Michael Fremer would emphatically disagree with you
$25k budget for new system. How would you spend it?
- Thread starter JohnnyMusic
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Michael Fremer would emphatically disagree with you
a.wayne
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Dont be so hard on yourself ...!
TheOctopus
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As to the theory of a "garbage-in, garbage-out", electronics and front ends being a bottle-neck and cables needing a certain not insignificant investment, I say this is nonsense in most discussions but the last stages of a serious system being optimized for the listener's taste.
Chances are that anyone asking for help putting a whole system together is not in a position to be judging a system for some pinnacle of accuracy or trying to reach the summit of audio nirvana. There is no way to quantify a meaningful and worthwhile investment between a budget DAC and a super DAC. There is no way to quantify if one is actually a more accurate or somehow superior other than measurements and we don't like measurements. Especially so with difference in cables.
Going by "ear", since we don't have a mechanism to gauge a system for "accuracy", or a "fidelity meter", even the experienced audiophile is relying on his preference based on how good his/her ears are functioning and what they believe is the closer presentation to the fidelity of the actual recording. Another words what their belief is of what a recording should sound like. Since it will never technically sound the same, even with the same components in two different rooms, the room/speaker interaction is the most important factor.
Choosing speakers that will get the foot tapping and the head bopping and the brings a smile, every time you fire up your favorite recording, be it moderate or party loudness levels, should be priority number 1.
How that pair of speakers will integrate into a room, should optimally be discussed with a dealer and perhaps arrange for a home audition/trial.
As to the other stuff, there is no way to gauge what exactly would be amiss with a lesser DAC or an amplifier that perhaps sounds a tiny bit different... and can easily be explored over the next phases of the hobby throwing money hand over fist at the elusive and unquantifiable target until it gets old....
Chances are that anyone asking for help putting a whole system together is not in a position to be judging a system for some pinnacle of accuracy or trying to reach the summit of audio nirvana. There is no way to quantify a meaningful and worthwhile investment between a budget DAC and a super DAC. There is no way to quantify if one is actually a more accurate or somehow superior other than measurements and we don't like measurements. Especially so with difference in cables.
Going by "ear", since we don't have a mechanism to gauge a system for "accuracy", or a "fidelity meter", even the experienced audiophile is relying on his preference based on how good his/her ears are functioning and what they believe is the closer presentation to the fidelity of the actual recording. Another words what their belief is of what a recording should sound like. Since it will never technically sound the same, even with the same components in two different rooms, the room/speaker interaction is the most important factor.
Choosing speakers that will get the foot tapping and the head bopping and the brings a smile, every time you fire up your favorite recording, be it moderate or party loudness levels, should be priority number 1.
How that pair of speakers will integrate into a room, should optimally be discussed with a dealer and perhaps arrange for a home audition/trial.
As to the other stuff, there is no way to gauge what exactly would be amiss with a lesser DAC or an amplifier that perhaps sounds a tiny bit different... and can easily be explored over the next phases of the hobby throwing money hand over fist at the elusive and unquantifiable target until it gets old....
a.wayne
Active member
Everything matters, But ..!
The Speaker/amp combination is everything, the difference in fidelity at the other end between source and pre drive components will affect the sound far less..
Its academic really ...!
The Speaker/amp combination is everything, the difference in fidelity at the other end between source and pre drive components will affect the sound far less..
Its academic really ...!
ornt
New member
If, by late night listening, you mean low volume listening....
I like larger size woofers for listening at very low volumes when others are sleeping, etc.
I notice better bass balance with mids when playing soft, and more bass detail when playing soft or loud.
I like larger size woofers for listening at very low volumes when others are sleeping, etc.
I notice better bass balance with mids when playing soft, and more bass detail when playing soft or loud.
jadedavid
New member
not familiar with his set up. Any details?
Mr Peabody
Active member
It really don't matter, but, my preamp also has a DAC & Class A phono stage, so things still balance out.
Mr Peabody
Active member
I can tell reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, or, you like to twist what people say to forward your troll like tendencies.
Wilson Chronosonic XVX in a room that is under 20 feet in both length and width
Thanks Professor 'P', if you understood my post (tongue in cheek) I was using an ounce of levity. Regardless, I gather you're still trying to recover from the Cardinals losing to the Dodgers the other night ..........
TheOctopus
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For $325k or whatever they cost exactly, Fremer could have bought a modest house out in the country and build out a real listening room. But then he wouldn’t have XVX and all that vinyl would be a b^tch to move
jadedavid
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not totally unreasonable. Now if you said those speakers in a 10 X 10 room, well that's a different story.
TheOctopus
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It may as well be a 10x10 with all the stuff in there but Mickey is happy and his whole life's work and passion is in that room so that's all that matters.
a.wayne
Active member
It can be a good sounding space, the clutter dampens and diffuses chaotically , i have seen many rooms like that with actual good sound ..
Regards
Regards
jadedavid
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It may as well be a 10x10 with all the stuff in there but Mickey is happy and his whole life's work and passion is in that room so that's all that matters.
OMG
TheOctopus
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Re: $25k budget for new system. How would you spend i
Image density, specificity, focus is typically sacrificed in cluttered rooms. I have yet to hear a palpable 3-D presentation of the sound stage in very cluttered rooms. The odd angles of objects scatter the sound field in unpredictable ways and vectors, thereby decreasing the palatability factor by a significant margin. What I have heard in my friends room many years ago, which was treated and meticulously set up by a very talented recording engineer from Chicago was surreal. The musicians took a few steps outside the speakers towards the listener and their bodies were present with reach out and touch me palpable, from head to toes focus and image density / specificity.
I have chased that effect for years and built out a designated listening room in my new construction house , based on the golden ratio with 11 foot ceilings, 30 feet length 17 foot width and spent a small fortune on acoustic treatments. I didn’t quite get there as what I heard for many years in my friends system. One day he had to move the speakers and make some changes to the room… the effect was lost forever never to be quite that palpable and three-dimensional again.
Sometimes all the stars seem to align… so perhaps Mikey’s system is that good in that room.
Image density, specificity, focus is typically sacrificed in cluttered rooms. I have yet to hear a palpable 3-D presentation of the sound stage in very cluttered rooms. The odd angles of objects scatter the sound field in unpredictable ways and vectors, thereby decreasing the palatability factor by a significant margin. What I have heard in my friends room many years ago, which was treated and meticulously set up by a very talented recording engineer from Chicago was surreal. The musicians took a few steps outside the speakers towards the listener and their bodies were present with reach out and touch me palpable, from head to toes focus and image density / specificity.
I have chased that effect for years and built out a designated listening room in my new construction house , based on the golden ratio with 11 foot ceilings, 30 feet length 17 foot width and spent a small fortune on acoustic treatments. I didn’t quite get there as what I heard for many years in my friends system. One day he had to move the speakers and make some changes to the room… the effect was lost forever never to be quite that palpable and three-dimensional again.
Sometimes all the stars seem to align… so perhaps Mikey’s system is that good in that room.
FastEddy
New member
I would spend the money on Paradigm (Canada, eh) Founder 100F speakers and Boulder 866 integrated with built in streamer/DAC.
Hi JohnnyMusic,
There is some good advice here and maybe not what you were expecting to hear.
Have you listened to any of that gear you listed? If not, give it a listen. The B&W and Monitor Audio 5g 200 gold speakers are completely different, especially the tweeters with the MA's using a ribbon tweeter. I don't think that either of those speakers would be good for party's and playing very loud. Since you live in Canada, look at Bryston speakers and electronics. I thought they sounded great at an audio show 2 years ago. They played loud and clear.
By the way, how big is your room?
There is some good advice here and maybe not what you were expecting to hear.
Have you listened to any of that gear you listed? If not, give it a listen. The B&W and Monitor Audio 5g 200 gold speakers are completely different, especially the tweeters with the MA's using a ribbon tweeter. I don't think that either of those speakers would be good for party's and playing very loud. Since you live in Canada, look at Bryston speakers and electronics. I thought they sounded great at an audio show 2 years ago. They played loud and clear.
By the way, how big is your room?