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  1. #1

    Question on the benefits of upgrading turntable/cartridge

    This may be a question which some find quite naive, but for someone who cannot hear much above 10,000 Hz, has moderate tinnitus, but would like to get all the benefits she can from listening time.......

    My current configuration has NAD C 546BEE, Yamaha P-750, Shure M97xE, NAD PP4, Mark Levinson No. 38, Mark Levinson No. 27.5, Belden 1800F Balanced, Canare 4S11 Bi-Wire Cables, BJC LC-1 Stereo Audio Cables, Totem Acoustics Element Metal, Totem Acoustics Thunder II Sub and in the past McIntosh 4280, NAD L810's, Quad ESL 63's, Finnish Subwoofer Stands, Vandersteen Subs, Theta Data Series II Lasar Disc Transport and DAC. So,here it is:

    From the Yamaha P-750/Shure M97xE, what sound benefits could I obtain from going to a turntable/cartridge, at the following price levels:
    $1,000, $2,000, $4,000?

    I will be anxiously awaiting some interesting comments. Thanks for those who reply.
    Msmoto, aka Ms. Tommie Lauer

    MAIN
    Totem Acoustics Element Metal, Totem Acoustics Thunder II Sub, VTL 5.5 Series II Pre Amp, VTL S200 Amplifier with KT88's, Pro-Ject RPM 5 Carbon, Sumiko Blue Point No. 2, NAD PP4, NAD C 546BEE, Bluesound Vault 2, Belden 1800F Balanced, Canare 4S11 Bi-Wire Cables, BJC LC-1 Stereo Audio Cables
    OTHER
    Vienna Acoustics Bach, Onkyo TX-8160
    PREVIOUS
    Quad ESL 63's, Finnish Subwoofer Stands, Vandersteen Subs, Mark Levinson No. 38, McIntosh 4280, ADS L810's, Theta Data Series II Lasar Disc Transport and DAC

  2. #2
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    Re: Question on the benefits of upgrading turntable/cartridge

    Hello Ms. Lauer, you have a wonderful system. I would recommend the Ortofon 2M Black in the "under $1000 range" ($755). The Ortofon Candenza Black in the $2000 range ($2729) and the Ortofon Windfield in the $4000 range ($4094). The first cartridge is a MM, the last two are MC. You will want to ensure your phonostage/preamp can handle MC. If not, then the Ortofon 2M Black at $755 is a wonderful MM cart.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

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  3. #3

    Question on the benefits of upgrading turntable/cartridge

    Mike...I think Ms. Lauer was talking about upgrading both TT and cart at the different price points/budgets ($1/2/4K), not just the cartridge.
    Cyril
    Speakers/Amp/Preamp: Thiel CS2.4 / ARC Ref 110 / ARC Ref 3
    Sources: Basis 2001/Graham2.2/Nagra BPS/Benz Micro Glider SL, Dynavector 20X2-L, ARC CD7, Oppo BDP-83 SE
    Cables/Power/Other: Nordost Heimdall ICs, SCs / Shunyata Hydra 8, Shunyata Python Helix PC / VPI 16.5, HRS Nimbus isolation system

  4. #4
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    Re: Question on the benefits of upgrading turntable/cartridge

    Oh, in that case, I would put a Ortofon 2M Black on a VPI Scout. That will be ~ $2900.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Audio Research, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Ayre Acoustics, Berkeley Audio Design, Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, EMM Labs, Esoteric, Estelon Loudspeakers, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Gryphon Audio, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stenheim Loudspeakers, Stillpoints, T+A Electronics, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, Vivid Audio Loudspeakers, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
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    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  5. #5
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    Re: Question on the benefits of upgrading turntable/cartridge

    Quote Originally Posted by Msmoto View Post
    This may be a question which some find quite naive, but for someone who cannot hear much above 10,000 Hz, has moderate tinnitus, but would like to get all the benefits she can from listening time.......

    My current configuration has NAD C 546BEE, Yamaha P-750, Shure M97xE, NAD PP4, Mark Levinson No. 38, Mark Levinson No. 27.5, Belden 1800F Balanced, Canare 4S11 Bi-Wire Cables, BJC LC-1 Stereo Audio Cables, Totem Acoustics Element Metal, Totem Acoustics Thunder II Sub and in the past McIntosh 4280, NAD L810's, Quad ESL 63's, Finnish Subwoofer Stands, Vandersteen Subs, Theta Data Series II Lasar Disc Transport and DAC. So,here it is:

    From the Yamaha P-750/Shure M97xE, what sound benefits could I obtain from going to a turntable/cartridge, at the following price levels:
    $1,000, $2,000, $4,000?

    I will be anxiously awaiting some interesting comments. Thanks for those who reply.
    A non TT question , have you had your 63's serviced / rebuilt , if not you are leaving alot above 8K on the table , the extra improvement in drive and extension will be noticable ...

  6. #6
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    Re: Question on the benefits of upgrading turntable/cartridge

    Is there anything specific you are looking for? Or just wanting to make a change?

    Several good options in your price range, but off hand, I would consider the Rega P3/Elys at the $1000 price point, Rega RP6/Exact at the $2000 price point, VPI Scout and 2m Black at around the $3000 price point, and the Rega RP8/Apheta (if you can run MC carts) at the $4000 price point.
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  7. #7
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    Re: Question on the benefits of upgrading turntable/cartridge

    First let me say from what you have posted here it seems like you enjoy good sounding audio. I feel regardless of a limit in hearing range it shouldn't prevent you from enjoying or noticing the range you, can, hear.

    From that you should be able to hear improvements as you go up in quality, but as you know, some gear is a better value than others. I find analog one of the more difficult areas of audio because there seems to be less "rules of thumb" if you will, it's like folks sort of do their own thing. I go about it trying to balance the cost of table, cart & phono, within reason. I say that because as before some gear is more capable. As example, I personally wouldn't put a $2k cart on a sub $1k table, I read were guys have put Lyra on a Rega P3. I feel each area will eventually have it's limitation so balance within reason is a good approach. You'll get many suggestions as to brands, again, as in any other area of audio. So listen to things if possible and do some research.

    Of course, I have suggestions as well . At around $1500.00 Marantz offers a Reference table with cart, this gets consistent good reviews and great value. The rig is made for Marantz by Clearaudio. You can also buy the Clearaudio Concept which most times is packaged with a choice of MM or MC cart by same brand. The virtuoso is a nice MM cart in their line and Michael Fremer says the Maestro may be one of the best MM carts ever made. I also like Ortofon which happens to work great on Clearaudio tables. Clearaudio concentrates on eliminating distortion so you will find their gear has a distinct different presentation from the likes of VPI or Rega. I've owned Rega and loved the table, what you use/choose is all about preference. I will say when I had my Rega I used the Elys cart that was eventually replaced by a Dynavector 10x5 that sounded tons better in my opinion. I've not heard one yet but in that $3k to $4k range you'd have to consider Well Tempered Labs, in my research I don't think I found anything with more consistent raves, but the design has it's quirks.

    As you go up in analog quality you should be noticing better detail, less noise or quieter background, and overall better sound. Not so unlike other audio gear. A good set up is crucial though and the quality and condition of the LP.
    Aurender ACS10 w/AQ Diamond,
    Mark Levinson #526, Coda Continuum 8 , JBL 4367's
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    Parasound P5, Coda CSX, Artisan speakers

  8. #8

    Re: Question on the benefits of upgrading turntable/cartridge

    Thanks for the input. I am looking at the suggestions, will consult with my supplier and bring back his recommendations here for your review.

    Oh, a note re the Quads.... I gave them away, free once they were totally burned up. Cost to rebuild was about $3500, decided not to go that route. After several years I had renewed interest in listening to nice music, the result is what I have now.

    And, I prefer a crisp detailed almost "bright" presentation as IMO this is what I hear at a live venue. For example, the organs I have listened to have an almost brilliance in the upper registers, and earth shaking peddles... My ears can hear this better with non-tube, brighter speakers... which of course is what I have.

    See you later...
    Msmoto, aka Ms. Tommie Lauer

    MAIN
    Totem Acoustics Element Metal, Totem Acoustics Thunder II Sub, VTL 5.5 Series II Pre Amp, VTL S200 Amplifier with KT88's, Pro-Ject RPM 5 Carbon, Sumiko Blue Point No. 2, NAD PP4, NAD C 546BEE, Bluesound Vault 2, Belden 1800F Balanced, Canare 4S11 Bi-Wire Cables, BJC LC-1 Stereo Audio Cables
    OTHER
    Vienna Acoustics Bach, Onkyo TX-8160
    PREVIOUS
    Quad ESL 63's, Finnish Subwoofer Stands, Vandersteen Subs, Mark Levinson No. 38, McIntosh 4280, ADS L810's, Theta Data Series II Lasar Disc Transport and DAC

  9. #9
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    Re: Question on the benefits of upgrading turntable/cartridge

    One truth that I have found over the years ...

    On digital, there comes a price point where you are paying for name or a manufacturer's house sound rather than any kind of real improvement in resolution and such.

    On Vinyl, you can continue to spend more and more money and will continue to realize improvements.

    My suggestion is to go for the best rig you can afford, and don't forget the quality of the phono preamp in your equation.
    Vine, Vide, Velcro - I came, I saw, I stuck around.

  10. #10

    Re: Question on the benefits of upgrading turntable/cartridge

    Any thoughts on the following Pro-Ject Turntables:

    2Xperience SB Gloss Mahogany - Olive - Piano with Sumiko Blue Point mounted

    RPM 5 Carbon with the Sumiko Blue Point mounted

    RP-9 with the blackbird cartridge
    Msmoto, aka Ms. Tommie Lauer

    MAIN
    Totem Acoustics Element Metal, Totem Acoustics Thunder II Sub, VTL 5.5 Series II Pre Amp, VTL S200 Amplifier with KT88's, Pro-Ject RPM 5 Carbon, Sumiko Blue Point No. 2, NAD PP4, NAD C 546BEE, Bluesound Vault 2, Belden 1800F Balanced, Canare 4S11 Bi-Wire Cables, BJC LC-1 Stereo Audio Cables
    OTHER
    Vienna Acoustics Bach, Onkyo TX-8160
    PREVIOUS
    Quad ESL 63's, Finnish Subwoofer Stands, Vandersteen Subs, Mark Levinson No. 38, McIntosh 4280, ADS L810's, Theta Data Series II Lasar Disc Transport and DAC

  11. #11
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    Re: Question on the benefits of upgrading turntable/cartridge

    I believe the 9 & Blackbird would be the best combo out of what you listed.

    If possible I'd compare it to a Rega RP6 or 8 with a Dynavector cart, the DV10x5 high output MC it good but the next model up is a nice jump in performance, the number escapes me. Or, a Clearaudio Concept with an Ortofon Quintet Black, MC. The Concept will show you don't always have to pay a fortune to get excellent performance.

    With your comments I'd encourage you to get a listen to a Lehmann ohono stage.
    Aurender ACS10 w/AQ Diamond,
    Mark Levinson #526, Coda Continuum 8 , JBL 4367's
    Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
    All Clarus Crimson cabling, AC to binding post. Surgex
    HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
    SVS PC13 Ultra
    Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
    Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP
    Parasound P5, Coda CSX, Artisan speakers

  12. #12

    Re: Question on the benefits of upgrading turntable/cartridge

    After some consideration, listening to a couple tables, I decided on the RPM 5 Carbon with the Sumiko Blue Point Cart. This was in my estimation the most appropriate cost/benefit option, as I have only 180 LP's, Thus at $1500, this was a little over $8 per LP....oh, how some people think...LOL

    I suspect if I get caught up in accumulating more LP's, I can always go up, but it might be my entire system needs upgrading...... I guess I need to buy my Lotto ticket soon.....

    In any case, I appreciate the input, will maybe drop some posts on some of the listening threads as I enjoy my Christmas present to myself.
    Msmoto, aka Ms. Tommie Lauer

    MAIN
    Totem Acoustics Element Metal, Totem Acoustics Thunder II Sub, VTL 5.5 Series II Pre Amp, VTL S200 Amplifier with KT88's, Pro-Ject RPM 5 Carbon, Sumiko Blue Point No. 2, NAD PP4, NAD C 546BEE, Bluesound Vault 2, Belden 1800F Balanced, Canare 4S11 Bi-Wire Cables, BJC LC-1 Stereo Audio Cables
    OTHER
    Vienna Acoustics Bach, Onkyo TX-8160
    PREVIOUS
    Quad ESL 63's, Finnish Subwoofer Stands, Vandersteen Subs, Mark Levinson No. 38, McIntosh 4280, ADS L810's, Theta Data Series II Lasar Disc Transport and DAC

  13. #13

    Re: Question on the benefits of upgrading turntable/cartridge

    Ms. Lauer...congrats on your new record player. I am sure the RPM5 with the Sumiko Bluepoint Cart will deliver great sound. If you decide to upgrade down the road you can always upgrade the cart first before moving up on TT. Most importantly though make sure you get the table and cartridge set up properly, which will be the biggest determinant of sound quality. If you are not familiar with how to do this, make sure your local audio dealer presumably from whom you purchased the TT does the setup for you.
    Cyril
    Speakers/Amp/Preamp: Thiel CS2.4 / ARC Ref 110 / ARC Ref 3
    Sources: Basis 2001/Graham2.2/Nagra BPS/Benz Micro Glider SL, Dynavector 20X2-L, ARC CD7, Oppo BDP-83 SE
    Cables/Power/Other: Nordost Heimdall ICs, SCs / Shunyata Hydra 8, Shunyata Python Helix PC / VPI 16.5, HRS Nimbus isolation system

  14. #14
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    Re: Question on the benefits of upgrading turntable/cartridge

    Enjoy! You probably know this, but in case, the cart will begin sounding it's best about the time you get halfway through playing your current collection.
    Quote Originally Posted by Msmoto View Post
    After some consideration, listening to a couple tables, I decided on the RPM 5 Carbon with the Sumiko Blue Point Cart. This was in my estimation the most appropriate cost/benefit option, as I have only 180 LP's, Thus at $1500, this was a little over $8 per LP....oh, how some people think...LOL

    I suspect if I get caught up in accumulating more LP's, I can always go up, but it might be my entire system needs upgrading...... I guess I need to buy my Lotto ticket soon.....

    In any case, I appreciate the input, will maybe drop some posts on some of the listening threads as I enjoy my Christmas present to myself.
    Aurender ACS10 w/AQ Diamond,
    Mark Levinson #526, Coda Continuum 8 , JBL 4367's
    Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
    All Clarus Crimson cabling, AC to binding post. Surgex
    HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
    SVS PC13 Ultra
    Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
    Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP
    Parasound P5, Coda CSX, Artisan speakers

  15. #15

    Re: Question on the benefits of upgrading turntable/cartridge

    So, the sound is phenomenal...have never heard vinyl like this. And, the look is not too bad as well.....

    Prp-Ject RPM 5 Carbon_II_12.30.2016_TFL-1 by Tommie Lauer, on Flickr
    Msmoto, aka Ms. Tommie Lauer

    MAIN
    Totem Acoustics Element Metal, Totem Acoustics Thunder II Sub, VTL 5.5 Series II Pre Amp, VTL S200 Amplifier with KT88's, Pro-Ject RPM 5 Carbon, Sumiko Blue Point No. 2, NAD PP4, NAD C 546BEE, Bluesound Vault 2, Belden 1800F Balanced, Canare 4S11 Bi-Wire Cables, BJC LC-1 Stereo Audio Cables
    OTHER
    Vienna Acoustics Bach, Onkyo TX-8160
    PREVIOUS
    Quad ESL 63's, Finnish Subwoofer Stands, Vandersteen Subs, Mark Levinson No. 38, McIntosh 4280, ADS L810's, Theta Data Series II Lasar Disc Transport and DAC

  16. #16
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    Re: Question on the benefits of upgrading turntable/cartridge

    Hello Msmoto

    Your system looks killer overall! The suggestions given by the other members were good ones. I was tickled to see you bring the Project units in to the discussion. My first high end Turn Table was a Project Perspex 6 with a Sumiko Blackbird MC cart. It did seriously good music reproduction and was magnetically isolated from the base structure so very little noise feedback. Since having that tableIíve spent tons more on a Reference level table but can honestly say I still think of that table and cart combo often. I have a phono pre that can handle two Tables at the same time but just donít have the real estate to support a second table. If I did I would have them now.

    One suggestion for your current table is to purchase a Project Speedbox II to control the rpm speed more precisely. (I donít elieve your table has built in speed control). First it will really bring the sound quality up considerably (you will be amazed). Next, no more having to change the position of the belt, simply push the button to go from 33 1/3 to 45 rpm. The box is not very expensive at all (probably new at under $750 if memory serves me correctly). Congrats on your table. Enjoy!

    Olskool (Larry)


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    ARC Ref 210 Mono's, ARC Ref 5SE, ARC Ref Phono2, NordostTyr1interconnects, NAD M5 CD/SACD, Linn LP12, Ekos 1, Booplinth, Lyra Delos cart, Kore, HRS1 Isolation table, Pioneer RT-707 Reel, Wilson Sophia, Nordost Tyr speaker cables, Kubala Sosna Emotion Interconnects / Power Cable, QB4 conditioner, StillPoint SS Isolation, StillPoint Aperatures, Nordost Power cables, ASC Tube Traps

  17. #17
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    Re: Question on the benefits of upgrading turntable/cartridge

    Quote Originally Posted by Msmoto View Post
    So, the sound is phenomenal...have never heard vinyl like this. And, the look is not too bad as well.....

    Prp-Ject RPM 5 Carbon_II_12.30.2016_TFL-1 by Tommie Lauer, on Flickr
    Hello Msmoto

    Your system looks killer overall! The suggestions given by the other members were good ones. I was tickled to see you bring the Project units in to the discussion. My first high end Turn Table was a Project Perspex 6 with a Sumiko Blackbird MC cart. It did seriously good music reproduction and was magnetically isolated from the base structure so very little noise feedback. Since having that tableIíve spent tons more on a Reference level table but can honestly say I still think of that table and cart combo often. I have a phono pre that can handle two Tables at the same time but just donít have the real estate to support a second table. If I did I would have them now.

    One suggestion for your current table is to purchase a Project Speedbox II to control the rpm speed more precisely. (I donít elieve your table has built in speed control). First it will really bring the sound quality up considerably (you will be amazed). Next, no more having to change the position of the belt, simply push the button to go from 33 1/3 to 45 rpm. The box is not very expensive at all (probably new at under $750 if memory serves me correctly). Congrats on your table. Enjoy!

    Olskool (Larry)


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    ARC Ref 210 Mono's, ARC Ref 5SE, ARC Ref Phono2, NordostTyr1interconnects, NAD M5 CD/SACD, Linn LP12, Ekos 1, Booplinth, Lyra Delos cart, Kore, HRS1 Isolation table, Pioneer RT-707 Reel, Wilson Sophia, Nordost Tyr speaker cables, Kubala Sosna Emotion Interconnects / Power Cable, QB4 conditioner, StillPoint SS Isolation, StillPoint Aperatures, Nordost Power cables, ASC Tube Traps

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Question on the benefits of upgrading turntable/cartridge

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