Upssampling Music

brad225

brad225

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 11, 2017
Messages
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Location
Wesley Chapel, FL
I have recently started using Roon over JRiver. I, like many, prefer the added information and graphics that it offers.

I would like to add HQPlayer's Version 4, for its ability to upsample PCM/DSD.

The current laptop I use for Roon is not powerful enough to do DSD upsampling. It is an i3 with 2 core and not a lot of memory or power.

So far the only system I have looked at is with Small Green Computer. I am in the process of emails with Andrew the owner.
The first option he sent to me based on, being able to play DSD 256 and upsample to DSD128. This would be using Sonictransporter i5, Ultrarendu and SGC LPS. To be able to do DSD 256 upsampling. I am guessing, would cost about $1000 more approx.
The max my DAC will handle is PCM384 & DSD256 and I very much like the sound of the DAC so, I am willing to not go any higher with sampling.

Much of what I have read about the new HQPlayer Version 4, although extremely power hungry, sounds better at DSD128 than the previous version at DSD512. I have no idea, if this is in fact true or not.

For those of you that do upsample did you find that there was a large difference between 128 and 256?
Are there other options I should be looking at for this type of equipment. I currently have my music in a NAS raid 5 server so don't want more storage.

Thanks
 
if you are somewhat technically inclined, there is the DIY option where you can build exactly to your specifications... processor, memory, storage, I/O, operating system, etc.

after exhaustive of research, this is the option i took... i have detailed this DIY transport build in this thread. there are also a number of good articles / technical guides on the ROON website to help.

also, unless you specifically want HQP, roon is capable of upsampling + converting PCM/DSD. i convert everything to DSD128 which is the max my DAC will take from a non-windows OS.
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as another option, i would recommend one very seriously the ROON Nucleus+
 
Thanks aK, I did read and as best I could understand your abilities are quite admirable. For me it would for ever be a box of parts I would just stare longingly at.

Now give me some rough sawn wood and I will return you a set of carved Chippendale Chairs.

Anything Computer and digital audio is a foreign language.

I am going to assume you are happy with the process and sound quality of the upsampling.
 
aKnyght said:
...

also, unless you specifically want HQP, roon is capable of upsampling + converting PCM/DSD.

....
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Click to expand...

Totally agree. And since you are already a Roon user, it cost you nothing more.
 
brad225 said:
Thanks aK, I did read and as best I could understand your abilities are quite admirable. For me it would for ever be a box of parts I would just stare longingly at.

Now give me some rough sawn wood and I will return you a set of carved Chippendale Chairs.

Anything Computer and digital audio is a foreign language.

I am going to assume you are happy with the process and sound quality of the upsampling.
Click to expand...

woodworking is always something i have wanted to do -- have even been giving some thought to a DIY audio rack as a project to learn on if i can find a community woodshop.

although i have not done any comparisons outside of roon, i am happy with the both the process and SQ of roon's upsampling / conversion. i settled on converting everything to DSD128 as i felt it gave me a little more "clarity and air" with my specific DAC.
 
I do want to try HQP and for me getting away from a basic laptop can't be a bad thing.

Odds are you don't live near Tampa Fl. I could open my shop door to you.
 
You can't go wrong with a Small Green Computer solution. The price is very reasonable. The support from Andrew has been top notch. The i5 solution looks good (even though mine is hidden away in a closet upstairs). None of the fiddling or extra items (mouse, keyboard) required as with setting up a NUC,
 
brad225 said:
I do want to try HQP and for me getting away from a basic laptop can't be a bad thing.

Odds are you don't live near Tampa Fl. I could open my shop door to you.
Click to expand...

If you want to try HQP, then why stop at DSD256 when you can do DSD512? You just need a more powerful computer. And by the way, the previous version of HQP can do DSD512. Good luck!
 
Dont think of Hqplayer 4 if u dont hv the Intel 9700k or 9900k ir any AmD cpu that can run consistently above 4.5Ghz .. I hv a 6700k and I hv given up on Hqplayer4 as my Lenovo cannot do 4.5 -4.7 ghz overclocked on standard Bios consistently.. it drops back to 4.4ggz once Cpu temps go up (it is 100% Cpu utilization onEC demodulator)
I will wait for Jussi HQplayer developer to optimize and stabilize the EC Demodulators (DSD128EC Beats Dsd512 on Hqplayer 3)
I will get the parts and put the 9700k pc Diy but parts cost alone will be 1900usd[emoji23]



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
nicoff said:
If you want to try HQP, then why stop at DSD256 when you can do DSD512? You just need a more powerful computer. And by the way, the previous version of HQP can do DSD512. Good luck!
Click to expand...

My Playback Designs MPS-5 with Stream-IF DAC will only do up to DSD256. As you mention the computing power needed it substantially more along with the cost. Many comments on the Version 4 mentioned using DSD128 and it sounding better than higher upsample of other Version 3.

I will give it a try. Their return policy will allow me to change my mind depending on what I hear.
 
waiseng.yeong said:
Dont think of Hqplayer 4 if u dont hv the Intel 9700k or 9900k ir any AmD cpu that can run consistently above 4.5Ghz .. I hv a 6700k and I hv given up on Hqplayer4 as my Lenovo cannot do 4.5 -4.7 ghz overclocked on standard Bios consistently.. it drops back to 4.4ggz once Cpu temps go up (it is 100% Cpu utilization onEC demodulator)
I will wait for Jussi HQplayer developer to optimize and stabilize the EC Demodulators (DSD128EC Beats Dsd512 on Hqplayer 3)
I will get the parts and put the 9700k pc Diy but parts cost alone will be 1900usd[emoji23]


Thanks, I looked at that but the DIY thing ended it quickly for me.
DSD 128 upsample was my criteria when I spoke to Andrew. I was assured it would handle it just fine. I have 30 days to decide. Time will tell.
Click to expand...
 
There has been a lot written about various DSD levels. The biggest concerns are the noise ceiling, if I understand it correctly. T+A specifically states that DSD64 can have noticeable high frequency noise, and their Wide setting could actually damage speakers. Therefore with a T+A DAC if it detects DSD64 it deactivates the Wide mode.

From what I have read DSD128 moves the noise ceiling but to truly get the full benefits DSD256 is required. Some computer OS's are not always capable of going above DSD128 (Apple anyone :)), but if you have the capability you should consider running at least at DSD256. If your DAC can do DSD512 I highly advise it.

I used HQPlayer 3 with Roon for almost a year and thought it sounded good. With my new custom computer configuring HQPlayer was giving me all kinds of fits. For whatever reason I could not get it to upsample PCM files, no idea why. I stopped fiddling with it but will eventually try again. I find HQPlayer to be unnecessarily convoluted and confusing in its configurations. I also had the developer of HQPlayer tell me that V4 had no sound improvements over V3. Maybe he was not being straight... he is not the easiest to get solid info from in my experience. I also do not appreciate that I spent $165 (I think) on V3 a year ago and he now would charge me $250 for V4 irregardless that I bought V3 only a year ago (actually just under a year ago). He offers no lifetime subscription like Roon does.

For now I am running only Roon. With the latest iterations of Roon everything upsamples to DSD512 and it sounds really good!

HQPlayer requires a real power house computer to upsample to higher levels DSD. I am sure my new computer has plenty of power, but I also am now feeling that I might not need to. Roon is so easy and does such an amazing job bringing everything to DSD512!
 
Thanks Randy, I am going to ask some specific questions of people as i have not found the ability for Roon to upsample. One thing at a time.
 
brad225 said:
...i have not found the ability for Roon to upsample.
Click to expand...

a little hard to find... it is in the DSP settings for each zone.

- select the desired zone
- click on the speaker/driver icon
- click on DSP

this bring up the below screen...

- click on sample rate conversion
- enable sample rate conversion and configure for DSD

note: i do not see playback designs listed as a roon tested device, not sure how this affects configuration possibilities for your DAC within roon.

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aKnyght said:
a little hard to find... it is in the DSP settings for each zone.

- select the desired zone
- click on the speaker/driver icon
- click on DSP

this bring up the below screen...

- click on sample rate conversion
- enable sample rate conversion and configure for DSD

note: i do not see playback designs listed as a roon tested device, not sure how this affects configuration possibilities for your DAC within roon.

attachment.php
Click to expand...


You have a DAC 8 DSD... kick that puppy up to DSD512 :D

By the way, Roon Tested Device does not mean much of anything other then a unit has been tested by Roon. It has no bearing on if a particular device will work with certain aspects of Roon.
 
Thanks Guys, It just looked like a volume control nothing more. It took me a bit to find the setting but there it is. Via USB both the Stream-IF and MPS-5 show DSD 4X on them. I guess it's time to listen to some music and see how it sounds. i will try other upsample rates and see how they sound.
 
Awesome, enjoy! Roon is fairly amazing... and one of the things I like so much about it is that it is constantly improving and getting better. A year ago I thought HQPlayer was required. Now I am thinking it probably is not.
 
Well, it quickly became obvious that my wimpy i3 - 2 core HP I am replacing, is not up to DSD256.

The sound stage was a bit mushed together with some electrical blips, start and stop. I dropped it to 128 and I sounded quite good. A bit slow starting new tracks but no hurky jurky parts of 256.

I chose a few 44.1 and a bit higher that never sounded very good. They all sounded much better, still not a great original recording but not painful to listen to any more.

I look forward to the SonicTransporter and ultraRendu to see how it sounds. I will then decide if I will go forward with HQP.

Thanks for the help,
Brad
 
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