need advice!

O

Old Bob

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Good afternoon!!

A friend wants to improve his system, and he is willing to learn.

I will get the details, but in general he has about 150 records and 500 CD's.

the room will be 24 by 24 feet with an 11 foot peak ceiling.

He currently has 1981 Advent speakers, some Hitachi preamp and power amp. He liked my system. He wonders what he could do with a budget of $5,000 to $7,000

I will get his actual details, but I thought the biggest improvement would be speakers. He did like my stereo and 2 subwoofers. I will get the actual models of his equipment soon.

any ideas would be great!!!

best,

Bob and THANKS
 
Is it fair to assume he wants to put together playback primarily for Lp's and CD's ? Is any of his existing gear functional ? is he willing to buy used ? If the entire budget is for speakers, source components, amplification and 'wire' then I say focus on speakers ($2-3000) first and go from there. Given it's a square room room treatment will probably be in order as well
 
Does he really want vinyl playback? I know he has a number of albums on vinyl, but to get them to sound as good as streaming the same recordings, half his budget will disappear into turntable, arm, etc.

Secondly, does he really want to play his CDs? Similarly (though at less cost) a chunk of his modest budget will have to go towards a CD player.

OK - if he can be persuaded to settle for the countless millions of albums available from streaming services such as Qobuz or Tidal at CD quality or better, his box count is dramatically reduced and he can spend his money on just a good pair of floor-standing speakers (ones that don't need subs) and a good all-in-one streamer / DAC / amp. Plenty of both to choose from with the additional benefit that the only cables he'll need are a pair of speaker cables. He could sell his vinyl collection, and his CDs could either be sold or ripped to a hard drive that his streamer can access. Simple and his budget will provide a pretty decent sounding system. Having to buy TT and CDP as well will leave him with a mid-fi system that he’ll be unhappy with.

Or, if he's determined to keep his vinyl and CDs, he could start buying the streamin-only package with his budget and add later a CDP and TT if and when he yearns to play his own media on his own equipment. But we all know that's unlikely once he starts streaming!

Peter
 
THANKS!! great advice! I myself just play CD's. I DO think he should start with great speakers, that won't need subwoofers for a while

will give all the models he has tomorrow.
some equipment is quite old, some new.

best,
Bob
 
He will need efficient speakers to fill that space or the subs.

Agreed, an all-in-one unit would be best bang for the buxk. Something like the Parasound Halo integrated, this will leave you needing a streamer and other sources though. The Arcam SA30 may be a more rounded option but the Parasound has a good amount of power which I find important. There's other brands as well.

Klipsch comes to mind for efficient but I haven't heard them in a long time. You might look at Tekton. SVS, would be another option if getting sub and speakers at the same time. SVS may not be as efficient but the subs will help and if power like the Parasound he should be fine.

Other speakers like the Monitor Audio Silver series offer a great value.
 
Mr P - I generally agree with your points, but I don't think the required volume needed to fill his room with sound is related to the efficiency / sensitivity of the speaker but its rated Maximum SPL. This is usually governed by the type, size, design and build quality of enclosure, quality of drivers, etc. Granted a less sensitive speaker will need a beefier amp, but a low efficiency speaker (ATC for example) will amply fill his room with sound provided it is fed plenty of watts!

My suggestion of an all-in-one wouldn't include the Parasound as this really isn't an all-in-one - it's missing the streamer and (if it's really needed) a room correction such as Dirac Live - so the 2 box solution may cost more with its 2 cases, power supplies and interconnect. I had in mind the NAD Master Series M33 or equivalent from another brand. There's one forum out there whose members seem to favour Lyngdorf (probably they'd recommend the TDAI-3400), although I had one in my system for a while and preferred the NAD M32, predecessor to the even better M33. The M33 truly is good value in that it uses arguably the best Class D technology around (Purifi Eigentakt) with 200+ watts output, a good DAC, phono stage, headphone out and sub out, Dirac Live if needed and the first class BluOS control app. I chose the NAD over a dozen other amp (mostly far more costly) to power speakers that cost 8 times the price - and I don't want to spend the $20K or so in an attempt to improve on the M33. It's that good.

Speaker wise, I'd probably go for a Monitor Audio over the others you mention, but the first decision (one that is rather set by the room's acoustics) is the TYPE of speaker - horns, electrostatics, conventional boxes, omnis. I use horns as they are far less fussy about nearby walls (or the lack of them) as my huge room is a very odd shape and other types I've tried haven’t fared as well, particularly the electrostatics that really didn't like my room. With speakers, there’s such a wide choice and plenty of good ones around used, I’d look for a used bargain that’s big and ballsy enough that subs aren’t needed. Peter
 
24x24 is a serious problem.
i suggest headphones or at least a subwoofer in every corner.
or then a monitor that doesnt do low bass.
 
u-sound said:
24x24 is a serious problem.
i suggest headphones or at least a subwoofer in every corner.
or then a monitor that doesnt do low bass.
Click to expand...
I hate to disagree, but I’m not sure why some seem to think that square rooms are bad for audio. Visit an Audio Fair that uses hotel rooms to demonstrate equipment. Aren't most of these rooms square plus or minus a foot or so? The area of that room is 576 sq ft (only 60% the size of my semi-circular room) and fine for a pair of largish floor-standers without subs - or giving up altogether and using those extremely anti-social devices - headphones!

There may be a theoretical slight disadvantage with square rooms, but there's lots to do to mitigate this without resorting to subs or even room correction processors. Firstly and most importantly (for every room), the TYPE of speaker needs to be considered and certain types may forgive square rooms better than others. My room doesn't allow electrostatics to shine, but horns do very much better as they are far less fussy about the presence of (or lack of) nearby walls. Although I'm sure plenty of conventional box speakers would work very well for the OP's room, perhaps a different type would be even better. Before making any big purchase (particularly speakers as they are so room dependent), a short list of 2 or 3 at least need to be tried at home first. Peter
 
No facts yet on what the gentleman wants his system to be, but lots of opinions on what he should do. Someone opined he could sell his LPs and CDs without knowing if he plans to keep them. Maybe he should sell the china he inherited from his great aunt Matilda to help finance the group sourced system that is being proffered without knowing what the man wants from his system.
 
mep said:
No facts yet on what the gentleman wants his system to be, but lots of opinions on what he should do.
Click to expand...

Agreed, I asked the Op several key questions to help us all get started and 'no answer' ?? perhaps his next reply ?

It does crack me up when someone supposedly suggest a system for physical media and someone feels compelled to convince them otherwise !
 
First of all, $5-$7K is not a huge amount of money for a full system including CD and LP playback, Amp, Speakers, and Cables so I would not get too hung up on the room size, treatments or other services that you need to keep paying for.
He could get a Rotel Tribute CD11 for $600. Compared to whatever he used to have, this will sound great.
A used Rega P3 somewhere in same range, or a new Fluance or similar. Plenty of $500 TTs to choose from.
A used Luxman Integrated that already has a good Phono and Headphone section so no need to add those.
That probably leaves around $2K for any number of decent speaker choices.

I am assuming this gentleman is interested in listening to his old collection for enjoyment and is not chasing Audio Nirvana or the last 1%.

Help him put together something simple with least components and connections and let him just enjoy his music.
 
Hear Here said:
I hate to disagree, but I’m not sure why some seem to think that square rooms are bad for audio. Visit an Audio Fair that uses hotel rooms to demonstrate equipment. Aren't most of these rooms square plus or minus a foot or so? The area of that room is 576 sq ft (only 60% the size of my semi-circular room) and fine for a pair of largish floor-standers without subs - or giving up altogether and using those extremely anti-social devices - headphones!

There may be a theoretical slight disadvantage with square rooms, but there's lots to do to mitigate this without resorting to subs or even room correction processors. Firstly and most importantly (for every room), the TYPE of speaker needs to be considered and certain types may forgive square rooms better than others. My room doesn't allow electrostatics to shine, but horns do very much better as they are far less fussy about the presence of (or lack of) nearby walls. Although I'm sure plenty of conventional box speakers would work very well for the OP's room, perhaps a different type would be even better. Before making any big purchase (particularly speakers as they are so room dependent), a short list of 2 or 3 at least need to be tried at home first. Peter
Click to expand...

hi peter,
no problem if you disagree. however, it is not about thinking or the type of speakers.
it is science about bass and standing waves. plenty of information out there if you are willing to search.
 
mep said:
Someone opined he could sell his LPs and CDs without knowing if he plans to keep them.
Click to expand...


Please re-read the entire post you refer to. All options suggested are logically explained, so picking out one sentence is inappropriate!

The option of selling vinyl or CDs was prefaced by could not should and the last paragraph deals with the scenario you describe - that he wants to keep and play this media.

How would you suggest the OP spends his modest budget that provides for playing vinyl and CDs and still ends up with good quality sound. Genuinely interested to know. Thanks. Peter
 
Mikado463 said:
Agreed, I asked the Op several key questions to help us all get started and 'no answer' ?? perhaps his next reply ?

It does crack me up when someone supposedly suggest a system for physical media and someone feels compelled to convince them otherwise !
Click to expand...

All true.
 
Hear Here said:
Please re-read the entire post you refer to. All options suggested are logically explained, so picking out one sentence is inappropriate!

The option of selling vinyl or CDs was prefaced by could not should and the last paragraph deals with the scenario you describe - that he wants to keep and play this media.

How would you suggest the OP spends his modest budget that provides for playing vinyl and CDs and still ends up with good quality sound. Genuinely interested to know. Thanks. Peter
Click to expand...

First of all, I won't make suggestions for how other people should spend their money on buying a system. Second of all, you and others are making suggestions without even getting the information that the OP keeps saying he will post about what his friend is looking for in his system. And third, I don't care if you prefaced selling his LPs and CDs with "could" vs. "should' because it's still a suggestion you threw out before you know whether he plans on keeping his LPs and CDs.
 
THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR TIME!!

Mikado, I'm still getting info from him. You are correct, you need more info!! thanks for your patience.

ATOLL CD 100 player, works fine. I know nothing of that maker.
OLD Advent A4 speakers, refurbished 6 months ago, but still 40 years old

Hitachi HCA 8500 preamp. old

Hitachi HMA 8500 amp, old, crackles at high volume

Marantz nice IT 15 S1 turntable works well.

will put stereo in 24 by 24 foot room in a month. wants to use records and CD, no streaming YET.

I was thinking to get good floor standing speakers and integrated amp. can add subwoofers later!

I love my harbeth speakers and even more with two REL subs.

so, then the question would be:

$5,000-$7,000 for a GREAT pair of speakers and integrated amp for 24 by 24 foot room

all ideas welcome! I think for now his CD and turntable are "good enough"

thanks so so much!

bob
 
I will ask him if he would get used equipment, but we need a reputable place!
bob
 
OK Bob, one more question......... if he still plans to continue with his TT set up for the time being is it safe to assume his cartridge is MM or high output MC ? I ask because not all integrated amps with built in phono-pre's can handle low output cartridges.

Given his room being square (never 'good') but at 24'x24' much better than a small one , he should also allocate some funds for acoustic treatments, DIY is easy and a great way to save $$.

As for how to spend 7k between speakers and amplification, if it were me, I'd allocate 4-5 k on speakers and the balance on what drives them.
 
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