Penthouse-D
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Hi everyone. I'm quite happy with my Magico S3's, but as my musical taste changes, considering something smoother and more holographic. Should be a very interesting and educating subject. Thanks in advance!
Smooth speaker suggestions
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Jack
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Living Voice, Harbeth, Reynaud and Nola off the top of my head. Also from you area Vandersteen if they can still be considered smooth. Certainly many more.
Paul
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Dpod4
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For holographic and smooth those are the two reasons I am keeping the Maggies in my reference system and taking my TADs to Bend (they play better than Maggies at lower listening levels which is exactly what I need in other system). So I would check out dipole speakers for holographic imaging. Or get a really good tube amp with vintage NOS tubes for the S3 
So when you say more smooth and holographic - could you expand a little further on what you mean?
For example: When people use the word "smooth" to describe a Hi-Fi component, they are usually referring to something that shunts the top end. This coloration usually results in a very relaxed sound that many people like. This holds especially true to the folks who listen to real-world music. Is that what you're going for? Or are you hoping to find a set of speakers that features extended, airy, and resolute treble that just so happens to also give you natural sounding timbre?
As for holographic-ness... I think the S3's can sound pretty holographic if you have the means and time to treat them right. That said, they can still sound like point-source speakers. So when you say you want something more holographic, I'm guessing you're referring to a speaker that can project a wider, more enveloping soundstage than your Magicos. Something that will draw less attention to itself, and more attention to the music.
Anyways, I'm not trying to pick apart your question. I'm just trying to fully understand what you're looking for so I can give you proper advice.
For example: When people use the word "smooth" to describe a Hi-Fi component, they are usually referring to something that shunts the top end. This coloration usually results in a very relaxed sound that many people like. This holds especially true to the folks who listen to real-world music. Is that what you're going for? Or are you hoping to find a set of speakers that features extended, airy, and resolute treble that just so happens to also give you natural sounding timbre?
As for holographic-ness... I think the S3's can sound pretty holographic if you have the means and time to treat them right. That said, they can still sound like point-source speakers. So when you say you want something more holographic, I'm guessing you're referring to a speaker that can project a wider, more enveloping soundstage than your Magicos. Something that will draw less attention to itself, and more attention to the music.
Anyways, I'm not trying to pick apart your question. I'm just trying to fully understand what you're looking for so I can give you proper advice.
Penthouse-D
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I'll go with Dpod4's description. I have a tube amp that I absolutely love on the Magico's . A Rogers EHF-200MK2. As far as replacing the Magico's addressing Joe, undecided. I am pretty happy, but as I listen to more and more female vocals, I wonder if I could do better….
apdoc2004
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Tannoys Canterbury GR would be an interesting choice.
CPP
Active member
+1 on the Reynaud
Interesting thread.
My Living Voice definitely fit the description. Harbeth's CAN be smooth, but I find the SHL5+ less "smooth" than the 40.2, but the 40.2 is a bass nightmare.
I have to say the NAIM/Focal Sopra No.1's with Crystal cabling at RMAF was REALLY smooth, musical and toe tapping.
Also Jim, I wonder if you shouldn't go and hear the new Magico's. The new tweeter is seamless and the midrange just as good or maybe better than your S3's.
P.S. It's interesting that no one has said Sonus Faber?? Boy have they fallen off the radar. Anyway, the Franco Serblin era speakers were very smooth. Not easy to find, but a pair of Anniversarios would work great in your apartment Jim (Strad sound in a normal sized box).
My Living Voice definitely fit the description. Harbeth's CAN be smooth, but I find the SHL5+ less "smooth" than the 40.2, but the 40.2 is a bass nightmare.
I have to say the NAIM/Focal Sopra No.1's with Crystal cabling at RMAF was REALLY smooth, musical and toe tapping.
Also Jim, I wonder if you shouldn't go and hear the new Magico's. The new tweeter is seamless and the midrange just as good or maybe better than your S3's.
P.S. It's interesting that no one has said Sonus Faber?? Boy have they fallen off the radar. Anyway, the Franco Serblin era speakers were very smooth. Not easy to find, but a pair of Anniversarios would work great in your apartment Jim (Strad sound in a normal sized box).
Jerome W
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In the room at RMAF, it was so boomy, they just couldn't get them to sound good. Ask around. I went to that room at least 6 times over the 3 days. They tried the speakers length wise, width wise, on an angle and every time it was BOOM BOOM BOOM.
I've also heard from others, including a dealer friend and Joe, that the 40.1's can be the same way - in a small room or the wrong room.
I'm glad you got yours sounding great. Did the bass ever get away from you? If so, what did you do to tame it?
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Proper stands help with Harbeth. I have the Resonant wood stands and love them, but I am sure there are better like the ones Jerome has in his room.
Once I compared my Strads and 40.1 back to back, there was no way the Strads were going anywhere. So, the 40.1's had to go.
Once I compared my Strads and 40.1 back to back, there was no way the Strads were going anywhere. So, the 40.1's had to go.
Penthouse-D
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Interesting suggestions here. I do like my Magico's , and the S3's are about as big as I can handle size wise, so another Magico is out of the question I suppose. It seems all the new ones are 5's and larger. I think the SF's are beautiful to look at, especially in the rare graphite finish, but I've never thought they were very "dynamic". Maybe I just haven't heard them with the correct gear. Always ARC and Mc. I think my new cables will "sweeten" them up a bit. We'll see after the break-in period. I'm living in Miami now, so I guess I'll seek out a Harbeth dealer. I've never heard them. Thanks!!!
Jack
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Jim
If you don't mind a small road trip to the Palm Beach area, John at Wellington Audio carries Harbeth, Audio Note and Reynaud. He also carries Shindo, Audio Note, Leben, Line Magnetic and Manley tube gear. So there should be something that would be reasonably close to what you have.
http://www.wellingtonaudio.com/
The Reynauds I really like and have owned three different models in the past. The Offrande and Orfeo might interest you depending on if you want monitor or floor stander.
http://www.jm-reynaud.com/jmr_us/produits.html
If you don't mind a small road trip to the Palm Beach area, John at Wellington Audio carries Harbeth, Audio Note and Reynaud. He also carries Shindo, Audio Note, Leben, Line Magnetic and Manley tube gear. So there should be something that would be reasonably close to what you have.
http://www.wellingtonaudio.com/
The Reynauds I really like and have owned three different models in the past. The Offrande and Orfeo might interest you depending on if you want monitor or floor stander.
http://www.jm-reynaud.com/jmr_us/produits.html
This is quite the interesting challenge.
On one hand, the Rosso Fiorentino Volterra has a top end and tonal balance that - in my opinion - far surpasses the Magico S3's. Yet, the compromise is that the Rossos are warmer and less dynamic. They also have more of a point-source sound. So those may not fit the bill.
The Totem Acoustic Metal may be an interesting option. Their the tonal balance is similar-ish to a Magico (albeit with a slightly thicker tone), they are supremely holographic, and they are well adept when it comes to handling large dynamic swings. The only problem here is that the treble is only a touch smoother than your Magicos, and like the Magicos, it can require a bit of time, effort, and $$ to really get a full understanding of what the speakers can do.
The Living Voice, Harbeth, Reynaud suggestions are good ones *if* you are looking to try a *completely* different sounding set of loudspeakers. Some people cross that bridge and never look back. I suppose the only way to know where you'll stand is to listen for yourself.
Have fun!
On one hand, the Rosso Fiorentino Volterra has a top end and tonal balance that - in my opinion - far surpasses the Magico S3's. Yet, the compromise is that the Rossos are warmer and less dynamic. They also have more of a point-source sound. So those may not fit the bill.
The Totem Acoustic Metal may be an interesting option. Their the tonal balance is similar-ish to a Magico (albeit with a slightly thicker tone), they are supremely holographic, and they are well adept when it comes to handling large dynamic swings. The only problem here is that the treble is only a touch smoother than your Magicos, and like the Magicos, it can require a bit of time, effort, and $$ to really get a full understanding of what the speakers can do.
The Living Voice, Harbeth, Reynaud suggestions are good ones *if* you are looking to try a *completely* different sounding set of loudspeakers. Some people cross that bridge and never look back. I suppose the only way to know where you'll stand is to listen for yourself.
Have fun!
Jerome W
Active member
Hi Mike.
Interesting.
There are few things to consider.
1/ I can see that the Harbeth claim of the 40.2 being "easier to drive in the bass" compared to the 40.1 seems to be only marketing
2/ With the 40.1, one needs super high level isolation from the ground and from their stands. I use Skylan stands with premium fill. But the speakers are isolated from the stands with Nickel Manganese housings and ceramic bearing anti vibration feet ( AVF) from PAB and the stands are isolated from the ground with acrylic and steel bearings PAB AVF.
In my 28 m2 room, all visitors are extremely impressed with the bass response. It is clean, deep, tight and textured. But :
- the bass of the 40.1 goes VERY low. Much more than the Alexias for example. With more energy. This can make the speaker very difficult to integrate in many rooms if you intend to use it in a conventional hifi way : ie, playing at rather high volume, let's say above 90dB. You can do it, but you need a really perfect room treatment. If not, you have to keep in mind that these speakers are originally studio monitors, made for near field listening at low volume. 70 / 75 dB maximum.
- Many amps are not perfectly flat and right below 30 Hz. If such an amp is used with the 40.1, then you will hear a clear distortion. And it is not a question of power. It is a question of right frequency response. My Nagra MSA is only 60W and gives the best bass from the 40.1. The Shindo CCQs go lower, with more energy but with less control. The bass gets very invasive at high volume. Not boomy but just overpowering the room and eating the mids and the treble. At low volume, below 70dB, my Shindo CCQs are just a heaven with the 40.1. Once again, when those speakers are used like they are intended to ( you cannot use them as Magico or Wilson speakers), if a quality amp is used, along with decent isolation, you will get a superb and quite unique bass. Much better imho than the bass of the heavily damped speakers like Wilson, Magico, Rockport and so on.
But remember, if not properly isolated, the speaker will sound clearly boomy, no matter the amp used.
An option can be to use a low power amp but of very high quality. It will not give enough energy in the extreme bass to create room resonances : there will be a steep attenuation below 40 Hz that will appear as a good thing in many rooms, especially if you want to listen at high volume. The McIntosh 225 is my favorite amp for that use. Also, some recordings are extremely compensated in the bass, with a heavy loudness effect. They are actually mastered for "lay sytems" and ipods. Small speakers.
The 40.1 will give you exactly what is on the recording. Some recordings will sound boomy just because that is precisely what the sound engineer made.
Now, you will never get with Harbeth, or any other speaker, the naturalness and speed and clarity of the bass of a 30 or 38cm Altec driver. Those incredible drivers do not go as low as the 30cm of the 40.1. In fact there is no extreme bass at all. But, At 45/50 Hz and above, they are just the best bass drivers ever made. But yes, they are not made for electric rock. They are made for acoustic instruments.