Where are they now?

Mike

Mike

Audioshark
Staff member
Joined
Apr 2, 2013
Messages
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Location
Sarasota, FL
So many audio related companies just fall off the radar. It doesn’t mean they don’t make great stuff, they do. But they just fall off the radar. Ayre, CJ, Krell to name a few.

DynAudio for example was riding high about 10 years ago. Now? I never hear a customer mention them as even an option. And they DO build great speakers and build their own drivers.

What causes the fall from grace?

I see Revel starting down that path as there is no real replacement (yet) for their much beloved Salon 2.

Do companies get distracted? Lose their core focus? Or is it more a tribute to the companies with such incredible staying power like Pass, Shunyata, McIntosh, B&W, Focal, Magico, Wilson? These are the names that come up CONSTANTLY, among others. But I haven’t heard much about Revel, DynAudio, Krell and many others in the last few years. I would imagine it all comes down to the sheer expensive of R&D and marketing. Must be astronomical. Can’t cut corners on either.

My two cents: although getting a review in TAS and/or Stereophile is a great thing for many, there are loads of other excellent places to get your products reviewed:

* SoundStage
* Darko
* Hi-Fi News
* HiFi +
* Analog Planet
* Steve Hoffman
* HeadFi
* The Audiophile Man
* Dagogo
* Enjoy the Music
* Audio Bacon
* Hi-Fi Pig
* Tone
* Positive Feedback
* Mono & Stereo
* and countless others.

My three cents: constant contact is more important than the one Big Bang review. Why? Can’t tell you the number of customers that say “but I was only able to find that one Absolute Sound review on that new (named after a town in California) DAC.” It’s an excellent DAC and the story needs to be told over and over! I guess, a car analogy would be good. Would you buy a car if it just had one good review from Road & Track? Probably not.

Is the falling off the radar due to lack of marketing or poor products or new products that haven’t caught on or something else?
 
I have done personal growth seminars and supervisor skill development training. Both reinforced what I already knew. There are different personality types and they do best at specific tasks. Some people are severely in one camp and can't "multi task".

What I mean is some people are geniuses at developing new products and technology but could not run a company to save their soul. They either lack the skills or desire or both. Many equipment designers would rather be in the lab than behind a desk. Their products and company simply fail from lack of focus on what it takes to become successful.

Building a great whatever does not guarantee success. Promotion and support are essential.
 
Mike, The Tice Clock was very highly reviewed from what I remember...

At the end of the day, there are many reasons why certain brands and products fade and fizzle out. Some that come to mind are lack of appeal due to narrow range of products, not enough innovation/modernization and just riding on your past attempts which only works for true iconic/cult classic products that withstood the test of time. Not keeping up with progress and evolving technology makes the products either obsolete or awkward to use due to lack of function/features. The streaming devices are much more relevant today than a stand alone CD Transport... A DAC better have a USB input or it may only appeal to a very small group of enthusiasts in an already small audiophile market.

Then there are the classics that simply stopped being as appealing due to change of ownership which ultimately did not have the same enthusiastic approach. Krell under Dan D'Agostino was a very different company than it is today. Mark Levinson products were much more appealing during the days before the Harman International acquired the brand. I feel Conrad Johnsons best days may be behind them, same with Ayre and both have solid performing products to offer but have been offering them for quite some time now. Today's world expects NEW every year now or in Apple product cycles.... :)

As far as the younger generations, they tend to value each other's opinions much more as a group from what I have noticed over some years of diving into the headphone culture. They are a more skeptical group as well, many more cable skeptics than our generation. Various accessories are also viewed with skepticism. If it doesn't make an immediate and appreciable difference for the money spent, it has very little chance of catching on.

As far as Wilson, Pass, Magico and a few others that people are constantly talking about... Well McIntosh is an American Icon much like Harley Davidson. It may not be the best but it sure appeals with solid/good enough performance and a FLAIR that people of various age groups can relate to. Not to mention the rich 50 year plus history/legacy. Wilson and Magico are at the cutting/bleeding edge of absolute mastery of modern speaker craft. What else needs to be said here? Their products deliver!

At one point Buick was really cool when the turbo-charged Grand National roamed the streets but now it will stop making sedans and is barely holding on with the few SUV sales. I mean who buys a Buick today????

At one point the engineers were bold and unafraid to push the designs to the edge of creativity, like the American automobiles of the 50s and 60s that the whole world was in awe over.... Now? Well... not so much :) Other than the Corvette, what else is there to be excited about? People are more excited about the stylistically challenged but very fast and silent TESLA then they are about a Dodge Challenger with 700HP. Times change, keep up or be forgotten.... No amount of reviews will help.
 
Avalon is another one. Eggleston, Totem a few more. Its nice to see Kharma back as they disappeared for a long time. Foreign brands tend to do that with distributor woes. And some brands like Rowland are more popular in Asia than probably here for whatever reason. I'm really curious what happens to Gryphon now.

Dyn released the Heritage Special which has buzz and I know several who purchased them. But they seem to be more popular in the mid-tier and the new Confidence line is really expensive.

I think Pass honestly needs a product line update.
 
For companies that are basically a one person force of nature, they can last only with that person. Succession is very difficult. Since many of the companies now have founders who are getting to typical retirement age, I think we will see more of those companies bite the dust. Wilson and VPI have been able to continue with the next generation taking over, VPI fortunate to have Harry still around to smooth the transition. Not every company can execute a transition. In many cases we also have seen some top brands bought by companies who want the name to sell their products, but have no interest in keeping the original product lines or quality going. Having a succession plan that is successfully executed is not easy.

Larry
 
Very true Larry. For many of the companies, once the original founders exit (for various reasons) it is very difficult to maintain the same trajectory. Dynaudio is no longer a true Danish brand. Gryphon is moving down that path. Interestingly we were discussing on another forum, about the Japanese companies that went through this a few decades ago. With the exception of Accuphase, most of the other companies exited high end audio for the mainstream market.



.
 
What brands are hot also depends on what circles you run in. I see Revel and Totem still mentioned. I heard the Revel 328b, but with an amp that may not be the best, the 328b was pretty good, very open with nice highs and mids, bass was there but not like you'd expect with that many drivers, electronics was JBL processor and power amp using their connection that sends digital to the power amp and the DAC is in the amp.

CJ has never been one of those brands that everyone's heard of, they did better in the past at getting their name out there though. I'm not sure what relationship CJ had with Spearitsound but they did a lot to move the product. It seems after they went under and C & J sold the company it has been laying low.

Krell had a period where they struggled with quality control not long after Dan was gone. Probably due to the decision to have some product built n China. I know many companies do the same but it seems it takes a while to get quality up after the transition. They were trying to get some momentum before the pandemic. I believe the pandemic has slowed a lot of companies down unless one of those fortunate enough to be hot.

Dynaudio has a decent social media presence. To me they seem to be changing many of the lines. I haven't kept up or heard anything new since the new Contour series.

The lack of parts and manpower could have some of these companies on the ropes, survival mode.
 
I suspect in ten years the companies that are popular today will mostly be on the back burner, and newer companies will be up and coming. While basic stereo technology will be unchanged other forms of its implementation will be introduced and become popular. However, at 72 I hope I am still around in 10 years and be able to appreciate and purchase some new gear.
 
Mike said:
So many audio related companies just fall off the radar. It doesn’t mean they don’t make great stuff, they do. But they just fall off the radar. Ayre, CJ, Krell to name a few.
Click to expand...

Ayre, CJ, and Krell all lost their original owners and most companies don't recover when the original principals leave.

Mike said:
Dynaudio for example was riding high about 10 years ago. Now? I never hear a customer mention them as even an option. And they DO build great speakers and build their own drivers.
Click to expand...

Dynaudio sold out to the Chinese and that excited no one in the audio world.

Mike said:
What causes the fall from grace?
Click to expand...

Again, I think it is all related to companies losing the talent that built them for whatever reason (hostile takeovers, outright sale, retirement, etc.). Once the people who had the vision and the talent to build a great company and produce great products are gone, it's hard to get that mojo back.
 
Years ago Krell stood for great sound, great build quality, and eye watering prices, now if you look at the lineup, its relatively cheap, and the amp rage is very modest, also i don't think they have a monster amp as the top of their rage, back in the day they always had a master reference amp, not any more,
 
greystoke4 said:
Years ago Krell stood for great sound, great build quality, and eye watering prices, now if you look at the lineup, its relatively cheap, and the amp rage is very modest, also i don't think they have a monster amp as the top of their rage, back in the day they always had a master reference amp, not any more,
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That’s what happened after Dan left Krell.
 
greystoke4 said:
Years ago Krell stood for great sound, great build quality, and eye watering prices, now if you look at the lineup, its relatively cheap, and the amp rage is very modest, also i don't think they have a monster amp as the top of their rage, back in the day they always had a master reference amp, not any more,
Click to expand...

Look at Dan’s new creations… He raised the bar ten fold.
 
Mike said:
I see Revel starting down that path as there is no real replacement (yet) for their much beloved Salon 2.
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The Salon2(and sibling Studio2) are one of the best engineered speakers to come down the pike and still remains as such today IMO. Thus there is no need for the 'flavor of the month' ..........
 
Mikado463 said:
The Salon2(and sibling Studio2) are one of the best engineered speakers to come down the pike and still remains as such today IMO. Thus there is no need for the 'flavor of the month' ..........
Click to expand...

But they are discontinued. (I owned both by the way).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Mike said:
But they are discontinued. (I owned both by the way).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...

Mike now that you mention that I remember you telling us all that sometime back, interesting, they both show up on Revel's website ? Wonder if Revel does have a 'reference' in the works ?

Regardless, still a superb speaker !
 
Mikado463 said:
Mike now that you mention that I remember you telling us all that sometime back, interesting, they both show up on Revel's website ? Wonder if Revel does have a 'reference' in the works ?

Regardless, still a superb speaker !
Click to expand...

You’re right. I know BruceLet here told me he has been hunting for a new pair and they are discontinued, so the hunt continues!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
KeithR said:
for bling. he even admitted as much in person that it was form over function that drove his direction.
Click to expand...

Exactly how much more performance the new D'Agostino audio amps would offer over the legendary models of the past would be hard to say. One would have to make sure the Krell amps of the past were freshly re-capped to even start the comparison or it would not be fair. I remember the KSA series well. My friend still owns and listens to KSA-100s that he absolutely loves. I can tell you with certainty that the D'Agostino Momentum Monos that I owned some time ago would absolutely smoke that amp in all sonic qualities that can be readily appreciated on a good pair of speakers like Wilson. But that is not even a remotely fair comparison. The components available today, are lightyears ahead of what was available some 30 or even 20 years ago. I spoke to Dan about that in person last time I saw him. The price difference alone puts the new amps on another planet! Time marches forward. Some of the cosmetics of his new creations are no doubt for bling and I personally loved his flair with the new amps but have a "listen" to D'Agostino on a well set up system. It is hard not to be impressed.
 
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