MSB Discrete Ordered...Now What?

B

bluegrassphile

Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
Messages
995
Location
Southeast Iowa
I’ve been concentrating so much on my choice for an integrated amp I’ve all but forgotten to learn about DACs and streamers and how they operate. I’ve ordered the best DAC/streamer I could afford. But I know nothing about DACs or streamers. I know that DAC stands for digital analog converter but I don’t know what it does?

I don’t know what DSD stands for or does? I don’t know what unsampling, sampling, bit depth, is or does. I don’t know a bit from a byte or gigabyte. I don’t know what a DAC or streamer does or how to get “it” to do “it “.....whatever “it” is? It’s embarrassing to admit all this. But, I’ll have to deal with it soon or I won’t be able to use my new system.

I can learn all the digital/technical stuff just the same as anyone else. But where and/or how? Man, I hate this feeling. I know what DAC stands for but not what it really means. I know you have to have it for streaming. But that’s about the extent of my knowledge. How can I begin to learn this stuff? YouTube? References? Wikipedia?

I’ve just purchased a top shelf piece of equipment but don’t know how to use it. I’m an old analog guy. I grew up in the ‘50s, not the ‘80s or ‘90s. What’s the best way to begin my quest for information? Please...no chastising. I feel stupid enough.
 
Congratulations!

I’m so jealous. Can’t wait until you hook up that bad boy.
 
Not to worry. DSD is a type of music format. PCM is the most popular and common type of format. The DAC takes a digital signal and converts it to analog so you can listen. In your setup, we are running Roon. You will use an iPad to control your music.

This is the setup you heard in the store and loved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Thanks guys. I now know more than I knew. I probably know more than I realize. Darrel, thank you for the reference. I’ll check it out for sure. Wikipedia has been helpful in the past too. But so many references assume you have a certain level of knowledge. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being an expert I’m a 2 or 3 when it comes to digital, computers, electronics, etc. But, like I said, I can learn.
 
Great choice on MSB Discrete. It’s as good as it gets in that price range.

As for understanding “digital”, no worries you’ll get up to speed in no time. YouTube is your friend.
 
congrats on the msb discrete -- definitely a destination DAC !!

for computer audio, aka: digital, check out the well tempered computer ...pretty much everything you will want to know about the nuts and bolts of digital and them some.

enjoy!!!
 
bluegrassphile said:
Thanks guys. I now know more than I knew. I probably know more than I realize. Darrel, thank you for the reference. I’ll check it out for sure. Wikipedia has been helpful in the past too. But so many references assume you have a certain level of knowledge. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being an expert I’m a 2 or 3 when it comes to digital, computers, electronics, etc. But, like I said, I can learn.
Click to expand...


Congrats on the amazing dac. I’ve never heard it but , reading reviews are overwhelming positive.

ill have to to be Frank with you and please don’t take offense to this.

Reading your posts sounded very much so that you loved talking about stuff but , had no desire to spend the coin on any of this stuff.

We had another poster for a few months back talking about buying new Magico M3 one day to saying he was just going to buy something vintage from a yard sale.

You know a tire kicker.

But , glad you aren’t like him lol .

What is the rest of your system that you current own or have procured ?
 
bluegrassphile said:
I’ve been concentrating so much on my choice for an integrated amp I’ve all but forgotten to learn about DACs and streamers and how they operate. I’ve ordered the best DAC/streamer I could afford. But I know nothing about DACs or streamers. I know that DAC stands for digital analog converter but I don’t know what it does?

I don’t know what DSD stands for or does? I don’t know what unsampling, sampling, bit depth, is or does. I don’t know a bit from a byte or gigabyte. I don’t know what a DAC or streamer does or how to get “it” to do “it “.....whatever “it” is? It’s embarrassing to admit all this. But, I’ll have to deal with it soon or I won’t be able to use my new system.

I can learn all the digital/technical stuff just the same as anyone else. But where and/or how? Man, I hate this feeling. I know what DAC stands for but not what it really means. I know you have to have it for streaming. But that’s about the extent of my knowledge. How can I begin to learn this stuff? YouTube? References? Wikipedia?

I’ve just purchased a top shelf piece of equipment but don’t know how to use it. I’m an old analog guy. I grew up in the ‘50s, not the ‘80s or ‘90s. What’s the best way to begin my quest for information? Please...no chastising. I feel stupid enough.
Click to expand...

I feel your pain, my brother! I can definitely sympathize since I’ve been trying to figure all that out too. I’ll take a stab at it, but will probably not get everything right. I’m sure others will be happy to clarify.


Digital music recorders convert an analog signal into a digital one, using an analog to digital converter (ADC). ADCs don’t record and store the entire analog waveform. They only take samples which, to varying degrees, approximate the analog waveform. There are 2 main formats for digital recording: pulse code modulation (PCM) and direct stream digital (DSD). Each of these formats have various resolutions or sampling frequencies. CDs use PCM at 16 bits and a sampling frequency of 44.1 kHz. DSD uses 1-bit resolution but a much higher sampling frequency (2.8224 MHz). Higher resolution PCM is usually 24-32 bits with sampling frequencies typically 96 kHz or higher.


After the analog waveform is sampled it has to be stored in a file format. There are lots of formats for PCM files: aiff and flac are the most common, but there are many others. DSD file formats include dsf and dff. MQA is a newer format.


Files can be stored on a computer, network attached storage (NAS) or elsewhere.


That’s the simple part! I’m too am confused by what comes next. However, the simplest explanation I have found is on the Antipodes Audio website, posted here for you:


“REMOTE CONTROL – Use your desktop, laptop, tablet or smartphone to tell the Server what to play.
SERVER – The Server organises your music, and displays your library, streaming services and radio stations on the Remote Control’s screen. When told to play a file, the Server pushes the music file to a Renderer.
RENDERER – The Renderer turns the music file into a digital audio signal to send to your DAC.
DAC – The DAC converts the digital signal to an analog signal and sends it to an amplifier.
Different products on the market may combine two or more of these functions:
STREAMER – This term is used loosely, but it usually means a DAC with an Ethernet input, and combines the Renderer and DAC functions in a single device. Many streamers work by ‘pulling’ files stored on other devices on the network, and so in this case the remote control talks to the streamer. Other streamers, such as Roon Ready DACs, work by files being ‘pushed’ from a server to one or more streamers, and so the remote control talks to the server.
MUSIC SERVER – Most devices called Music Servers combine the Server and Renderer functions in a single device...”

You use Roon. The Roon Core is the software that manages the music library and database. It requires a lot of computing power, so usually resides on a Mac or Windows computer, network server, or a specialized network computer dedicated just to running Roon Core (like a Roon Nucleus). You also need a way to interface with and control the Core. The Control function is usually thru the Roon Control app, run on a phone, tablet/iPad or computer. All of the hardware in the system (server, renderer, streamer, dac) must be able to “talk Roon” to each other. That’s what makes it Roon Ready or Roon compatible.


Hope this helps!
 
mdp632 said:
Congrats on the amazing dac. I’ve never heard it but , reading reviews are overwhelming positive.

ill have to to be Frank with you and please don’t take offense to this.

Reading your posts sounded very much so that you loved talking about stuff but , had no desire to spend the coin on any of this stuff.

We had another poster for a few months back talking about buying new Magico M3 one day to saying he was just going to buy something vintage from a yard sale.

You know a tire kicker.

But , glad you aren’t like him lol .

What is the rest of your system that you current own or have procured ?
Click to expand...


No, no offense taken whatsoever. But I don't fit that profile. The reason I sounded like I didn't want to spend money is I had some sticker shock after coming back to high end audio from a 40+ year absence. I didn't realize how much you could spend on a home audio system. I expected things to be much less expensive. However, I've chalked it up to inflation, bit the bullet, and purchased a system that you wouldn't associate with someone who didn't want to spend the money. I will have spent many times my original budget on my new system.

My system will consist of: Pass Labs int 250 integrated amp, the afore mentioned MSB DAC/streamer with optional second power supply. Roon Nucleus, Harbeth Super HL 5+ 40th Anniversary speakers, AQ Rockett 88 speaker cables, Mackenzie interconnects, HiFi speaker shelves/racks. I'll be spending a somewhat modest amount on room treatment. That's about it. I just need to become more familiar with the MSB and Roon Nucleus. Then I'll be in tall cotton.
 
bluegrassphile said:
No, no offense taken whatsoever. But I don't fit that profile. The reason I sounded like I didn't want to spend money is I had some sticker shock after coming back to high end audio from a 40+ year absence. I didn't realize how much you could spend on a home audio system. I expected things to be much less expensive. However, I've chalked it up to inflation, bit the bullet, and purchased a system that you wouldn't associate with someone who didn't want to spend the money. I will have spent many times my original budget on my new system.

My system will consist of: Pass Labs int 250 integrated amp, the afore mentioned MSB DAC/streamer with optional second power supply. Roon Nucleus, Harbeth Super HL 5+ 40th Anniversary speakers, AQ Rockett 88 speaker cables, Mackenzie interconnects, HiFi speaker shelves/racks. I'll be spending a somewhat modest amount on room treatment. That's about it. I just need to become more familiar with the MSB and Roon Nucleus. Then I'll be in tall cotton.
Click to expand...


Congrats on the amazing system. I’ve read good things about Pass Labs and Harbeth synergy so I’m sure it will be amazing.

I owned an Int-60 and loved it but , my speakers didn’t lol as they required more current. Too Low of sensitivity.

Outside of listening room. I believe the amp+speaker pairing can either make or break a system.

Enjoy in good health.
 
Congrats. From everything I have read MSB is supposed to be spectacular! I went through what you are a few years ago relearning this whole digital music thing.

A majority of digital music out there is PCM; flac, wav, etc. CDs are 16-bit 44.1 Khz... which format, in general which compression system (some being Apple exclusive) that the file is stored in. Many if not most digital download sites offer albums in higher resolution formats utilizing both higher bit rates (24-bit usually) and higher sampling rates, such as 88.2, 96, 192 Khz, etc. These higher samplings are multiples of the base clock used, 44.1 or 48. Most current DACs can decode all of these files with the end goal being better sound for better resolution.

DSD is a different system that was developed by Sony and Phillips, originally as a better disk format called SACD. Not all CD players can play SACD disks. The files on SACD disks are stored as DSD64, which is 1-bit 2.8 Mhz resolution. Yes DSD uses a 1-bit system at a much higher sampling rate. DSD128, DSD256, DSD512, etc., files use even higher sampling rates. DSD files are considerably larger and therefore will never be used by streaming services. As an example I have a few DSD512 albums, one is over 19 GBs in size.

Some people feel DSD is more analog sounding. I personally prefer the sound of DSD. Up-sampling is usually done in software, although companies such as PS Audio up-sample the signal coming into their DACs to a very high DSD rate and then down-sample to DSD128 prior to de-coding. Up-sample converts the files to higher sampling rates. Some people, such as me, believe that everything sounds better up-sampled. Roon can up-sample in its DSP settings. HQPlayer is a very re-knowed software program that is considered one of the best at up-sampling!
 
bluegrassphile said:
My system will consist of: Pass Labs int 250 integrated amp, the afore mentioned MSB DAC/streamer with optional second power supply. Roon Nucleus, Harbeth Super HL 5+ 40th Anniversary speakers, AQ Rockett 88 speaker cables, Mackenzie interconnects, HiFi speaker shelves/racks. I'll be spending a somewhat modest amount on room treatment. That's about it. I just need to become more familiar with the MSB and Roon Nucleus. Then I'll be in tall cotton.
Click to expand...

You have chosen a very nice set of components that, together, should provide you a terrific and satisfying musical system. Enjoy the music!
 
Congrats Bluegrassphile. You now have the more complex work of setting the digital system up properly for mazimum sonic gain. You don't just plop it on a shelf and away you go. It will sound good that way, but wont get near its optimum potential. It's not a lot of money you will need to spend, but its some thought, time and work. Lots of threads here could help.
 
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