Shunyata Delta NR power cord and Furutech Flux-50 NCF Filter

Audiophilehi said:
Is there much or if any difference between the Shunyata Delta NR power cord and the Furutech Flux-50 NCF Filter?

They do appear to do the same thing.​
Click to expand...

They do the same thing for the most part, with respect to noise reduction, but not with respect to another attribute, which I'll explain.

Before I get into the detail, I think its important to recap what power cords are supposed to do: deliver current.

The #1, top requirement for any power cord is to deliver current as quickly as possible when playing music, particularly dynamic content. Shunyata developed a complete metrology for measuring this, and it is referred to as Dynamic Current Transient Delivery aka DTCD. Listeners invariably prefer power cords that provide high levels of DTCD, as this functionality provides the openness, dynamism, responsiveness and naturalness that we reference back to live music.

Now, with regards to noise reduction: there are lots of ways to suppress and attenuate noise (its not possible to reduce it to "zero", but that's an aside that gets into physics): inductors, chokes, coils, Balun and other isolation transformers, etc., have been used for long time to reduce noise. The issue with these is they can and usually do, have a signficant noticeable impact on DTCD. This is one of the reasons that generic powerstrips that provide noise reduction, e.g., the Monster noise reducing power strips sound so dark, compressed, and well, crappy, 'cause their noise filtering significantly impacts DTCD.

What Shunyata was able to do with the NR-series of power cords (and also their power conditioners) was to able to provide noise suppression without impacting DTCD, this is why they represent a breakthrough, IMHO.

With respect to noise reduction, both the Delta NR and the Flux-50 will provide noise suppression of AC mains line noise. I didn't own an NCF, but I had a non-NCF Flux-50, and using an Entech powerline noise analyser set to a nominal reading of ~100-110 when used with a generic black power cord, the Furutech reduced the noise from ~100-110 to ~12-9 (it's noise so it fluctuates when taking readings). A Venom 14 Digital power cord, which utilizes the same noise suppression technology as the Delta NR, reduces noise from ~100-110 to ~1.7 to 1.0.

But here's another key distinction, and one that is important, in my view. When I installed a Flux-50 into my system's preamp and connected it to my Triton...I didn't hear any improvement...at all. Zip. I left it in for a bit to burn in, but after that, I just took it out because it didn't do anything for my system with its power distribution configuration.

By contrast, even using a Shunyata Venom NR-V10 or V12 power cord in conjunction with my Triton (which provides about 24 dB of noise suppression), I heard a notable reduction in noise, which made the sytem sound much quieter, blacker, open, spacious, and transparent. This was compared to my Shunyata Black Mamba power cords, which are no slouch.

Now for the Delta NR....when I installed this power cord in conjunction with Denali 6000/S V2, I heard a reduction in noise (though not as dramatic as with the NR-V10/12 using the Triton simply because Denali already provides >60 dB noise suppression). But the biggest difference I heard were really increased dynamics, speed, and ability to "scale" from piano to fortissimo, even over Venom NR-V10. The improved DTCD contributes significantly to the lifelikeness of the presentation.

Bottom line: I flipped my Flux-50 after a number of years of it sitting unused on my parts shelf. And, I've been buying quite a few Shunyata NR power cords.
 
Wow Stephen....thanks so much for the detailed explanation. I’m going to give the Shunyata Delta NR power cord a try. I have a few Furutech Flux-50 NCF Filters that I can do a direct comparison.
 
Audiophilehi said:
Wow Stephen....thanks so much for the detailed explanation. I’m going to give the Shunyata Delta NR power cord a try. I have a few Furutech Flux-50 NCF Filters that I can do a direct comparison.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty confident you'll love it, its combination of NR and DTCD is really impressive.
 
That'll be the day...I've been hanging out for Shunyata deals but they seem to exclude their digital I/C's and higher spec power cords from discounting.
 
Thank you for your input..

Could you help me with a few questions i have?

I am looking to buy 2 power cords, 1 for my receiver (McIntosh MA8900) and 1 for my streamer (x-odos Stream Pro). I have the Niagara 1200 with a Furutech cable.

I am thinking to buy the new Venom NR-V10 and V12. Could there be a restriction in current with the cable from furutech?
Is the Delta cable noticeable beter then the Venom wich justifies the price?





Puma Cat said:
They do the same thing for the most part, with respect to noise reduction, but not with respect to another attribute, which I'll explain.

Before I get into the detail, I think its important to recap what power cords are supposed to do: deliver current.

The #1, top requirement for any power cord is to deliver current as quickly as possible when playing music, particularly dynamic content. Shunyata developed a complete metrology for measuring this, and it is referred to as Dynamic Current Transient Delivery aka DTCD. Listeners invariably prefer power cords that provide high levels of DTCD, as this functionality provides the openness, dynamism, responsiveness and naturalness that we reference back to live music.

Now, with regards to noise reduction: there are lots of ways to suppress and attenuate noise (its not possible to reduce it to "zero", but that's an aside that gets into physics): inductors, chokes, coils, Balun and other isolation transformers, etc., have been used for long time to reduce noise. The issue with these is they can and usually do, have a signficant noticeable impact on DTCD. This is one of the reasons that generic powerstrips that provide noise reduction, e.g., the Monster noise reducing power strips sound so dark, compressed, and well, crappy, 'cause their noise filtering significantly impacts DTCD.

What Shunyata was able to do with the NR-series of power cords (and also their power conditioners) was to able to provide noise suppression without impacting DTCD, this is why they represent a breakthrough, IMHO.

With respect to noise reduction, both the Delta NR and the Flux-50 will provide noise suppression of AC mains line noise. I didn't own an NCF, but I had a non-NCF Flux-50, and using an Entech powerline noise analyser set to a nominal reading of ~100-110 when used with a generic black power cord, the Furutech reduced the noise from ~100-110 to ~12-9 (it's noise so it fluctuates when taking readings). A Venom 14 Digital power cord, which utilizes the same noise suppression technology as the Delta NR, reduces noise from ~100-110 to ~1.7 to 1.0.

But here's another key distinction, and one that is important, in my view. When I installed a Flux-50 into my system's preamp and connected it to my Triton...I didn't hear any improvement...at all. Zip. I left it in for a bit to burn in, but after that, I just took it out because it didn't do anything for my system with its power distribution configuration.

By contrast, even using a Shunyata Venom NR-V10 or V12 power cord in conjunction with my Triton (which provides about 24 dB of noise suppression), I heard a notable reduction in noise, which made the sytem sound much quieter, blacker, open, spacious, and transparent. This was compared to my Shunyata Black Mamba power cords, which are no slouch.

Now for the Delta NR....when I installed this power cord in conjunction with Denali 6000/S V2, I heard a reduction in noise (though not as dramatic as with the NR-V10/12 using the Triton simply because Denali already provides >60 dB noise suppression). But the biggest difference I heard were really increased dynamics, speed, and ability to "scale" from piano to fortissimo, even over Venom NR-V10. The improved DTCD contributes significantly to the lifelikeness of the presentation.

Bottom line: I flipped my Flux-50 after a number of years of it sitting unused on my parts shelf. And, I've been buying quite a few Shunyata NR power cords.
Click to expand...
 
AceBaran said:
Thank you for your input..

Could you help me with a few questions i have?

I am looking to buy 2 power cords, 1 for my receiver (McIntosh MA8900) and 1 for my streamer (x-odos Stream Pro). I have the Niagara 1200 with a Furutech cable.

I am thinking to buy the new Venom NR-V10 and V12. Could there be a restriction in current with the cable from furutech?
Is the Delta cable noticeable beter then the Venom wich justifies the price?
Click to expand...

Hey Ace,
I think the Venom NR-V10 would be the ideal cable for your McIntosh receiver. The Delta NR would be better for use with a separate power amp, but for a receiver, I think the NR-V10 would be your best value proposition.

Also, for your streamer, get the Venom V14D Digital; its specifically designed for use with streamers.

If you are considering upgrading your Niagara 1200 PD (power distributor) at some point in time, the new Shunyata Delta D6 will provide you will provide a nice improvement in musical dynamics as well as better noise reduction.

I'm not sure how the Fururtech is used with your configuration, but if you're using it with a power cable for the Mac, you can remove it if you get the Venom NR-V10.

What cable are you using to power the Niagara? Its not clear to me...
 
Puma Cat said:
Hey Ace,
I think the Venom NR-V10 would be the ideal cable for your McIntosh receiver. The Delta NR would be better for use with a separate power amp, but for a receiver, I think the NR-V10 would be your best value proposition.

Also, for your streamer, get the Venom V14D Digital; its specifically designed for use with streamers.

If you are considering upgrading your Niagara 1200 PD (power distributor) at some point in time, the new Shunyata Delta D6 will provide you will provide a nice improvement in musical dynamics as well as better noise reduction.

I'm not sure how the Fururtech is used with your configuration, but if you're using it with a power cable for the Mac, you can remove it if you get the Venom NR-V10.

What cable are you using to power the Niagara? Its not clear to me...
Click to expand...

Hi there,

oh my, did i write receiver?.. the MA8900 is a integrated Amp. As for the Furutech cable, i am using it on the Niagara.
 
I think ill be safe when I buy 2 Delta NR cables, 1 for my amp and 1 for my streamer. I use the furutech cable on my AQ Niagara 1200.

Gone shopping.
 
AceBaran said:
I think ill be safe when I buy 2 Delta NR cables, 1 for my amp and 1 for my streamer. I use the furutech cable on my AQ Niagara 1200.

Gone shopping.
Click to expand...

Respectfully, Ace, you don't need a Delta NR for your Streamer; the second Delta NR PC would be put to better use to power your Niagara instead of the Furutech. Get a Venom V14D for your streamer; it is purpose-designed for these devices; it a special NR fitering for this type of digital device that the Delta NR does not provide. If the third PC poses a budget constraint, put a Delta NR on your Niagara, a Venom NR-V10 on your McIntosh integrated and Venom V14D on your streamer.

Trust me on this... :)
 
Hi Pumacat,

Thank you for your advice, i trust you :)

But.. i live in Europe, and de Venom V14D only comes in US AC plug :/ if i have read correctly





Puma Cat said:
Respectfully, Ace, you don't need a Delta NR for your Streamer; the second Delta NR PC would be put to better use to power your Niagara instead of the Furutech. Get a Venom V14D for your streamer; it is purpose-designed for these devices; it a special NR fitering for this type of digital device that the Delta NR does not provide. If the third PC poses a budget constraint, put a Delta NR on your Niagara, a Venom NR-V10 on your McIntosh integrated and Venom V14D on your streamer.

Trust me on this... :)
Click to expand...
 
Puma Cat said:
Respectfully, Ace, you don't need a Delta NR for your Streamer; the second Delta NR PC would be put to better use to power your Niagara instead of the Furutech. Get a Venom V14D for your streamer; it is purpose-designed for these devices; it a special NR fitering for this type of digital device that the Delta NR does not provide. If the third PC poses a budget constraint, put a Delta NR on your Niagara, a Venom NR-V10 on your McIntosh integrated and Venom V14D on your streamer.

Trust me on this... :)
Click to expand...

Hi Stephen...would the same hold true for my Dac? Getting a Venom V14D instead of a Delta NR?
 
AceBaran said:
Hi Pumacat,

Thank you for your advice, i trust you :)

But.. i live in Europe, and de Venom V14D only comes in US AC plug :/ if i have read correctly
Click to expand...

Ah, okay, I was not aware of that. If that is in fact true, then, if it works with your budget, get the NR-V12 for your streamer, and if it fits for your budget, use a Delta NR for your Niagara and a Venom NR-V10 for your integrated amp. If that stretches the budget too much, consider two Venom NR-V10's: one for the Niagara and one for the Mac Integrated amp. You will obtain more benefit, higher performance and more noise reduction if you use slightly lower specification Shunyata NR power cords, e.g. the Venoms, than spending more on Delta NRs and then using the Furutech power cord to power the Niagara.

The bottom line: the most important PC in your system is the one for the power generator itself. its better to use slightly less expensive, slightly lower spec Shunyata PCs, than spending more money on higher spec cords for components, and then using an non-noise reducing, lower spec PC for the power distributor.

This is just my 2¢ based on my experiences with using various PCs with power distributors over the years. Hope you find this helpful. Cheers.
 
Audiophilehi said:
Hi Stephen...would the same hold true for my Dac? Getting a Venom V14D instead of a Delta NR?
Click to expand...
Hi Paul,
No, for a DAC, which is a component that outputs an analog output (much like a phono stage), a "regular" NR PC is the way to go. So, depending on your budget, something along the lines of a Venom NR-V10 or Delta NR. You will get more performance as you go up the line as DTCD is an important functional attribute for this class of components.

The V14D is purpose-designed for "pure digital" devices, e.g. routers, NAS', Ethernet switches, fiber media convertors, and network bridges or streamers. The distinction is that all these devices are in the digital domain (and bandwidth) rather than the "analog" domain. The development for the V14D actually came out of a medical industry digital imaging application from Shunyata's sister company, Clear Image Scientific, and was originally developed for use with digital medical imaging devices, e.g. digital heart monitors, for things like ablation therapy, etc.
 
Got ya :) I am gonna see if i can make a good deal on 1 Delta with 1 Venom V10 and 1 Venom V12!

Puma Cat said:
Ah, okay, I was not aware of that. If that is in fact true, then, if it works with your budget, get the NR-V12 for your streamer, and if it fits for your budget, use a Delta NR for your Niagara and a Venom NR-V10 for your integrated amp. If that stretches the budget too much, consider two Venom NR-V10's: one for the Niagara and one for the Mac Integrated amp. You will obtain more benefit, higher performance and more noise reduction if you use slightly lower specification Shunyata NR power cords, e.g. the Venoms, than spending more on Delta NRs and then using the Furutech power cord to power the Niagara.

The bottom line: the most important PC in your system is the one for the power generator itself. its better to use slightly less expensive, slightly lower spec Shunyata PCs, than spending more money on higher spec cords for components, and then using an non-noise reducing, lower spec PC for the power distributor.

This is just my 2¢ based on my experiences with using various PCs with power distributors over the years. Hope you find this helpful. Cheers.
Click to expand...
 
Puma Cat said:
Hi Paul,
No, for a DAC, which is a component that outputs an analog output (much like a phono stage), a "regular" NR PC is the way to go. So, depending on your budget, something along the lines of a Venom NR-V10 or Delta NR. You will get more performance as you go up the line as DTCD is an important functional attribute for this class of components.

The V14D is purpose-designed for "pure digital" devices, e.g. routers, NAS', Ethernet switches, fiber media convertors, and network bridges or streamers. The distinction is that all these devices are in the digital domain (and bandwidth) rather than the "analog" domain. The development for the V14D actually came out of a medical industry digital imaging application from Shunyata's sister company, Clear Image Scientific, and was originally developed for use with digital medical imaging devices, e.g. digital heart monitors, for things like ablation therapy, etc.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much Stephen!!
 
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