Thread: Vinyl Cleaning: VPI + Audio Desk + Klaudio

Yesterday [17 April 2015], I called Paul with Ultrasystems, the Audio Desk Systems USA distributor.

I had a short but sweet conversation about cleaning methods and he agrees that there is no single vinyl cleaning solution. My thought, yes ultrasonics are great, traditional methods are also very good and sometimes necessary. A complete cleaning approach?

For example, I told him that I was playing Pink Floyd the wall vinyl and there was this section that just wasn't playing well. I processed it through the VPI HW 27 Typhoon, played it... still a bit murky and then again, processed it through the Audio Desk, and Boom! Sweet spot. Flawless.

At the moment, my Klaudio is in the shop with the manufacture, so I couldn't give it a final clean through that system.

The nice thing about Paul. He seemed very agreeable that the use of all three systems is an ideal set up, if you can kick down the cash. He said, processing the final cleans after the VPI through either the Audio Desk or Klaudio would likely render the most ideal results.

Since I have three machines, I am curious about buying the ClearAudio Double Matrix Sonic. That would make 4 units. Paul didn't have a suggestion for this scenerio.

Perhaps use the Klaudio for the final cleanse and rinse?

What are your thoughts?

Every RCF has a sound, some less than others. Then the issue with vacuum based machines is as the quantity of fluid on the LP decreases, surface tension increases. Thus removing the last vestiges of a RCF on a vacuum based machine is very difficult.

Ergo the best fluid is pure water and by default the KLaudio. Or you could try dropping the quantity of fluid used in the AD as some have suggested.

Hey, Myles!

Hi Bill!

Originally Posted by cmalak

David...here's a link written by Bill Hart above on his new website on record cleaning: Cleaning - Care Archives - The Vinyl Press

There are many other sources for info, including Michael Fremer here: The Most Comprehensive Record Cleaning Article Ever! | Analog Planet

Might want to check this out to. See if can find that issue and figure a way to put it online.

As Myles Astor has demonstrated (in his article 'Record Cleaning Fluids,' Sounds Like #8, May 1990. This is the finest article to date on the subject of record cleaning fluid chemistry and its sonic consequences), groove wall interactions occur on a molecular level, and like it or not, any and every cleaning fluid will leave some amount of itself behind. In order to keep residues to a minimum, the cleaning solution used in each step must dissolve the one used previously. This minimizes or prevents audible cleaning fluid residue signatures such as low level 'whoosh' and high pitched hiss.

I think Myles has done a huge amount over the years, including his reviews on fluids, comparisons of ultrasonic machines, and his reviews on inner sleeves (one that was old, and one that was quite recent). And Myles was one of the first, to my knowledge, to speak to the sonic signature of various fluids.

Originally Posted by billhart

I think Myles has done a huge amount over the years, including his reviews on fluids, comparisons of ultrasonic machines, and his reviews on inner sleeves (one that was old, and one that was quite recent). And Myles was one of the first, to my knowledge, to speak to the sonic signature of various fluids.

Actually Enid did right about the same time too.

Originally Posted by socfan12

Myles, can't find the RCM fluids article posted anywhere on the web. It's referenced everywhere, including earlier on AS, but no article. If you ever find it, would you mind posting here on AS?

cheers

I will try and find it. Will have to look through some boxes but that issue might be in storage. I think Francisco/Microstrip posted it a while back on WBF but I couldn't find it. Perhaps if he reads this post.

Hey Guys... here's a bit more back story on the RCMs I own and use and what I have experienced and really would love some feedback. Maybe I am doing it all wrong... and I certainly, given how much money I have spent, would like to be very wrong and know how to make this all work! So, feel free to be critical...it's the only way I will learn.

I have a huge vinyl collection. My first ever RCM, the VPI HW27 and it performed great. Never a complaint. I cleaned all my vinyl with it and it never tired. Love VPI products.


I bought the Klaudio this past August 2014 and got rid of the VPI. I went back and cleaned every piece of vinyl over a period of month and it too, never tired. A snap and effortless. Drop it in and go.


But the problem is. All the vinyl I re-cleaned had already been beautifully done by the VPI RCM. So, I really couldn't determine an improvement.


However, since I no longer had the VPI and was purchasing brand new vinyl, the only device I had now was the Klaudio and when I would clean & play the new pressings, they sounded terrible. Snap Crack Pop on pandemic levels.


It was argued, I am buying crap pressings. So, I thought...could be true. But something told me...something is not right about the Klaudio. Because, I have read on AA all these comments about how great it is.


I did an experiment. I repurchased the VPI HW27 and processed some of those new records cleaned by the Kaludio and all those snap crackle and pops nearly disappeared and the audio space created, fantastic! The vinyl was now enjoyable and listenable.


I even processed those now VPI cleaned records back into the Kaludio and no improvement. There were some lingering snap crack and pops.


So, I took it a step further. I purchased the Audio Desk. and processed those Klaudio cleaned, VPI Cleaned and then Kaludio re-cleaned into the Audio Desk and those final Snap Crackle and Pops disappeared and the vinyl seemed to open up even more.


*I am increasingly more tempted to purchased the ClearAudio Double Matrix Sonic to add that to the mix and compare.

*@socfan12. Like you, I have cleaned the vinyl countless times with no results. I have spoken to Tim at Klaudio and he had by buy a device on Amazon to test the WATTS. I verified. In fact, it test above the minimum. So, in Tim's opinion, it's working correctly. But, if I am achieving results with the VPI and Audio Desk, something tells me one of two things:

1. Klaudio is defective
2. Klaudio doesn't work.

Perhaps there is not just one solution?

Originally Posted by MikeCh

I've only ever used an RCM with vacuum method. Currently own the VPI 17 and if performs well.

I'd think that the Ultrasonic RCM's would be great as a final cycle after something like the VPI wash/agitate with brush/vac/rinse/agitate with brush/vac process that is the normal mantra for vacuum RCM's.

Having used ultrasonic cleaners for many other uses over the years myself (cleaning drafting pen tips, jewelry, watch bands, car keys, etc.) I sure wouldn't think that using one solely by itself would be a good method for cleaning records. If you've ever dipped a metal link watch band into an ultrasonic cleaner filled with warm water and a little soap you will see that almost instantly the water is discolored from all the dirt and grease contained within the links of the watch band.

In my opinion, using an US RCM only would be like taking pots, pans and plates after an evening meal straight from the stove / table and placing them in the dishwasher without first at least rinsing them in the sink or throwing out excess food into the garbage before placing in a dishwasher. On top of that, if there isn't a filter or drain mechanism in place on an US RCM for between cycles, then to use another food and dishes analogy, it would be like taking those same dirty, greasy dishes/pans and doing the dishes in the sink, then whether you drain the sink or not when finished, DON'T scrub the sink, just refill it and wash the next batch. Thus, you just transfer the first batches' crud to the next batch due to the sink basin retaining grease and crud.

I bet the US RCM's work great for the first five or so LP's though....until they become fouled.

Maybe using an US RCM by itself just means you need to clean the tank walls and replace the fluids more often? How often do you do so with the Klaudio?

Mike those issues have already been addressed in the reviews and by the machine's designers. It's a non-issue. Not to mention we're talking a different sonicator. Not a toy.

Emptying the tank depends on what type of LPs you clean and the pcts. If you do mainly new LP, a lot longer, maybe 150 LPs. If you primarily clean used LPs, maybe a 100 LPs. Water is cheap, $2 or so for distilled water.

Originally Posted by socfan12

(One LP I purchased from an Amazon reseller actually had dried booger on the LP [and they claimed it was 'Like New']. No amount of ultrasonic cleaning will get rid of that, LOL! )

LOLOLOLOL. Yeah, no RCM is going to clean that! Grab a pair of gloves and proceed with caution.

Originally Posted by Golucid

LOLOLOLOL. Yeah, no RCM is going to get them. Grab a pair of gloves and proceed with caution.

A toothbrush often helps in tough or hopeless situations.

Originally Posted by MikeCh

Not a toy? I thought all ultrasonic cleaners for every industry use were considered toys. I asked Santa for one when I was 7.

Heck, why wait for 100 LP's to change the water? If distilled water is all that's used with the Klaudio, then why not try to keep things as "sterile" as possible and just change/drain the water after each session of cleaning say, 10 LP's? Even going to the point of letting the guts air dry between cleaning sessions. That would seem like a good (and cheap) way to keep things from getting contaminated over time regardless of what the manufacturer or reviewers say.

I was referring to ones used for home jewelry purposes as you mentioned. And there are more powerful sonicators, higher frequencies, power, etc. The sonicators we used in biochemistry to disrupt cells in solution required ear protection.

As far as the water goes, knock yourself out. That was covered in my and Fremer's reviews. I think some of the questions raised are answered there. Thing is as the KLaudio designer points out, the sonicators pulverize everything. You can look at the water in the tank very easily and see whether or not it's clear. You can empty it and see what's on the bottom of the water tank. After 50 cleanings, not a lot of anything. As I said, if you clean really filthy LPs, you will need to,empty the tank more frequently. I just haven't seen any of the issues you've raised.

If it's that important to you, then there's the AD that uses a piece of foam to strain the particles out of the water wash. But you've read about the reliability issues though knock on wood, I never had any problems with my AD. But I switched to the KLaudio as I wrote about in my review because records cleaned on this machine simply sounded better.

I also don't understand the comment on sterility. Unless all your solutions are either run under pressure through something like 0.22 uM filters or run through an autoclave, the machine sterilized and the cleaning done in a laminar flow hood, nothing is sterile. The moment one takes something out from a laminar flow hood and put it in a inner sleeve it's unsterile.

YMMV...

Just remember where all this took Howard Hughes. I change the water in the KL more frequently for new records (which often go straight into the KL) than for old records (which get pre-cleaned, and water rinsed/vacuumed on the Monks). I have some sterile non-impregnated lab wipes that I use to clean out the KL reservoir and the only occasion when I found any 'grime' was after I cleaned that Beatles Mono boxed set. I use reagent water in the KL- in for a penny, in for 12 dollars a gallon.
The combination of different methods works well for me on old records- many of which look clean but those old Vertigo Swirls and a bunch of other old records really benefitted from the enzyme soak, agitate, vacuum, water rinse stage before popping into the ultrasonic. As Myles knows, I've had both the AD and KL too. I actually dig the Monks, in the same way I like old British cars- not something you casually take out for a spin, requires a little more 'driver' involvement and the mechanical aspects are a bit antediluvean, but all that appeals to me. And the damn thing does a pretty good job. But, when I didn't have an ultrasonic for a week, I felt a little bereft.

@Myles B. Astor

What liquid cleaner do you suggest I purchase? Do you have url for me to purchase at?

@billhart

I received a new piece of vinyl today. I played it first on my McIntosh MT10 + Ortofon Windfeld. Sounded ok. Pop and Clicks and Static. I dropped into the Audio Desk. Boom! Sounds pristine and clear and have yet to hear a snap crackle pop.

Note. Had I done this though the Klaudio as I have with other vinyl, it would have been snap crackle pop. It is off right now at the Klaudio HQ, but I am not hopeful. I have been talking with Tim and he has been so un-empathetic. I imagine they will just send it back thus darling the KL paper weight hero of ht year in my office.

Thus far, the VPI and Audio Desk have been real champs.

Originally Posted by Golucid

@billhart

I received a new piece of vinyl today. I played it first on my McIntosh MT10 + Ortofon Windfeld. Sounded ok. Pop and Clicks and Static. I dropped into the Audio Desk. Boom! Sounds pristine and clear and have yet to hear a snap crackle pop.

Note. Had I done this though the Claudio as I have with other vinyl, it would have been snap crackle pop. It is off right now at the Klaudio HQ, but I am not hopeful. I have been talking with Tim and he has been so un-empathetic. I imagine they will just send it back thus darling the KL paper weight hero of ht year in my office.

Thus far, the VPI and Audio Desk have been real champs.

Have no basis to disagree with your experience, but as I mentioned on another forum where you raised the issue of the KL being ineffective, I suggested, based on what you described, that your KL might be defective, and thought you agreed. Sorry Tim is not supporting you. Keep in mind that most of my 'heavy lifting,' and indeed the vast majority of my vinyl purchases over the last several years, has been records from the mid-late 60's, some earlier, and some a little later. Those all benefited from combining conventional wash (enzyme type)/rinse and ultrasonic, rather than just using one type of machine. Whether it was cigarette (or other) smoke, cooking fumes, or other contaminants, it took some effort to get some of these records to a high state of play. There were occasions, too, where there would be a wispy sort of sibilance/tracing distortion (the last track of one side of After the Gold Rush, RE-1 press), that cleaning on one machine did not eliminate but the double-punch did an effective job in almost entirely eliminating it. Sometimes, new vinyl is nasty because of static, sometimes, because the pressing is defective; most of the detritus I've encountered on new vinyl has been surface lint from cheap paper liners, scuffs (from handling) and the occasional fingerprint.
Sometimes, off-center spindle holes, too, but cleaning won't do anything for that.

Originally Posted by Golucid

@Myles B. Astor

What liquid cleaner do you suggest I purchase? Do you have url for me to purchase at?

I assume you mean for your VPI?

Everyone has their favorite RCF. Some like the Audio Intelligent, others the Walker, others yet Disc Doctor. There are yet others from Keith Monks, Record Time from Musical Surroundings, Clearaudio, VPI and Unity Audio (and a few others I'm sure I've forgotten). Who would have thunk 35 years AD there would have been so many RCFs to choose from? Not me and I'm as about diehard analog as they come (at that time, I bought a lifetime supply of inner sleeves just in case they went away!).

I gave my VPI 16.5 away a while ago and have been subsisting on the KLaudio (with the AD in the closet). At that time, I was using either the Audio Intelligent (I think the #15) or MOFI enzyme cleaner (made by Brian Weitzel whose RRL cleaning fluid --eventually being folded into the "ordinary" MOFI record cleaning fluid-- I used for the better part of a decade before the enzyme cleaners) with a water rinse. The enzyme cleaners do a better job in reducing record surface noise but not in the league of the US machines.

I use a VPI 16.5 with AI fluids, listener select brushes and a home brew for thrift store records. (I don't have too many of those though). That combined with my methodology does a good job. A great deal of my records (95% of them used) are CD quiet, some are near that and yes, there will be just a few that turn out ok, listenable, but not amazing. I always thoroughly rinse of course and am careful about vacuuming. I read about a lot of folks overdoing it on vacuuming and complaining about static and noise and then blaming the machine or something else.
It is more labor intensive, but I don't mind because I like vinyl and am willing to do the work to enjoy it. Some records get clean and totally quiet in one pass with one fluid, some require 2 passes and maybe more fluids and a small few go 4 passes. That's where I stop. If a record does not come clean to my liking after 4 passes, out it goes to the local record shop as a donation. Fortunately, I have only had maybe 3 or 4 of those in the last few years.
That said though, knowing how ultrasonics works and having a US cleaner for my glasses demonstrating how it works (I know, different level, but same exact theory and effect), I'd love an US RCM to use as the final step, but with only 400+ records and being a non-audiophile and as a member of the lower class I can't justify or afford getting one. (If I had four digits worth of records or close to it I'd have to find a way to get a US RCM because I could not live without one with that many records).
Like I said though, I do alright for myself with my current set up and knowledge of cleaning records. (Something I dedicated myself to study for a year before cleaning my first record). I look at some of the things folks on that other site do to clean their records and just shake my head no. Bathroom cleaner, toilet cleaner, SoftScrub, Glue, Simple Green, straight Alcohol....Really? Obviously they have no clue as to what interacts with and effects PVC, stabilizers, etc. and what dirts are normally found on records and how things react with those dirts, etc. Really sad.

Yesterday I purchased Pink Floyd: Endless River - Deluxe Audiophile Edition [Vinyl].

I brought the LP home and spun Disc 1 Side A and immediately, the disk was audibly probably the worst sounding of all the vinyl I have listened too...to-date. From the blank lead-in to the first three minutes plus, scratchy sounds, pliff pliff pliff and other awful sounds. As though I was playing my stylus though mud and oh...muddy did it sound. I thought, sheesh. I just spend nearly $50 bucks on this...I'm going to have to return it to the store for a refund or exchange it.

I played Disc 1 Side B and Disc 2 Sides A-B. All sides very unpleasant, but Disc 1 Side A utter junk and a misery to listen too.

Then I remembered, uh... I have all these cleaning machines [VPI HW27 Typhoon + AudioDesk + Klaudio]. No need to despair after all.

The first step, I ran both discs through the Klaudio machine 3x at 5 minute intervals. [testing the sound between each cycle].

While there was sonic improvement, Disc 1 Side A was still virtually unplayable or rather, unenjoyable and boarded offensive to my ears. The opposite side and Disc 2 Side A-B were now tollerable. Even so, I was unable to get through the first 3 or so minutes of play on Disc 1 Side A without having to lift the tone arm and cycle through the KL several times.

I gave up :grumpy:

I ran all discs equal times through the AudioDesk with similar results stated above. Nothing revolutionary to report. Sonic clarity, yes and the noisiness of the disk also became clearer too.

I finally opened up the new bottle of L' Art du Son that I purchased a few weeks ago and created a bottle of 1 liter of RCM cleaning solution. I then returned to my now dedicated Vinyl cleaning room with both discs and, of course, plopped Disc 1 Side A onto the VPI HW27 Typhoon and began the cleaning process. I sprayed the disk liberally with the L' Art du Son and became the forward and backward cycle. I ran the reverse cycle for two minutes making certain the fluid did not evaporate and then an additional two minutes forward motion and reapplied the solution just to keep it very wet. Once these processes complete, I vacuumed the disc and then removed the vacuum tube and noticed that the felt had all this white junk. Mmmmm

I then tested Disc 1 Side A. BOOM! EVERY scratchy pliff pliff pliff gone! Infact, The song 'Things Left Unsaid' is a joy to hear. Simply beautify. I did a lot of reading about L' Art du Son and ran the disc through the same at length process a few more times - testing in between and found that the sonic clarity continued to expand. Instruments became airy, loose, energetic, forward, approachable, personable and free flowing rather than sounding strangled as it once was.

My final cleaning process:

VPI HW27 Typhoon + L' Art du Son RCM cleaner + AudioDesk + Klaudio >>>>>>Boom! & Rock 'N Roll!

Originally Posted by billhart

Have no basis to disagree with your experience, but as I mentioned on another forum where you raised the issue of the KL being ineffective, I suggested, based on what you described, that your KL might be defective, and thought you agreed.

Oh, its been replaced with a brand spanking new one because they did find a transiant issue. even so, using both processes is working very well. Using ultrasonic does seem to improve sonic clarity...but vinyl noise remains for me. using a traditional RCM is making my vinyl listen remarable.

After 10 total ultrasonic runs were done FIRST, TESTED (Played) and sounded sonically improved but so noisy that the discs remained unplayable.


I've attached photos so show what the vacuum tube felt looked like after one run through using L' Art du Son on the VPI old school vacuum style RCM.


[The 1st photo is Disc 1 Side A and the 2nd photo is Disc 1 Side B]
[The 3rd photo is Disc 2 Side A and the 4th photo is Disc 2 Side B]


Notice all the white debris? Each tube felt show various degrees of debris. The third photo show only a few dots of debris whereas the remaining three are fairly dirty.


Once the old school RCM cleaning was done, Pink Floyd: The Endless River sounded spectacular. And yes, I did run the discs through the Ultrasonics [both AudioDesk and Klaudio after the old school test run to remove any remaining debris as well as any cleaning agent]


As I have mentioned repeatedly, I concurrently have all three machines and am aggressively testing. Thus far, using both Vacuum and Ultrasonic work great together.


Perhaps ClearAudio is on to something with there Double Matrix Sonic.

Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor

Perhaps a different stylus would solve the issue. Or there's something off with the cartridge or alignment. I don't have any of the issues you describe with my vinyl. Even old LPs.I also wonder if that RCF uses a LAST like substance. Hope not.

I have a brand new Ortofon Windfeld installed by a ClearAudio installation professional. L' Art du Son is definately not a LAST chemical.

Originally Posted by Mike

David, I shared your findings with a friend who has the Klaudio and he was not surprised. I'm going to get him to clean some records on his Klaudio, bring them over, we will listen and then clean them on my AudioDesk, listen again and compare. To be fair, we should also do the opposite. Clean some on my AD first, listen, clean on his Klaudio and then compare. Hopefully we can get this done.

And compare on a vacuum system too. Last night, i repeated the process on another vinyl and picked up loads of junk too. [Diva Soundtrack]. Sounds remarkable now. For me, using both machine types achieves Nirvana.

Before my audio deske I had a VPI 16.5 and tried lots of different cleaning agents. The one that proved least harmful and yet cleaned the best (quiet and no haze / opened everything up) was the L' Art du Son. I wish there was fast automatic RCM like auto desk that would use L' Art du Son

Originally Posted by MikeCh

Interesting comparisons David, thanks for sharing all your work.

I find it a bit puzzling that if the US RCM's are supposed to be as good as they are touted that there would be that much white gunk left for the VPI vacuum system to remove. Why didn't the US RCM machines remove that gunk during one of the (three or ten US cycles combined did you say?) passes beforehand? Could it be possible that the US machines loosened that gunk but had no way to remove it during the US cycle so it re-attached?

The way I understand it, the US process is supposed to completely pulverize any of the foreign matter/debris/detritus so it's interesting that there was that much gunk that came off and onto the VPI tube wand.

Would be interested to see if you have similar results with other records now that you're using the three-step-three-machine process as your standard.

Thanks.

Hi Mike,

Are you referring to the Klaudio? My processes included 10x [5x on the AudioDesk (German) and then 5x on the Klaudio (USA, Made in Korea)] then on the VPI 1x (USA).

As I type this, I am running similar processes on vinyl and repeatedly getting similar results. I'm puzzled. Is it the L' Art du Son that is loosing the debris?

I can tell you this, after the final clean because I am running the VPI + L' Art du Son and then through both the AudioDesk and Klaudio, that when I place the now very cleaned vinyl on to the TT and when the stylus hits the first lead-in groove. SILKY SMOOTH. Not a single snap crackle pop or that hint of "flu flu" static, or whatever.

Originally Posted by Dpod4

Before my audio deske I had a VPI 16.5 and tried lots of different cleaning agents. The one that proved least harmful and yet cleaned the best (quiet and no haze / opened everything up) was the L' Art du Son. I wish there was fast automatic RCM like auto desk that would use L' Art du Son

Me too. What I would like to do is find out from Klaudio in writing if it would be ok to use the L' Art du Son in their ultrasonic. Now that would be a great experiment! What if the two proved to be the perfect mix? I would not need to go through this pain in the tail process of cleaning. Make no mistake about it. The Klaudio is a beautiful machine and clearly designed to perfection. Would a touch of L' Art du Son be so wrong?

Just now processed the Diva SoundTrack LP through the same process mentioned above. The opera singers voice, Wilhelmenia Fernandez just explodes right off the vinyl. I am utterly blown away. And as I write this, the Promenade Sentimental Piano solo: V. Cosma evokes a greater emotion. You can almost hear the piano key strokes. Lush and warm.

Originally Posted by MikeCh

Hi David, yes I was referring to both Ultrasonic (US) machines in that running a disc either thru both US types or even one for that many passes didn't seem to remove what the VPI did.

Your experimentation is telling me that using both a typical vacuum type RCM PLUS running thru at least one Ultrasonic type RCM would be the answer to attaining the best LP cleaning regimen.

Carry on, you're doing a great job on your records.

Hmmm, now to figure out a way to add an US RCM to my regimen as well since I currently use a VPI 17 only. It does a great job, but adding a US RCM would be ideal for the final step.

Mike, what I am eager to test is the ClearAudio Double Matrix Sonic [not to be confused with Ultrasonic]. This machine is essentially doing what I am processing through three machines. I am obviously, curious.

Originally Posted by MikeCh

but adding a US RCM would be ideal for the final step.

Try out the L' Art du Son fluid first. See if you get satisfactory results. My experimentation has come at a severe cost, an excess of $10,000 and will be more once I purchase the ClearAudio Double Matrix Sonic.

The L' Art du Son costs $45. And to be honest, processing the vinyl alone on the VPI with distilled water + L' Art du Son has been remarkable alone.

[QUOTE=Myles B. Astor;129767]

Originally Posted by MikeCh

I mentioned in my review the crud on the stylus after cleaning with either the AD or KLaudio machines. It was rare but IIrC only seemed to happen on old, used records and thought they might have been treated with LAST. But given the many varieties and qualities of vinyl used to press LPs over the years, it could have been in retrospect some plasticizer leaching from cheap vinyl. BTW, I noted in some cases more noise with the Typhoon after cleaning an LP.

Myles, I am doing a baseline experiment. I have a duplicate lp "Ambrosia" that I am going to experiment with. Right not it is clean...very clean. I am doing some laundry...all day. I am going to take the lint and rub it in circular rotations 7x per side. Then I will wash it in the Klaudio and run through 4 5min rotations and test on my MT10 + Ortonfon Windfeld.

Then I run it through the AudioDesk with a 1x clean process, then text on on my turntable and finally, run a cleaning process on the VPI with the L' Art du Son and again test.

My hope is that the Klaudio makes going through the AudioDesk and VPI a waste of time.

[QUOTE=Golucid;129769]

Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor

Myles, I am doing a baseline experiment. I have a duplicate lp "Ambrosia" that I am going to experiment with. Right not it is clean...very clean. I am doing some laundry...all day. I am going to take the lint and rub it in circular rotations 7x per side. Then I will wash it in the Klaudio and run through 4 5min rotations and test on my MT10 + Ortonfon Windfeld.

Then I run it through the AudioDesk with a 1x clean process, then text on on my turntable and finally, run a cleaning process on the VPI with the L' Art du Son and again test.

My hope is that the Klaudio makes going through the AudioDesk and VPI a waste of time.

Don't the Klaudio and the AudioDesk do the exact same thing in same way?