digital is great and I still use my PC Server/DAC often, mainly with headphones or when I am not in the mood to fuss with albums.

    With that said I did end up jumping back in and do truly love my new vinyl. I can't say one is better than the other but they are different.

    I really enjoy vinyl with my new change in direction in speakers. You can get a fantastic vinyl setup without going too crazy. Of course then there are albums... My collection is up to 135 in less than a year...
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  4. #4

    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    Invest in a good power conditioner first. You probably don’t want to hear this, but looking at your signature, that’s what I’d do next. The gear you have deserve good power.

  5. #5
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    I never got rid of my vinyl or CD's. This is just my personal opinion, the experiences for me with vinyl over streaming is that I can set down and relax with vinyl while holding the cover in my hands reading the details of the music and the artist that made the music. This just gets me further into the music. I always felt that streaming which I do like with my lumin is just that, you set it and forget it which to me causes me to lose some interest, while jumping ahead past songs you don't like. Is one better than the other, I say it all depends on the material the music is own and how it is presented (system, room and taste) and the mastering of the music.
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  6. #6

    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrassphile View Post
    Does a TT actually sound "better" than HD streaming? I would think seriously about getting a TT and phono amp but I'd have to start completely from scratch. I have no vinyl and haven't had for 15+ years. I have very narrow tastes in music...bluegrass, swing, and bop jazz. I have a lifetime subscription with Roon and a superb sounding high end audio system (see my signature). So I'm not sure I'd be gaining much investing in a TT and phono amp.

    I'm also not sure I could find enough vinyl that I like to make the investment worth it. Especially vinyl that's in good condition and still sounds good without the snap, crackle, pop, found on aged vinyl. Maybe I'd be better off just sticking with HD streaming? I'd like to have the very best sound I can. And if a TT would give me a significant increase in sound quality over HD streaming I'd probably be interested. But, as mentioned above, there are practicalities to consider.

    What are your thoughts on this? Would I be better off putting my money in something else or would a TT be worth the additional investment?
    Since you have only put about 200 hours on your system since you purchased it, I wouldn't invest money in an analog rig at this juncture. If you had a collection of LPs to start with, I might feel differently. With the little time you get to spend listening to your system, I would stick with your digital rig.
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  7. #7
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    I have been playing records & LP's for nearly 50 years, kept my LP's during the CD age. My analog rig sounds good, I enjoy it when I play it but if just having to start from scratch I don't think I'd do it. There are some diehard analog users but I think the convenience factor keeps many from listening to LP's more. We have to admit, if doing it properly, caring, there's a lot that goes into just playing an LP.
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  8. #8
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    At 71 I am pure digital. While I had turntables in the 70s and early 80s, I was glad when CDs were invented. For me, very few records were worth listening to from start to finish, and I ruined many an album trying to move the needle to a good song. Now with the Lumin I get High-Res downloads from HDTacks, create playlists with thousands of songs, and play them with random shuffle. Life is good.
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  9. #9
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    It all depends on what you’re listening to and how it was originally recorded. If it’s pre-80’s, I prefer vinyl. Tape to vinyl without any A2D. If it’s recorded digitally, I tend to stick with digital for those albums.

    My finding is that most A2D converters used by studios are very poor and add artificial characteristics to the music. So if it’s available in a tape ——> vinyl, that’s my preference and definitely sounds better to my ears. Removing that nasty A2D process.


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  10. #10
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    If you are starting completely from scratch especially in terms of media I would stay in the lane you are in. I kept all of my vinyl and even bought a couple of hundred new releases and reissues plus I have all the equipment needed to play and clean the 2500+ LP's when I feel like it which gets less all the time. If I had to start over again I would stick with my CD's and streaming. I grew up with vinyl and have owned and played it for over 50 years and it sounds "different." Better has been a subject of debate on forums for decades and there is no definitive answer. It's all personal opinion.
    Jack nailed it, nothing more need be said ..........
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  11. #11
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    A turntable technically sounds worse than a digital setup, but subjectively sounds better to some people. To approach something of equivalent quality (different but of the same level), I generally think you need to spend many times more on an analog setup compared to a digital setup.

    I agree with the other posters that since you recently upgraded your setup that you should give it a while, and only scratch the analog itch if you really feel like you want to have something different (not better, just different) to listen to and you have the funds allocated to invest in it.
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  12. #12

    HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    If you own a very good tt-setup it‘s hart to beat it. Vinyl is like 30 Bit recordings. There are only few recordings with 30 Bit resolution.

    Just my opinion.


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  13. #13
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    i agree with every single argument, pro and against

  14. #14

    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    Quote Originally Posted by Elztalbiker View Post
    ....
    Vinyl is like 30 Bit recordings.
    ...
    Please post your source. From everything that I have read, vinyl is less than 16 bit (btw, 16 bit is CD quality).

  15. #15
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    I think he was speaking figuratively.

    I enjoy both, depends on mood. Right now I am enjoying the hell out of my digital. Earlier I enjoyed the hell out of my vinyl. So many pros and cons.

    I would say if I am trying to get the absolute best out of my system I pick out an album, but sometimes I am not in the mood to mess with it so I select a digital album and think, how can I do better than this .
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  16. #16

    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    It all depends on what you’re listening to and how it was originally recorded. If it’s pre-80’s, I prefer vinyl. Tape to vinyl without any A2D. If it’s recorded digitally, I tend to stick with digital for those albums.

    My finding is that most A2D converters used by studios are very poor and add artificial characteristics to the music. So if it’s available in a tape ——> vinyl, that’s my preference and definitely sounds better to my ears. Removing that nasty A2D process.


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    Is there a place we can go to determine if a recording is analog or digital?

  17. #17
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    Quote Originally Posted by infonut View Post
    Is there a place we can go to determine if a recording is analog or digital?
    No single place that I’m aware of. However, you can safely assume everything before 1980 is analog. You then also have to do your research on sites like discogs, acoustic sounds, mofi, elusive disc, etc. Read album reviews and more. Fremer is diligent about this kind of research on the albums he reviews.

    What becomes tricky is then ensuring the pressing to vinyl is from the tapes and not the digital files. Again, those sites above often tell the source in the description.

    Here’s an example:

    John Coltrane-A Love Supreme-180 Gram Vinyl Record|Acoustic Sounds




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  18. #18
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    Many of the turntable advocates play records for the nostalgic experience. The tactile feel of holding the record, placing it on the table, reading the LP cover, watching it spin, etc., etc. For them, it’s not just the sound but the pleasure they get from physically playing records. I know because I used to be one of those guys, but now I’m all digital. To each their own.
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  19. #19
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    an issue i have been pondering for a while -- 2+ years at this point. here, is my $0.02 for someone like myself without an existing LP collection...

    if and only if you are at an end-game state with the rest of your system then it makes sense to consider adding an analog source. otherwise, one might be happier getting their existing system to a higher level of performance.

    in terms of an analog source, the decision revolves around 1) whether one wants to add a "different" sound to the mix and/or 2) whether one would find ongoing value in the much more tactile nature of analog. also, one must come to the subjective determination that these benefits outweigh the very significant expense of good analog.

    can't remember who here said this but its seems an apt analogy: "digital is like cracking open a beer, analog is like mixing a martini"

    as always YMMV ...and, my thoughts on the subject might change this afternoon
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  20. #20
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    Quote Originally Posted by Oly View Post
    Many of the turntable advocates play records for the nostalgic experience. The tactile feel of holding the record, placing it on the table, reading the LP cover, watching it spin, etc., etc. For them, it’s not just the sound but the pleasure they get from physically playing records. I know because I used to be one of those guys, but now I’m all digital. To each their own.
    I sill am, but I'm 67 why change enjoyable habits LOL
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  21. #21
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrassphile View Post
    I have very narrow tastes in music...bluegrass, swing, and bop jazz. I have a superb sounding high end audio system (see my signature). I'd like to have the very best sound I can.

    Would I be better off putting my money in something else?
    ever thought about mastertapes?

  22. #22
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    Quote Originally Posted by CPP View Post
    I never got rid of my vinyl or CD's. This is just my personal opinion, the experiences for me with vinyl over streaming is that I can set down and relax with vinyl while holding the cover in my hands reading the details of the music and the artist that made the music. This just gets me further into the music. I always felt that streaming which I do like with my lumin is just that, you set it and forget it which to me causes me to lose some interest, while jumping ahead past songs you don't like. Is one better than the other, I say it all depends on the material the music is own and how it is presented (system, room and taste) and the mastering of the music.
    While certainly not universal for all digital content, some downloaded albums come with a "booklet" file bundled with the music. Also, I've noticed on Qobuz that many of the albums have the "booklet" available. The LDS app I use on my iPad with my Auralic Aries G1 allows me to read/scroll through the booklet if it is available. Maybe not as good as holding the original album cover in my hand, but then again, I don't have to have the lights on in order to read it either.

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  23. #23

    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    Quote Originally Posted by Oly View Post
    Many of the turntable advocates play records for the nostalgic experience. The tactile feel of holding the record, placing it on the table, reading the LP cover, watching it spin, etc., etc. For them, it’s not just the sound but the pleasure they get from physically playing records. I know because I used to be one of those guys, but now I’m all digital. To each their own.
    That's a declarative statement. How do you know this to be true other than you state you "know" it's true because you used to be "one of those guys?" I would flip this statement and say "Many of the turntable advocates play records because even though it involves more work, they feel LPs still have superior sound compared to digital files regardless of bit depth and sampling rate."

    At the end of the day, people's opinions on the sound of digital and analog are just that-opinions. I'm glad I have both formats-digital for convenience and discovering new music, and analog for the sound quality that I most enjoy.
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  24. #24
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    mep, no more 'declarative' than yours, in reality who cares, your (individual) enjoyment is what matters as I agree with your second paragraph.
    Cheers ! …. Dave

  25. #25

    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikado463 View Post
    mep, no more 'declarative' than yours, in reality who cares, your (individual) enjoyment is what matters as I agree with your second paragraph.
    My statement wasn’t declarative. I clearly stated it’s all opinions and feelings.
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  26. #26
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrassphile View Post
    Does a TT actually sound "better" than HD streaming? ...What are your thoughts on this? Would I be better off putting my money in something else or would a TT be worth the additional investment?
    My first question is how much money you got to spend on vinyl replay (hardware & software)? You cannot separate the cost of the software from the equation. Vinyl reissues that will give you the SQ you expect after living with HD streaming are between $30-50 or an average or $40 per LP. Multiply that by 100 records and that's $4,000, by 1,000 records which is more realistic and you now have $40,000 invested in vinyl and still nothing to play it on. By comparison, $4k will buy you 16 years of HD subscription services from a Qobuz or the like.

  27. #27

    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    Quote Originally Posted by puroagave View Post
    My first question is how much money you got to spend on vinyl replay (hardware & software)? You cannot separate the cost of the software from the equation. Vinyl reissues that will give you the SQ you expect after living with HD streaming are between $30-50 or an average or $40 per LP. Multiply that by 100 records and that's $4,000, by 1,000 records which is more realistic and you now have $40,000 invested in vinyl and still nothing to play it on. By comparison, $4k will buy you 16 years of HD subscription services from a Qobuz or the like.
    Vinyl is definitely more expensive. Also, keep in mind that the 16 years of music service subscription that you mentioned come with immediate access to millions of albums (not just a mere 1,000).
    Personal opinions aside, technically speaking vinyl has many drawbacks as compared to digital but of course that does not prevent any individual for liking/preferring the sound of vinyl regardless of its imperfections.
    I have both digital and vinyl set up. In my experience, dollar for dollar, digital is definitely much more cost effective.

  28. #28
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    To me vinyl is fun and relaxing. That‘s enough. Better? Is beer better than wine? It‘s just a different exprience. My 2 ct.


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  29. #29

    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    Red or white...??

  30. #30
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    Quote Originally Posted by bzr View Post
    Red or white...??
    Ford or Chevy, Speakers vs Headphones, Tubes vs SS. threads like this always sooner or later go down the tubes. Its music, we like it as we play it. No right or wrong. Thank God we have a choice.
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  31. #31
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrassphile View Post
    Does a TT actually sound "better" than HD streaming? I would think seriously about getting a TT and phono amp but I'd have to start completely from scratch. I have no vinyl and haven't had for 15+ years. I have very narrow tastes in music...bluegrass, swing, and bop jazz. I have a lifetime subscription with Roon and a superb sounding high end audio system (see my signature). So I'm not sure I'd be gaining much investing in a TT and phono amp.

    I'm also not sure I could find enough vinyl that I like to make the investment worth it. Especially vinyl that's in good condition and still sounds good without the snap, crackle, pop, found on aged vinyl. Maybe I'd be better off just sticking with HD streaming? I'd like to have the very best sound I can. And if a TT would give me a significant increase in sound quality over HD streaming I'd probably be interested. But, as mentioned above, there are practicalities to consider.

    What are your thoughts on this? Would I be better off putting my money in something else or would a TT be worth the additional investment?
    Different yes, better? If you haven’t been into vinyl at some point or left it for good reason in the past then picking it up again is a decision that shouldn't be taken lightly. I love playing my records but if I hadn’t been doing it for half a century already I’d concentrate on perfecting my digital rig. Your system is good enough already you’d have to really do some research and listening to vinyl setups to find the right one for you.
    Tom

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  32. #32
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    i own 4 turnturtables and 5 tonearms and 3 tape decks, love them all, but listen to digital 70% of the time, most of that streaming.

    there is not any question that vinyl goes places musically digital cannot reach. period. we can argue either at state of the art levels where my digital is, or steps up to that level. vinyl is supreme.

    yet; if i was starting over in your shoes knowing what i know now, i would likely stick with digital and streaming. it's better than 'good enough', it's exceptional.....just not quite to vinyl. the exception would be access to golden age jazz on Lp, even reissues. if i was a serious jazz fan then i would go to the trouble to be able to fully enjoy those classic recordings right. a nice turntable that can get that jazz magic is not that spendy either. there are even modestly priced vintage tt/arm/cartridge choices that synergize well with jazz.

    if you are not a serious golden age jazz fan, just invest in following the MSB dac upgrade path and also upgrade your server as you go along. no hurry as you are at a high level now. but there is a clear upgrade path.

    that is my 2 cents.

  33. #33
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    Being a 61 year old gentleman who adopted computers very early in life, I jumped into the digital music world early. We used to hotrod Creative Labs cards for best digital SPDIF output, before USB audio. I would smirk at the ‘Napster’ generation for listening to lossy music files.

    I love my current digital rigs, and enjoy both streaming and stored files equally.

    However, being 61 also means I grew up with vinyl through childhood, high school, college, and medical school. My small vinyl collection was ruined in hurricane Elisha in ‘83. My lovely wife got me a new fangled Sony CD player soon after. And it was digital for decades.

    I got back into vinyl with my Dads vinyl collection and ancient turntable, from his attic. I have upgraded my vinyl rig, and added significantly to the collection. There is “something” in the vinyl sound that works for me in a way that digital does not offer. Euphony? Old ears? Nostalgia? Expectations, after all the work involved? No clue, but it is there, for me. At least enough to get a decent vinyl rig, and clean records.
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  34. #34
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones13 View Post
    Being a 61 year old gentleman who adopted computers very early in life, I jumped into the digital music world early. We used to hotrod Creative Labs cards for best digital SPDIF output, before USB audio. I would smirk at the ‘Napster’ generation for listening to lossy music files.

    I love my current digital rigs, and enjoy both streaming and stored files equally.

    However, being 61 also means I grew up with vinyl through childhood, high school, college, and medical school. My small vinyl collection was ruined in hurricane Elisha in ‘83. My lovely wife got me a new fangled Sony CD player soon after. And it was digital for decades.

    I got back into vinyl with my Dads vinyl collection and ancient turntable, from his attic. I have upgraded my vinyl rig, and added significantly to the collection. There is “something” in the vinyl sound that works for me in a way that digital does not offer. Euphony? Old ears? Nostalgia? Expectations, after all the work involved? No clue, but it is there, for me. At least enough to get a decent vinyl rig, and clean records.
    Great story!


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  35. #35
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    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    I like that vinyl ends after 20 minutes. Sometimes my digital drones on. Evan with HQ Player, its the whole album. 40 minutes. Call it short attention span, but I like the forced intermission. It gives me a moment to reset and get back into the groove. Wow, I dropped a pun.
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  36. #36

    Re: HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    Well from my perspective as of others here, if you are starting from scratch just stay with streaming and upgrade to the best DAC/ Streamer you can afford.

    Vinyl better than streaming/digital, yes and no. I have albums that just plain sound better on my system than the cd or what I can stream. Maybe my system is a better setup for vinyl but there are things I stream that sound better than the cd or vinyl I have. Is it that I don’t have a good copy on vinyl ? Maybe. My prejudice? I’m sure my affinity towards vinyl influences my preferences.

    I have been into vinyl since the 60s and have an big collection of albums, cds and stream on Tidal. Love them all for different reasons.

    Growing up with vinyl I have a love for the format and listening to albums was a very social and tactile event for me and my friends. I can still remember when and where I bought many of my albums, couldn’t say the same for the CDs. As mentioned before there is just something about the sound and ritual of playing an album. The pause between sides to talk about what you just heard and the anticipation of side 2.

    Even with those positives, I think with a good streaming rig and your vast selection of available music you’ll be satisfied.

    Good luck on your music exploration.


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  37. #37

    HD Streaming vs Turntable And Vinyl

    Deleted Duplicate Post
    Last edited by Captainice; September 13, 2020 at 07:48 PM. Reason: Duplicate post deleted

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