Where's the, "Slam"?

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Penthouse-D

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Hi folks,I like my new system quite a bit. I'd like it more if it had some, "slam", and I could feel it. My room is a bit challenging. About 12'X19. using the width, so 12' deep. speakers are about 18" from the back wall and 8' apart. I just added a new power cord to the amp,and the Furutech outlet is still burning in, I just want to feel the music. Maybe my room is , "dead". All suggestions greatly appreciated. Thanks!!!
 
I'm , "tapped out". The T+A purchase spent my audio budget for at least the next 2 years....... lol I was hoping my placement could be improved. I don't get much volume until about 50 on the PA3100HV. Mike should know if that's normal or not.
 
Yes, Directly into the Furutech outlet. I've heard these outlets take 100's of hours to break-in. I also have a new power cord that seems to be helping without even being burned in yet.. Thanks Keith. LOVE L.A. . Lived in Manhattan Beach and Venice... I still visit often..
 
Sounds like gear is still new and settling in. Did you have slam at some point or just something you want to be the cherry on top?

What difference did you hear with the new cords, was it an improvement or perhaps soften things?

How long have you had the speakers? New speakers take a long time to break in/loosen up. When new the bass is typically very tight. Well, on my Dynaudio the bass was very tight, I didn't think I'd ever get them broke in. My JBL's were wooley in the bass where break in just kept giving me better resolution and going deeper.

You can also play with speaker placement. I think you should be pressurizing your room fairly well. My room is a bit longer than your and about same width, I haven't had much problems with bass with less speakers than yours. Of course, none of mine were sealed. Well.... there was the one time I had a set of Martin Logan Aries, bass rolled off quick after a point. A set of KEF Ref 3's had surprising low end in my room.

T+A has a wide range of gear, I don't remember if I heard your models. Seems a quick articulate bass is common in what I heard. I can say a couple years ago I heard one of their $16k integrated rock a set of Focal Scalla's really well. That was a fun set up.
 
Thank you. Just moved here, gear is new also, except for speakers. I think the speakers, although 3 years old have no more than 250 hours on them. The new power cord for the integrated made an immediate difference. I think it will be a very big difference in a moth or so. Sorry to get sidetracked, never had slam here.... lol
 
That room may just have a suck out in the mid-bass frequencies. Probably need to measure it with test tones and see. Do you have any flexibility in speaker placement like putting the speakers on the short wall. If not you may just have to start all the way against the back wall and move forward until you find the right spot or you don't feel comfortable coming out any further. If all fails it may call for a pair of subs to the outsides of the Magico's to get what you want. And no it doesn't take Q-Subs to do that. Something like a REL T9i or a Rythmik F-12 would do the trick in that room.
 
As an addendum to my first post, I've always had my speakers on the short wall. Just worked out that way, the back has a doorway that opens into another large area. I've never tried the long wall.
 
Where's the, "Slam"?

I’ve heard all the T+A HV series amps incl. the power amp with separate power supply. I also auditioned the integrated in my system for four weeks some time back. I find the T+As have great midrange resolution and nice airy highs, but in my view they do not do slam.

As the T+A amps have otherwise a great sound that is easy to supplement e.g. with REL S5 SHOs. Then you have all the slam you want.

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Since he said his budget for audio gear was shot for a while I don't think $5000+ worth of subs is a reasonable alternative especially in a room that size. What he needs to accomplish can be done much farther down the REL lineup but finding out what the room issues are is the first priority. I have little doubt that my Rythmik subs can hold their own with the REL's you referenced at a third of the price.
 
REL has a speaker matching app on their website and for the S3s they do propose a stereo pair of S5 SHOs for a small room. I think this is also a slightly more modest solution compared to Mike’s suggestion of two Q-sub 15s for 22K a pop [emoji3].

Probably something smaller will be better than nothing. The question just is whether it makes sense to go for something half-way adequate now, after investing in Magicos and the T+A gear.

This is a great hobby, you never have to think long about where to invest next. So many improvement angles, so little time.


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That kind of self serving app is not really something I would pay attention to but to each their own. I rely on measurements and over 45 years of actual experience. So until he measures the room and tries different placement options then spending more money is not the appropriate response. And once that is done and he decides he needs subs then the cost effective owner tested option is more prudent than the "magazine reviewer approved" option. But what do I know, I don't just throw money at problems based on reviewer accolades.
 
Where's the, "Slam"?

You might be somewhat confusing things I guess, the app provides a manufacturer recommendation. Nothing to do with reviewers.

The OP asked for ideas, with the addition all suggestions greatly appreciated. If you think your ideas are better than everyone else’s, good for you. I just thought to chime in with my 2 cts, as I know the amps and have had them in my system, used the app myself to choose the sub which is now in my system and as I had the speakers in my system for a while.

Which of the components have you had in your system, Jack?


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Where's the, "Slam"?

Jack said:
That room may just have a suck out in the mid-bass frequencies. Probably need to measure it with test tones and see. Do you have any flexibility in speaker placement like putting the speakers on the short wall. If not you may just have to start all the way against the back wall and move forward until you find the right spot or you don't feel comfortable coming out any further. If all fails it may call for a pair of subs to the outsides of the Magico's to get what you want. And no it doesn't take Q-Subs to do that. Something like a REL T9i or a Rythmik F-12 would do the trick in that room.
Click to expand...

The problem I’ve found with the REL’s Jack is that they couldn’t keep up with the Magico’s. They work brilliantly with other speakers. When Jim and I listened to the Magico’s with the subs, we felt they were adding nothing and actually taking away. So yes, for slam, you need wickedly fast subs to keep up with the Magico’s and particularly, ones that won’t muddy up the bass. The REL subs with the new Class D amps (in lieu of their old AB amps), would be worth a try.


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Penthouse-D said:
I'm , "tapped out". The T+A purchase spent my audio budget for at least the next 2 years....... lol I was hoping my placement could be improved. I don't get much volume until about 50 on the PA3100HV. Mike should know if that's normal or not.
Click to expand...

Jim, yes, like Kouppis said, it does a lot of things well, but it doesn’t have great “slam”. I honestly think this is one of the strengths of the Diablo 300. Maybe others with the combo can weigh in. Might be worth a swap.


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Jim - how much have you played with speaker placement and more importantly, seating position? It would be worth while measuring (with pink noise), to see if you have a suck out somewhere below 80hz, move your listening position and speakers around to minimize or eliminate that (measure and move at the same time). Move the microphone around as you’re measuring (at ear height) and watch the frequency measurements. You may very well be sitting in a suck out.


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Penthouse-D said:
Yes, Directly into the Furutech outlet. I've heard these outlets take 100's of hours to break-in. I also have a new power cord that seems to be helping without even being burned in yet.. Thanks Keith. LOVE L.A. . Lived in Manhattan Beach and Venice... I still visit often..
Click to expand...

Thats not directly to the wall , i would try directly to the wall ....
 
Mike said:
Jim, yes, like Kouppis said, it does a lot of things well, but it doesn’t have great “slam”. I honestly think this is one of the strengths of the Diablo 300. Maybe others with the combo can weigh in. Might be worth a swap.


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Click to expand...

Diablo 300 with my original S3’s have great slam. At the same time very musical which I think is the greatest strength of Diablo.
I also think my JL 113v2 works great with the Magicos.
Having said that I also found power distribution (I use Denali), power cables (Siltech Ruby Hill) and in my case speaker cables as well (MIT EVO One) help in the area of slam.
I do understand these are no easy or cheap solutions. Perhaps take a quick measure on the room to form an idea. “Analyzer” app maybe a good start.
 
Penthouse-D said:
Yes, Directly into the Furutech outlet. I've heard these outlets take 100's of hours to break-in. I also have a new power cord that seems to be helping without even being burned in yet.. Thanks Keith. LOVE L.A. . Lived in Manhattan Beach and Venice... I still visit often..
Click to expand...

a.wayne said:
Thats not directly to the wall , i would try directly to the wall ....
Click to expand...

If the Furutech outlet is mounted in the wall outlet box and connected to the romex what are you suggesting he do?
 
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