What's with the trend in amp design?

[Al M.]

Of course I agree with your assessment Mike-no surprise there. I wonder how many of the people that claim the Ref 6 is strident, bright, or aggressive strictly listen to digital and the Ref 6 is just shining a light on the upstream components? How many are matching the Ref 6 to a SS amp? Are you running it balanced or unbalanced? How is your room treated? Does your room tend to sound bright? Do your speakers tend to sound bright? The list goes on and on.

Which has been precisely my point too. It is all system/room context, as I argued on thread pages 3 and 4.

 

[Mike]

Which has been precisely my point too. It is all system/room context, as I argued on thread pages 3 and 4.

True, but my point was swapping in the V2 in the same place as the V1 amps and total shock.

 

[Al M.]

True, but my point was swapping in the V2 in the same place as the V1 amps and total shock.

Point taken, Mike.

 

[W9TR]

I just don't get this trend. High frequencies attenuate vs distance much faster than lower frequencies, so having an aggressive amp just doesn't mimic what we hear naturally.

 

[shadowlight]

Pure speculation on my part. It could be that the folks who have the money to purchase some of the newer expensive equipment are getting old and their hearing is starting to go. To compensate for the speculated hearing loss manufactures are cranking the brightness up, which leads to folks with normal hearing finding the sound bright.

Personally, if I hear bright sound I end up with earache followed by a splitting headache after hr or so of listening to bright sound.

 

[mep]

Pure speculation on my part. It could be that the folks who have the money to purchase some of the newer expensive equipment are getting old and their hearing is starting to go. To compensate for the speculated hearing loss manufactures are cranking the brightness up, which leads to folks with normal hearing finding the sound bright.

Personally, if I hear bright sound I end up with earache followed by a splitting headache after hr or so of listening to bright sound.

Could be the exact opposite too. Lots of younger kids have damaged their hearing through ear buds and headphones played at unsafe levels for prolonged periods of time. The music industry didn't start the loudness wars to impress older people who knew better. Maybe some companies have decided to make their gear bright for the same generation that loves them some loud music with no dynamic range.

 

[Mordante]

I personally wouldn't mind if there were some more forward sounding amps on the market. Before I bought my current amp I tried a Ayre integrated amp. It was horrible dull and boring, rolled of highs and no dynamics. I have the same experience with older McIntosh (SS) gear and older design tube amps.

If I were to buy a new amp in the future I'd prefer a more dynamic and better highs then my current integrated amp.

 

[sharkmouth]

Joe, I hope that its does happen again. I find your the candor of your views when you hear something new to be refreshing.

Thanks for all of your efforts here at AS on moderating and your posts. I look forward to what you have to say.

Totally agree!!

There’s a good chance that if your system were more revealing, you’d be able to hear it too.

Now this made me chuckle, because, everyone can see it for what it is & we all know mep is going to boil on this!

Hey Ken. You are comparing a $14k pre to a $30k pre. The Ref 10 should sound better than the Ref 6. The Ref 10 has truly dual mono power supplies that share a single outboard case vice the shared power supply built into the Ref 6. Maybe if I owned a Ref 10 I would come to the same conclusions as you, but it wouldn't take away from the fact that the Ref 6 is a damn fine preamp that many people would consider themselves lucky to own. You have a very nice system by the way.

The comparison here is the "sound of a component", not the price & the illusion that comes with said price.

What nonsense! Joe please ... you don't have to change a thing.
You don't have to apologize for your opinions.

As you say it over there - Just own it!


Regards.

Totally agree!!

Of course I agree with your assessment Mike-no surprise there. I wonder how many of the people that claim the Ref 6 is strident, bright, or aggressive strictly listen to digital and the Ref 6 is just shining a light on the upstream components? How many are matching the Ref 6 to a SS amp? Are you running it balanced or unbalanced? How is your room treated? Does your room tend to sound bright? Do your speakers tend to sound bright? The list goes on and on.

There is no list, this is Mike's post about the sound of "a" component, not a generalization of different rooms etc. I'm pretty sure he has the credentials to differ between the 2

 

[Priaptor]

You found it interesting enough to comment on this thread about the quality of my system which you have never heard. Meanwhile back at the ranch, you are just one more in a crowd of audiophiles who won't publish details of their system and yet take pot shots at other people's systems. Everyone can draw their own conclusions about people who do this.

Well given that I have Concert Grands and was driving them with REF10 and REF75+KT150's till I went to a Select II direct to a GS150 (and now a CH M1) I know the sound signature of your system pretty well and KNOW you are producing amazing sound. The KOs are one of the best speakers in their class and unfortunately few have heard them and given them a chance. While I haven't heard the REF6 I once owned the REF5. I'm not sure how one can describe ARC gear as "bright" BUT there is no doubt they are moving more towards a bridging of trying to compete in the solid state world as well. So I do get those looking for that "tube sound" which is not necessarily the most accurate or desirable may be a little disappointed with the direction, IMHO, that ARC is moving.

Congrats on your system. I'm a fan.

 

[mep]

Well given that I have Concert Grands and was driving them with REF10 and REF75+KT150's till I went to a Select II direct to a GS150 (and now a CH M1) I know the sound signature of your system pretty well and KNOW you are producing amazing sound. The KOs are one of the best speakers in their class and unfortunately few have heard them and given them a chance. While I haven't heard the REF6 I once owned the REF5. I'm not sure how one can describe ARC gear as "bright" BUT there is no doubt they are moving more towards a bridging of trying to compete in the solid state world as well. So I do get those looking for that "tube sound" which is not necessarily the most accurate or desirable may be a little disappointed with the direction, IMHO, that ARC is moving.

Congrats on your system. I'm a fan.

Thanks. I appreciate the kind words.

 

[Priaptor]

Which has been precisely my point too. It is all system/room context, as I argued on thread pages 3 and 4.

Couldn't agree more. It's all about the system. Not bragging as I don't own them ("yet" maybe never due to cost) but I am currently listening to Gobel's new Epoque Aeon (replacing the Fine) using my MSB Select II direct into my CH Precision M1 using all Gobel's cables. If there is a more transparent and neutral speaker out there, I haven't heard it. I bring this up because in combination with the MSB direct into the CH, really bad recordings sound bad and really amazing recordings sound more amazing than I ever heard. The other thing I have really come to appreciate is just how good some of the original redbook recordings are. These have been dismissed as mediocre and the quest to improve with remastering, high res, etc may be the fault of our previous playback mechanism. I have been awed by the Select II in this regard.

In terms of "voicing" equipment, I am not sure we are hearing a voicing towards more sibilance than we are hearing more accuracy. I have never been a "detail freak" as in the past that has usually come with what I like to call an increase in the exhaustion index. I think many go though this phase until they obtain a sound that pleases them over the long run and allows them to sit for hours rather than minutes.

I have moved from solid state, to tubes, tried solid state again 5 years ago with a combination of Q1 and Constellation and really didn't like it. I understand why many did at the time but to me I felt there was a lack of involvement at the higher octaves. I tried the Constellation on my Nolas and tried the REF250s on the Q1s. I kept going back to the REF250 + NOLA and gave up on my Magico/Constellation quest.

Recently, in an effort to help Elliot who is distributing the Gobels I was fortunate enough to try many solid state amps as the "guinea pig" for what he was going to choose for the Gobels once they arrived. Without going into detail and all the amps we tried I will say solid state, IMHO, has come a long way since my last foray into solid state 5 years ago with the Constellation. I am very impressed. If anything, I feel today's solid state is getting it much more right than in the past, not the reverse. In fact I enjoy it so much I made the decision with my wallet and sold my REF10/GS150 for the CH Precision M1 driven direct by the Select II.

Any of you fortunate enough to the have "The Alternate Blues" album, I recommend you listen to it. I played this for people after the Gobel Aeon broke in and people were absolutely stunned. The difference in styles between Dizzy Gillespie and Clark Terry is so well illustrated in this album as are their amazing talents that we were just all in awe. Never heard anything like it. As I said, the system, the combination of all things, is how it should be interpreted. I have been doing this stuff since the late 70s and can say, the new breed of equipment is stunning.

 

[joeinid]

Thank you Priaptor.