Stupid question of the day; When introducing a new component, do you find you need to adjust speaker positions?

[Ricky64]

Curious what y'all have noticed with this.
I am auditioning a Grimm MU1. In the end, I needed to push my speakers (rear ported) out from the wall a few inches for better bass response.
At the end of the day, I wonder several things..

1. Did my speakers get pushed in a bit without me realizing it (I didn't have them marked, and maybe my wife made good with her threats)
2. Does the MU1 have less bass, and pushing them out just augmented them a bit?... or
3. Can a new component change the phase a bit coming out of the rear port, such that they needed repositioned to avoid "new" destructive interference from rear wall reflections?

 

[TheOctopus]

Pulling speakers away from the wall will typically result in the opposite of what you have described. Wall reinforced bass starts to decrease. It is possible to hit different room modes just by moving speakers even a few inches as well as each speaker being slightly out of phase if the distance to the listening spot from each speaker is different. There are at least four orders of room modes that are significant to sound. They are all over your room.

Measure to make sure you are within at least 1/4 inch from each speaker corner to your sweet spot, when you find bass satisfactory and things should/will improve further with careful symmetric position.

 

[CPP]

Pulling speakers away from the wall will typically result in the opposite of what you have described. Wall reinforced bass starts to decrease. It is possible to hit different room modes just by moving speakers even a few inches as well as each speaker being slightly out of phase if the distance to the listening spot from each speaker is different. There are at least four orders of room modes that are significant to sound. They are all over your room.

Measure to make sure you are within at least 1/4 inch from each speaker corner to your sweet spot, when you find bass satisfactory and things should/will improve further with careful symmetric position.

Regarding room modes, I only remember three ,(axial, tangential, and oblique) whats the fourth ?

 

[stereogeek]

I believe you are opening a can of worms by messing with the speakers and trying to audition a new component at the same time. I would set the speakers where the bass is the most even with your old component, where it sounds like you remember it did. Then I would install the new component and just feel the flow of the music (how does the music feel?). IMO, getting into the "review mode" (How do the highs sound? How does the bass sound?) makes it much more difficult to choose one over the other. Either the new component sounds more musical or it doesn't. There are many components out there that are technically correct (especially speakers) and measure great. Do they sound musical? To me some do and some don't. Good luck.

 

[TheOctopus]

Regarding room modes, I only remember three ,(axial, tangential, and oblique) whats the fourth ?

The Fourth is gravity induced room modes. Sound molecules produced by speakers will usually tend to spread out in a bubble pattern and float around the room creating the phenomena we know as "soundstage". The more expensive the system, the denser the air molecules produced and the stronger is the effect and molecule flight duration. The molecules then tend to accumulate on the floor and other flat surfaces but are easily excited back into floating around the room by foot steps, drafts and even other molecules. Of course gravity eventually wins over and this cycle is repeated over and over and creates incoherence we tend to refer to as diffuse sound, lack of focus and decreased palpability factor. Excess molecules which carry musical notes build up over time and should be vacuumed or disposed of with a broom by gently sweeping them. One can even hear the notes being played if one listens carefully and walks gently on the floor of the listening room...


This of course is an unproven and unmeasurable theory that only makes sense to me but I am entitled to my own opinion if not my own set of facts.... Or I simply made a typo and meant to say three instead of four room modes. Axial, Tangential and Oblique each only half as strong as the other from A to O.

 

[Mr Peabody]

I have never played with speaker positioning when auditioning. It makes sense though if the new component generates more bass a speaker adjust to smooth that would be a good thing. Especially if the new component excels in other areas, why not attempt to make it work in your room.

 

[a.wayne]

Curious what y'all have noticed with this.
I am auditioning a Grimm MU1. In the end, I needed to push my speakers (rear ported) out from the wall a few inches for better bass response.
At the end of the day, I wonder several things..

1. Did my speakers get pushed in a bit without me realizing it (I didn't have them marked, and maybe my wife made good with her threats)
2. Does the MU1 have less bass, and pushing them out just augmented them a bit?... or
3. Can a new component change the phase a bit coming out of the rear port, such that they needed repositioned to avoid "new" destructive interference from rear wall reflections?

Yes and this is not unusual unless speakers were fully optimized in room before instead of being optimized for previous pre/ amp , etc ..


Regards

 

[TheOctopus]

Yes and this is not unusual unless speakers were fully optimized in room before instead of being optimized for previous pre/ amp , etc ..


Regards

So the speakers need to be tuned to the preamp and not the room? I didn't think speakers would care about a preamp as much as where they are in the room and the resulting speaker/room interaction. That's what I have missed this whole time... How does one tune the speakers to a new preamp then? What do I listen for?

 

[NorthStar]

This baby too, the AK6 ...?

 

[Randy Myers]

Very little doubt on their room placement. If I remember the last time I saw a pair of those they were huge!

 

[Ricky64]

Thanks for everyone's responses. I think my main question was whether new upstream electronics could cause phase shifts that ultimately change that nature of rear port/wall interactions with the direct speaker energy. Pretty esoteric, or perhaps just stupid...

 

[a.wayne]

Thanks for everyone's responses. I think my main question was whether new upstream electronics could cause phase shifts that ultimately change that nature of rear port/wall interactions with the direct speaker energy. Pretty esoteric, or perhaps just stupid...

The answer is NO ..!

it would not change PHASE relationship in regards to port to wall interactions, what it will and can do is change low frequency drive which may require a different position due to increased gain from rear port increased interaction with wall ..!


Regards

 

[a.wayne]

So the speakers need to be tuned to the preamp and not the room? I didn't think speakers would care about a preamp as much as where they are in the room and the resulting speaker/room interaction. That's what I have missed this whole time... How does one tune the speakers to a new preamp then? What do I listen for?

First you gotta tune ur ears ....

 

[stereogeek]

First you gotta tune ur ears ....

I agree with this with reservation. Critical listening has almost nothing to do with how good your ears are. Critical listening is a learned skill that takes years of practice. For instance when I listen to a new component I will always say "how does it make me feel or how musical does it sound?" To me, there are two modes of listening. You either have "reviewer mode" which is when you listen for the highs, mids and lows. Then you have the "music mode" where you don't nitpick the highs, mids and lows and you just listen to how it makes you feel. It is much easier to pick components when in the "music mode." Cheers.