MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

Kuoppis

Kuoppis

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Please help me out here, are there realistic DAC alternatives available to try out full decoding? I was looking for one I could buy just to try it out. Unless you go for top dollar it gets thin.

MSB Select - 80K, ok I’ll take two
MSB Reference - 40K upwards
DCS Rossini - 24K
Berkeley Ref 2 - 18K
Brinkman Nyquist - 18K (terrible measured perf)
Mark Lewinson 519 - 17K, only announced
.
.
.
Nothing
.
.
.
Nothing
.
.
.
Nothing.
.
.
.
Lumins 2-10K - unfolding (Wolfson DAC)
Estoteric N-05 - 8K, only announced (unfolding, since rng chg)
MSB Analog DAC - 7K decoding
Aurender A10 - 6K decoding, mainly a NAS
Krell Vanguard DAC 4.5K, unfolding only announced (ESS9018)
Mytek Manhattan 2 - 4K decoding
Oppo UDP-205 - 1.5K decoding
Bel Canto ACI600 - xK, only announced
Quad Artery xK, only announced
Mytek Brooklyn - 2K decoding
Bluesound, Onkyo, LG, Onkyo, Moon, Sony, NAD, Meridian, Pioneer, Technics, Audiolab, Project, Rotel, Teac, Wadax
Audioquest dongles, smartphones etc

Not joining in so far Aesthetix, Antelope, Arcam, ARC, Auralic, Aqua, Ayon, Ayre, Benchmark, Bricasti, Bryston, Burmester, Chord, exaSound, Exogal, Hegel, Lampizator, Lector, Luxman, McIntosh, Meitner, Merging, Nagra, Naim, Playback Designs, PS Audio, Pyramix, Rega, Resolution Audio, Schiit, T+A, TotalDAC, Wadia, Weiss - essentially everyone who has had a leg up in the DAC market in the past years except the +20K segment.

Except for MSB top-tier, Mytek and of course Meridian that is the entire Stereophile Recommended Components A+ list missing. Add Brinkmann and it is the entire DAC list. Does that tell something?

Thoughts?


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So there are DAC's at every price point. There are ~8000 titles available. There are additional DAC's announced. Whats the issue?

Not everyone makes a DSD DAC either. :dunno:
 
still-one said:
So there are DAC's at every price point. There are ~8000 titles available. There are additional DAC's announced. Whats the issue?

Not everyone makes a DSD DAC either. :dunno:
Click to expand...

Believe it or not, I am not trying to talk down MQA. It’s the opposite, I want to try full decoding. I kind of like the unfolding level, but to my ears it is marginal and e.g. DSD is still better.

But if fully decoded MQA sounds better, that would be great as there is only a limited amount of DSD material available, but a lots of MQA material on Tidal (have a hifi account).

So, to try the real deal, I do need a fully decoding DAC and most of the announced partners are only unfolding. The problem is the Mytek is not good enough and would hence distort the test and I don’t want to go 18K for the Berkeley Reference 2 just to try it out.

I’m open for suggestions, which are the fully decoding DACs I should try to get my hands on?


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Kuoppis said:
Believe it or not, I am not trying to talk down MQA. It’s the opposite, I want to try full decoding. I kind of like the unfolding level, but to my ears it is marginal and e.g. DSD is still better.

But if fully decoded MQA sounds better, that would be great as there is only a limited amount of DSD material available, but a lots of MQA material on Tidal (have a hifi account).

So, to try the real deal, I do need a fully decoding DAC and most of the announced partners are only unfolding. The problem is the Mytek is not good enough and would hence distort the test and I don’t want to go 18K for the Berkeley Reference 2 just to try it out.

I’m open for suggestions, which are the fully decoding DACs I should try to get my hands on?


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Click to expand...

Unless you are in the market for a new DAC I am not suggesting anyone should run out and purchase a MQA capable DAC. The way I look at , if you are happy with your current hi-rez or DSD DAC then do not go out and seek a MQA solution. If you are like me and have found Tidal's SQ and library to your liking then you can always add a inexpensive MQA solution until it is time to purchase that new MQA capable DAC.

Note: I will be making a separate post regarding Tidal/ Roon SQ soon.
 
still-one said:
Unless you are in the market for a new DAC I am not suggesting anyone should run out and purchase a MQA capable DAC. The way I look at , if you are happy with your current hi-rez or DSD DAC then do not go out and seek a MQA solution. If you are like me and have found Tidal's SQ and library to your liking then you can always add a inexpensive MQA solution until it is time to purchase that new MQA capable DAC.

Note: I will be making a separate post regarding Tidal/ Roon SQ soon.
Click to expand...

I am kinda on the same page: want to try it but not ready yet to replace my current kit for a bit of MQA.


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Kuoppis,

The MSB Analog DAC is also fully MQA compliant via the USB port, and soon will be over Ethernet as well.
Prices start at $7000 in the US.


cheers,
Alex
 
Kuoppis said:
Believe it or not, I am not trying to talk down MQA. It’s the opposite, I want to try full decoding. I kind of like the unfolding level, but to my ears it is marginal and e.g. DSD is still better.

But if fully decoded MQA sounds better, that would be great as there is only a limited amount of DSD material available, but a lots of MQA material on Tidal (have a hifi account).

So, to try the real deal, I do need a fully decoding DAC and most of the announced partners are only unfolding. The problem is the Mytek is not good enough and would hence distort the test and I don’t want to go 18K for the Berkeley Reference 2 just to try it out.

I’m open for suggestions, which are the fully decoding DACs I should try to get my hands on?


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Click to expand...

Hi! Excuse me but why do you say the Mytek is not good enough?! How much MQA have you actually heard and on which dacs?

Many might disagree. The editors with Stereophile just gave a product of the year award to the Brooklyn.

I’ve owned 3 or 4 dacs that support MQA and find the Mytek to be a solid performer.
Just my assessment though and I appreciate yours can differ...just on what grounds?

Happy listening...


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asiufy said:
Kuoppis,

The MSB Analog DAC is also fully MQA compliant via the USB port, and soon will be over Ethernet as well.
Prices start at $7000 in the US.


cheers,
Alex
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info Alex, that’s good news. The Analog DAC is a proper one IMHO.

Do you know whether the MQA capability applies to all Analog DACs or whether you need a certain newer model for it to work?


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Kuoppis said:
Thanks for the info Alex, that’s good news. The Analog DAC is a proper one IMHO.

Do you know whether the MQA capability applies to all Analog DACs or whether you need a certain newer model for it to work?
Click to expand...

You need the new MQA-enabled USB module, as can be seen here:

http://www.msbtechnology.com/dacs/adac-pricing/

If you already have an Analog DAC with the USB module, you can upgrade to the new MQA-enabled one. It's very easy, pop the old module out and the new one in.

Otherwise, if you're ordering new, you can specify which module you want, so the MQA-haters don't need to pay the $500 extra :)


cheers,
alex
 
La Dolce Vita said:
Hi! Excuse me but why do you say the Mytek is not good enough?! How much MQA have you actually heard and on which dacs?

Many might disagree. The editors with Stereophile just gave a product of the year award to the Brooklyn.

I’ve owned 3 or 4 dacs that support MQA and find the Mytek to be a solid performer.
Just my assessment though and I appreciate yours can differ...just on what grounds?

Happy listening...


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Click to expand...

Hi Dolce Vita, intention was not to offend anyone and sorry if I did.

What I am just saying: yes the Mytek is a solid performer, but it is not a top performer like e.g. the Analog DAC IMHO. Some say its sound signature is a tad on the bright side. But if you say it is great, maybe its worth a more thorough listen.

What I don’t want to do is to put a mediocre DAC in my system to evaluate MQA and then underestimate MQA full decode qualities due to the DAC.


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asiufy said:
You need the new MQA-enabled USB module, as can be seen here:

http://www.msbtechnology.com/dacs/adac-pricing/

If you already have an Analog DAC with the USB module, you can upgrade to the new MQA-enabled one. It's very easy, pop the old module out and the new one in.

Otherwise, if you're ordering new, you can specify which module you want, so the MQA-haters don't need to pay the $500 extra [emoji4]


cheers,
alex
Click to expand...

This is a great option I need to explore, thanks again. You see, just need to ask your fellow sharks.

Do you know whether it is just the Analog DAC and the top-end or any MSB DAC?

I don’t want to dismiss MQA before hearing full decode in a good system. And if the assessment of others is to be trusted, then I won’t [emoji3].




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Kuoppis said:
This is a great option I need to explore, thanks again. You see, just need to ask your fellow sharks.

Do you know whether it is just the Analog DAC and the top-end or any MSB DAC?

I don’t want to dismiss MQA before hearing full decode in a good system. And if the assessment of others is to be trusted, then I won’t [emoji3].
Click to expand...

All MSB DACs have the optional MQA-enabled USB module now. The Reference and the SELECT actually use the exact same module.

A client just stopped by today to audition the Analog DAC, and it's always a pleasant surprise to go back to it. If you go for it because of MQA, you might just end up with a killer DAC, that'll also do great PCM and DSD!


cheers,
Alex
 
asiufy said:
All MSB DACs have the optional MQA-enabled USB module now. The Reference and the SELECT actually use the exact same module.

A client just stopped by today to audition the Analog DAC, and it's always a pleasant surprise to go back to it. If you go for it because of MQA, you might just end up with a killer DAC, that'll also do great PCM and DSD!


cheers,
Alex
Click to expand...

Thanks again Alex, that’s great info. Really appreciated.


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PS Audio direct stream do the full decode? If so they seem to be loved after the latest firmware update and can be slightly more affordable.
 
Kuoppis said:
What I don’t want to do is to put a mediocre DAC in my system to evaluate MQA and then underestimate MQA full decode qualities due to the DAC.


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Click to expand...

Bingo!



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I really don't feel you need to have a $10K + dac or streamer to enjoy MQA. Sure a $300 MQA dac is not going to sound as good as a $10k+ MQA dac. but right now there are some nice units out there that support full decoding for MQA very well and sound good to boot. The Lumins, the Aurender A10, PS Audio Directstream and the Directstream Jr for starters all under $10K. I've heard the Brookynn and I had the DAC in my system for months but the Lumin just sounds more musical to my ears ( Brooklyn = to much stuff in one box to suit me)
 
Seconding the PS Audio Directstream and Directstream Junior (I have the latter) as a not quite as expensive choice with good sound quality. Both do full MQA decode with the latest firmware, but only via the network interface. Sound quality is plenty good enough for me for the price point. I will say that I don't listen to as much MQA as I might simply because of the "network interface only" thing - My music comes almost exclusively from my Aurender, and its app and Tidal integration are quite a bit better than the PSA solution. As a result, I find myself only listening to full MQA during a "dedicated session". If I'm listening more casually, I'll take the convenience of the Aurender's internal / Tidal integration every time and just accept partial MQA unfolding via Aurender. Other than that, I have no gripes with this DAC.

I also have the Oppo 205, but didn't know it did MQA - is there a very recent software update that enables it? Even so, the performance of its Sabre 9038, though pretty darn good, isn't quite up to the same level as the PSA's FPGA to my ears, so I only ever use it as a transport.
 
2FlyingYorkies said:
Seconding the PS Audio Directstream and Directstream Junior (I have the latter) as a not quite as expensive choice with good sound quality. Both do full MQA decode with the latest firmware, but only via the network interface. Sound quality is plenty good enough for me for the price point. I will say that I don't listen to as much MQA as I might simply because of the "network interface only" thing - My music comes almost exclusively from my Aurender, and its app and Tidal integration are quite a bit better than the PSA solution. As a result, I find myself only listening to full MQA during a "dedicated session". If I'm listening more casually, I'll take the convenience of the Aurender's internal / Tidal integration every time and just accept partial MQA unfolding via Aurender. Other than that, I have no gripes with this DAC.

I also have the Oppo 205, but didn't know it did MQA - is there a very recent software update that enables it? Even so, the performance of its Sabre 9038, though pretty darn good, isn't quite up to the same level as the PSA's FPGA to my ears, so I only ever use it as a transport.
Click to expand...

For the OPPO and MQA add is in the early Nov update. Its a beta and the upgrade guidelines are critical so testing is ongoing as in any beta, https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-udp-203/UDP203-firmware-54-1108B.aspx
 
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