Network Switches

mep said:
For those of you that are deep into the digital forest and are using a switch in your network, I'm curious to know if everyone is using "audiophile" switches or if some people are using commercial switches. If you are using a switch, is it a managed switch or unmanaged switch? If you are using a managed switch, can you tell us what is involved in the initial software setup and if you have to "manage" the switch after the initial setup?
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this is the switch you want... tp-link jetStream 8-port Gigabit Smart PoE+ Switch with 2 SFP Slots

> the audiophile part is the 2 SPF ports for running optical fiber to your digital front-end :D

> the non-audiophile part is that it cost $129.99 ;)
 

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mep said:
Thanks David. How can you stream music if you pull the ethernet cable?
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You really can't. Euphony/Stylus buffers 2 songs and that's it. My experimentation was with music stored on my NAS. Euphony/Stylus will buffer entire albums.
 
Thanks David. I didn’t think you could stream music with no Ethernet connection unless you could buffer a song at a time which would negate the reason for streaming in the first place.

If I read everything correctly, even if you strictly play back music stored on your network, it’s going to become a PITA to buffer one album, pull the Ethernet cable, listen to the album, jump up and plug the Ethernet cable back in and buffer the next album, unplug the Ethernet cable, listen to the next album, and rinse and repeat. I don’t know how many DCPs would sign up for that ritual.
 
mep said:
Thanks David. I didn’t think you could stream music with no Ethernet connection unless you could buffer a song at a time which would negate the reason for streaming in the first place.

If I read everything correctly, even if you strictly play back music stored on your network, it’s going to become a PITA to buffer one album, pull the Ethernet cable, listen to the album, jump up and plug the Ethernet cable back in and buffer the next album, unplug the Ethernet cable, listen to the next album, and rinse and repeat. I don’t know how many DCPs would sign up for that ritual.
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Oh, I totally agree. I have only done that to test the sound. To actually do that when I am listening to music is a non-starter. The reason I brought this up was to just say how the ethernet stream can negatively affect the sound which is why people have looked to switches to help.
 
dminches said:
Oh, I totally agree. I have only done that to test the sound. To actually do that when I am listening to music is a non-starter. The reason I brought this up was to just say how the ethernet stream can negatively affect the sound which is why people have looked to switches to help.
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I’m glad we agree. So are you saying a switch will give you the same SQ you can get by unplugging your Ethernet cable and listening to music from the buffer?
 
mep said:
I’m glad we agree. So are you saying a switch will give you the same SQ you can get by unplugging your Ethernet cable and listening to music from the buffer?
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No. I am saying the music with the switch sounds better than without, but it does not sound as good as with no ethernet at all.
 
Mike-48 said:
Wouldn't adequate buffering and filtering by the receiving components take care of that?
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This is something you either will have to hear for yourself or not. There has been a lot written about this and observed by others.
 
dminches said:
This is something you either will have to hear for yourself or not. There has been a lot written about this and observed by others.
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Yes, certainly a lot has been written about it. The only objective thing I've seen has been a review of the Silent Angel switch in ASR, which didn't find any value added by the special switch. No, I don't think ASR is perfect, not by a long shot, but it is a refreshing breath of rationality in our beloved activity.

In the day, I bought green pens, CD polishes and rings, and all kinds of other stuff, and I heard differences -- until I didn't. I wonder if network switches aren't another of those solutions looking for a problem.
 
At this time I don’t have first hand experience with any audiophile switches, but I know that I would look at any discussions or reviews at ASR very skeptically. Their approach is much more pseudo-scientific than scientific, and it’s far from clear that either approach (but especially the first) is very useful to the audiophile.
 
dminches said:
No. I am saying the music with the switch sounds better than without, but it does not sound as good as with no ethernet at all.
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Thanks for the clarification David. My limited experience with the Netgear unmanaged switch I purchased so I could hear what a network switch does didn’t work so well for me. Even though the Netgear switch is not an audiophile switch, it’s still a switch that performs the same function as an audiophile switch that some people claim improves the sound. In my system, the Netgear switch degraded the sound.
 
I find the ‘I trust my ears’ argument to be hollow unless it can be backed by science. Those old enough to have used “green pens”, “magic stones”, “CD rings”, etc. and were convinced that they made a difference should know by now.

The internet has allowed new voices of science-oriented audiophiles to be heard. And that in turn has exposed many myths that folks have kept repeating (unchallenged by the most part) for decades! And even if we accept the argument that ‘everything matters’ as being true, not everything matters equally.

And that brings me to the subject of ‘Network Switches’ being discussed here. I have used three network switches in my system. The first two were cheap switches (100MB, less than $30). I upgraded to a 1G switch when I started experiencing dropouts (not coincidentally, it happened when I started streaming high-def files). I upgraded my internet bandwidth and bought the 1G switch. I noticed NO difference in sound when moving from any of the switches except that I have not experienced dropouts since I upgraded to 1G.

From the scientific standpoint, the network switch should have NO effect on the quality of the sound (except for minimizing the possibility of dropouts when using a higher bandwidth, lower latency switch). My experience is in line with what science has concluded.

And for those who might want to dig deeper into these audiophile network switches, here are (non-subjective) reviews of two network switches that have been highly touted by the (subjective) audiophile press.

Silent Angel Bonn N8 Audio Grade Ethernet Switch | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Switch Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
 
I trust that you also use Home Depot AC power cords, interconnects and speaker wires; I hear that Denon and Marantz are making some killer integrated stereo amps again as well. All those items measure well, at least as well as anything more expensive, and won't embarrass you with their sound quality.

I post that only a little in jest; as already noted, I have no experience with these switches (except for my $17 TP-Link switch which I sometimes use for extra ports). Nevertheless, I suspect you are putting too much faith in ASR's conclusions.
 
rbbert said:
I trust that you also use Home Depot AC power cords, interconnects and speaker wires; I hear that Denon and Marantz are making some killer integrated stereo amps again as well. All those items measure well, at least as well as anything more expensive, and won't embarrass you with their sound quality.

I post that only a little in jest; as already noted, I have no experience with these switches (except for my $17 TP-Link switch which I sometimes use for extra ports). Nevertheless, I suspect you are putting too much faith in ASR's conclusions.
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Maybe not necessarily "faith" on somebody else's conclusions, however I do put value in science, measurements, methodology, logic and repeatability of results. (Not surprising since, after all, I am an engineer).

And although you said it half-jokingly, I do not use fancy power cords (good quality, reasonably-priced hospital grade cords work for me), or fancy digital interconnects (BJC work fine), or fancy speaker wires (not Home-Depot, but nothing exuberant either), plus no fancy ethernet cables or USB cables either.
 
mep said:
For those of you that are deep into the digital forest and are using a switch in your network, I'm curious to know if everyone is using "audiophile" switches or if some people are using commercial switches. If you are using a switch, is it a managed switch or unmanaged switch? If you are using a managed switch, can you tell us what is involved in the initial software setup and if you have to "manage" the switch after the initial setup?
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Unless you call yourself a network expert, do not use a managed switch. They tend to be problematic with Roon.

If you find your Netgear unmanaged switch degrades the sound, please make sure you use an unshielded network cable. If you have a LPS with the right specs, try using it on the switch.

I don't want to advertise for other people products, and I especially do not want to encourage the use of any third party product with our products either, I do not endorse them, this is just FYI only for those who are willing to accept a switch may matter (I'm not saying it does or does not):
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...enson_EtherREGEN_white_paper.pdf?v=1583429386
 
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