Northern CA Wildfire

BlueFox

BlueFox

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These fires are freaking intense now. The deaths and destruction by the North CA Camp Fire is amazing, and it is only 40% contained on 11/15. The smoke has smothered the SF Bay area, and schools are either canceled, or there is no outdoor recess. Minor annoyance compared to what is happening a few hundred miles away, but still unprecedented. If this is the new normal, and likely to get worse in the future, then we are going to see massive lifestyle changes.
 
BlueFox said:
These fires are freaking intense now. The deaths and destruction by the North CA Camp Fire is amazing, and it is only 40% contained on 11/15. The smoke has smothered the SF Bay area, and schools are either canceled, or there is no outdoor recess. Minor annoyance compared to what is happening a few hundred miles away, but still unprecedented. If this is the new normal, and likely to get worse in the future, then we are going to see massive lifestyle changes.
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This is quite a polluted topic. No pun intended. There's a lot of blame to go around. These fires don't need to be anywhere near as bad as they have been. There's been a lot of misinformation, management as well as intense lobbying by interested groups that have led to all of this. In my opinion and from what I have read, much of this could have been avoided. No the fires wouldn't just go away as they are a natural part of the ecological cycle, but they don't need to be as raging and uncontrolled as they have become. There is a lot that can be done.

On a related note, I'm wondering if it's not becoming a good time to jump into the PG&E stock. I'm just not sure what happens when a utility goes bankrupt. They're not going to stop the flow of electricity. The real question is will they screw the stockholders. Or will they just double the utility rates in California to make up for the shortfall in Revenue to the utility, whereby the utility can turn around and hand the money to the government.
 
One of the changes that I can foresee is changes in the building code that affect (at a minimum) houses built near wooded areas. For example, require the use of materials that are fire resistant for new construction. I used to live in Northern California and recall seeing so many houses with cedar roofs which I am sure can easily go up in flames if hit by ambers particularly if dry.
Note: Florida changed their building code after Mathew. New houses are better built and can be designed to withstand hurricanes. During the last hurricane a single house on the beach withstood the force of the Cat 4 hurricane and was pictured all over the place. It was designed to higher standards than the regular code.
 
Agreed on building codes and cedar roofs.

I was told a bipartisan bill requiring the cleaning of heavy fuel deposits in the woods be removed. Governor Brown vetoed it.

I hear there are much better aircraft for fire fighting but Calif refuses to buy them. Local municipality have stated intention to buy them but the state government grounds all planes durring a fire and will jail anyone involved in saving lives and property.

Then there are the radio logs where fires start, are small and dispatch does nothing till the fire is full tilt. My understanding is when they're small they don't care about it, at the time when they could actually be put out.

Then there's the whole talk about budgets. As in they need enough fires to make sure their budget gets bigger every year. Not smaller.

The list goes on. We're dealing with a government and interested people. There's a huge industry built around fighting fires and they don't want those fires to go away.

The list goes on.
 
came down Wednesday to San Francisco for a convention, staying in a hotel downtown. i'm on the 36th floor, and this morning the smoke is really bad. I look out my window and can only see 1/2 as far as I could on Wednesday or yesterday. I've stayed in the hotel or the convention center and only outside for the short walk in between.

right now the Air Quality Index is 'very unhealthy' 225.

https://airnow.gov/index.cfm?action=airnow.local_city&cityid=317

today my 10am flight back to Seattle was cancelled (don't know why) and i rebooked on another airline for a 4:30pm flight. i'll stay in my hotel room until i take a bus to the airport at noon, then stay inside the airport until I depart.
 
Kingrex said:
Agreed on building codes and cedar roofs.

I was told a bipartisan bill requiring the cleaning of heavy fuel deposits in the woods be removed. Governor Brown vetoed it.

I hear there are much better aircraft for fire fighting but Calif refuses to buy them. Local municipality have stated intention to buy them but the state government grounds all planes durring a fire and will jail anyone involved in saving lives and property.

Then there are the radio logs where fires start, are small and dispatch does nothing till the fire is full tilt. My understanding is when they're small they don't care about it, at the time when they could actually be put out.

Then there's the whole talk about budgets. As in they need enough fires to make sure their budget gets bigger every year. Not smaller.

The list goes on. We're dealing with a government and interested people. There's a huge industry built around fighting fires and they don't want those fires to go away.

The list goes on.
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Please cite your sources. I live in Sacramento and what you say sounds like faux news to me. You have made some damning claims without support.

There might very well be instances of allowing fires to burn if they do not threaten residences or lives. Fires are part of the natural ecosystem and allowing small fires to burn reduces the opportunity for large burns in the future. Please don't make standard forest fire management procedures sound like deliberate malfeasance.
 
nicoff said:
One of the changes that I can foresee is changes in the building code that affect (at a minimum) houses built near wooded areas. For example, require the use of materials that are fire resistant for new construction. I used to live in Northern California and recall seeing so many houses with cedar roofs which I am sure can easily go up in flames if hit by ambers particularly if dry.
Note: Florida changed their building code after Mathew. New houses are better built and can be designed to withstand hurricanes. During the last hurricane a single house on the beach withstood the force of the Cat 4 hurricane and was pictured all over the place. It was designed to higher standards than the regular code.
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Hurricane Andrew in 1992 was the trigger for legislators to revamp Florida’s building codes. The changes in state codes after Mathew , new and renovated homes on the Space Coast east of U.S. 1 must be able to withstand three-second gusts of 160 mph winds, and 124 mph sustained wind speeds. Structures west of U.S. 1 must be able to withstand three-second gusts of 150 mph winds and 116 mph sustained wind speeds. Exterior impact protection — such as impact-resistant windows, hurricane shutters and reinforced doors — are required for new construction. Each county also has their own requirements. My home has a concrete tile roof, all my walls are poured with rebar, which withstood Matthew at 23 miles off my door and 123 mph winds and 6 feet of storm surge. MY hurricane impact windows held and we had no damage to my home. Lost all of my trees but that was due to saltwater storm surge. A lot of people in this county has wood frame homes, single pan windows, darn shame people don't want to upgrade their homes to protect their investment.

The fire in CA, I was amazed when I saw how many homes were wood frame, and the older homes with those cedar roofs and old singles. But, a hot fire pushed by 55 MPH and higher winds can destroy any structure. I read, that the Camp Fire, at one point it was burning 80 acres a minute.https://www.wired.com/story/the-terrifying-science-behind-californias-massive-camp-fire/
 
The Camp Fire is heart-piercing. ...The incredible rapidity it speeded up and engulfed Paradise town.
People had no chance (no alert plus only one road to evacuate); I'm afraid that the number of casualties is going to climb up in the next few weeks and surpass hundred, if not more.

The air is toxic, the worst on the planet right now (or among the worst)...worst than in China in the most populous and polluted areas/towns. Mike is right, the air index (easy to google) is very very high...dangerous and super bad for the youngest and elders.
• https://airnow.gov/index.cfm?action=airnow.local_city&cityid=317

If you know what smoke can do to your lungs you know it's better to stay inside than outdoors right now. And @ any price don't do any activity. Me I have a heart condition, and it could kill me.
Just last year I was knocked down for three weeks due to smoke and an air index near 200.

Now you can imagine what it's like to be a firefighter; toughest job in the world, one of.
Only the fit people can apply, and the fittest are the ones more @ risk than anyone else to feel the extreme exhaustion. Asthma and lung problem people cannot apply for that job. It comes later on with the job.
 
NorthStar said:
The Camp Fire is heart-piercing. ...The incredible rapidity it speeded up and engulfed Paradise town.
People had no chance (no alert plus only one road to evacuate); I'm afraid that the number of casualties is going to climb up in the next few weeks and surpass hundred, if not more.

The air is toxic, the worst on the planet right now (or among the eorst)...worst than in China in the most populous and polluted areas/towns. Mike is right, the air index (easy to google) is very very high...dangerous and super bad for the youngest and elders.
• https://airnow.gov/index.cfm?action=airnow.local_city&cityid=317

If you know what smoke can do to your lungs you know it's better to stay inside than outdoors right now. And @ any price don't do any activity. Me I have a heart condition, and it could kill me.
Just last year I was knocked down for three weeks due to smoke and an air index near 200.

Now you can imagine what it's like to be a firefighter; toughest job in the world, one of.
Only the fit people can apply, and the fittest are the ones more @ risk than anyone else to feel the extreme exhaustion. Asthma and lung problem people cannot apply for that job. It comes later on with the job.
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Indeed. The SF Bay Area has been FUBAR the last week, and this is trivial compared to the fire zones.
 
jap said:
Bad air and Poop on the streets, why would anyone want to go to SF?
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My wife has been courted for very lucrative executive level positions in San Fran. We refuse to go solely based upon the filth, fecal matter and violence. In the 80s it was a nice place. Every time I visit now I'm more and more put off.
 
“We do know that electric company PG&E experienced a problem with an electrical transmission line near the site of the fire, minutes before it broke out,” according to CBS News, and now criminal Governor has signed a bil allowing the company to CHARGE its customers whatever is necessary to pay for all of the lawsuits and losses that are coming. The punchline? PG&E is controlled by one of the world’s richest families, the Rothschild’s whose Agenda 21 goals seem to be coming along quite nicely with all of this “accidental” destruction.

 
jap said:
“We do know that electric company PG&E experienced a problem with an electrical transmission line near the site of the fire, minutes before it broke out,” according to CBS News, and now criminal Governor has signed a bil allowing the company to CHARGE its customers whatever is necessary to pay for all of the lawsuits and losses that are coming. The punchline? PG&E is controlled by one of the world’s richest families, the Rothschild’s whose Agenda 21 goals seem to be coming along quite nicely with all of this “accidental” destruction.

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Didn't someone rail on me a few post back for my noting there are a lot of politics involved in these fires. Need more evidence be provided.
 
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