Resistor Rolling

[the professor]

In learning about the new Sutherland phono preamp and how it lets you change resistors out. I was wondering, is this the 2015 version of tube rolling?

 

[slowgeezr]

Isn't that just so you can change the loading for various cartridge requirements/sound preference?

 

[puroagave]

In learning about the new Sutherland phono preamp and how it lets you change resistors out. I was wondering, is this the 2015 version of tube rolling?

Ron is hardly the first to propose 'resistor rolling', Stan Klyne has been including loading resistor 'jacks' in his phonostages going on thirty years, many mfrs have offered the option of soldering in resistors of different values/types. 90% of mfrs use Dale or Roederstein 1% metal film resistors which are considered to be good as it gets. Caddock, vishay and kiwame have been the boutique choices over the last several years. all that said, there's a movement afoot that endorses the use of plain ol' skool carbon resistors.:disbelief:

bottom line, Id rather listen to music than chase my tail trying dif brands of resistors. if you want to see what its all about Chris Johnson and co. will gladly help...
http://www.partsconnexion.com/resis_main.html

 

[DaveC]

Resistors can make for big differences in sound. It's important you use the right type, for example a wirewound resistor used as a grid stopper may make the problem it's trying to eliminate worse!

Different types of carbon resistors can sound very different too. Kiwame sound like crap... soft, warm and smooths out detail. Riken or Amtrans carbon film are very accurate yet not harsh, these are very good resistors. Mills wirewound are very neutral and a good choice for many applications like tube power supplies and crossovers. Vishay metal foil are considered the most neutral and are good for volume controls, line-level filters, etc... very expensive though.

 

[the professor]

I wasn't trying to say he was the first . . . .

And i agree with you on the who cares - i want to listen to music. BUT . . . . I was asking the "Tube Rollers" which obviously doesn't apply to you, ---- is this the same kind of thing.

Many manufacturers have made a new expensive upgrades by "only" adding better components in any substantial way. Rolling resisters or caps - this be HUGH in system matching just like changing tubes are.

I don't have enough technical knowledge to know - but it seems like the exact same thing. Please help me understand.

????????

Ron is hardly the first to propose 'resistor rolling', Stan Klyne has been including loading resistor 'jacks' in his phonostages going on thirty years, many mfrs have offered the option of soldering in resistors of different values/types. 90% of mfrs use Dale or Roederstein 1% metal film resistors which are considered to be good as it gets. Caddock, vishay and kiwame have been the boutique choices over the last several years. all that said, there's a movement afoot that endorses the use of plain ol' skool carbon resistors.:disbelief:

bottom line, Id rather listen to music than chase my tail trying dif brands of resistors. if you want to see what its all about Chris Johnson and co. will gladly help...
http://www.partsconnexion.com/resis_main.html

 

[mep]

Having the ability to plug in resistors for loading in phono circuits has been around for a very long time. My PS Audio 4H had that capability, My Counterpoint SA-5.1 had that capability, My Counterpoint SA-2 had that capability, and my ARC PH-3SE required that you actually solder them in. Now if we are talking about having the average audiophile remove resistors from circuit boards and soldering in new resistors, that's a whole new bag of whoop-ass and disasters in the making. I can see lifted circuit traces on circuit cards and gear whose value has gone down the drain.

Naked Vishay resistors are the bomb, but so is the price.

 

[puroagave]

I wasn't trying to say he was the first . . . .

And i agree with you on the who cares - i want to listen to music. BUT . . . . I was asking the "Tube Rollers" which obviously doesn't apply to you, ---- is this the same kind of thing.

Many manufacturers have made a new expensive upgrades by "only" adding better components in any substantial way. Rolling resisters or caps - this be HUGH in system matching just like changing tubes are.

I don't have enough technical knowledge to know - but it seems like the exact same thing. Please help me understand.

????????

we'll have to agree to disagree on the use of the word HUGH [sic]. Your other comment about not having the technical knowledge probably explains why many people believe everything they read in the audio press or what their favorite reviewer has to say. I've been at this a long time too, and a lucrative career is waiting for you in advanced engineering if you can consistently hear a HUGE difference changing the brand of just two (identical value) metal film loading resistors in your phonostage (one per channel).

 

[Jack]

This is nothing more than simply changing the loading to match the cartridge being used. Providing sockets gives you more choices than simply providing a knob or dip switches based on what the designer thinks are the appropriate choices. Has nothing to do with the sound of different brands of resistors and everything to do with the resistors value. Makes more than a little difference to load a cartridge properly.

 

[puroagave]

This is nothing more than simply changing the loading to match the cartridge being used. Providing sockets gives you more choices than simply providing a knob or dip switches based on what the designer thinks are the appropriate choices. Has nothing to do with the sound of different brands of resistors and everything to do with the resistors value. Makes more than a little difference to load a cartridge properly.

you and I are on the same page but that's not what Ron is intimating in Fremer's video, the conversation starts at around the 3 min mark. Ron himself uses the word "fad" to describe changing brands of resistors:

http://www.analogplanet.com/content...-purity-and-adjustability#LMarkPtO6fIbDr9T.97

 

[slowgeezr]

This is nothing more than simply changing the loading to match the cartridge being used. Providing sockets gives you more choices than simply providing a knob or dip switches based on what the designer thinks are the appropriate choices. Has nothing to do with the sound of different brands of resistors and everything to do with the resistors value. Makes more than a little difference to load a cartridge properly.

I agree. Not only that, but changing the value of the resistors sometimes has no audible effect, whether to within recommended impedance or not.

 

[Jack]

Rob

I can't imagine that if a designer uses one brand or type all the way through a design that changing the final loading pair to another brand would make a "significant" difference. Methinks some people convince themselves they hear things that don't exist.

 

[DaveC]

Rob

I can't imagine that if a designer uses one brand or type all the way through a design that changing the final loading pair to another brand would make a "significant" difference. Methinks some people convince themselves they hear things that don't exist.

It would depend... if you use very colored parts that add their own sound then changes can be difficult to discern, even fairly major changes. This includes electronics, cables and crossovers. OTOH, if the system is very transparent and neutral than it's pretty easy to hear changes. That's the issue with "parts are parts" folks... they have a system full of cheap, colored parts and then when cables make no difference they exclaim it's because of their superior engineering prowess when it's actually in the context of a low resolution, colored system in the first place.

For resistors, I don't think you're going to hear much difference between different brands of run of the mill metal film resistors but if you compare say, Kiwame to Vishay bulk foil there will be a very noticeable difference if the resistor is in series with the signal in an otherwise transparent, neutral system.