How Does a Brand Survive?

[Dizzie]

As I search for a new music server and amplifier I cross numerous brands off of my list for a variety of reasons. A major reason for my concern regarding music server builders is about future support and brand longevity. I wanted to stay domestic but that does not seem possible. I don't know why a large domestic company can't compete with Lumin or Aurender.

I have been orphaned too many times by brands that were leaders in the industry in their day. This has led me to a episode of philosophical gas passing.:S::dunno: How does a brand survive? What is the depth of their technology personnel? What is their investment in manufacturing equipment? What are there financial resources?

What happens to a brand when the head designer is no longer available? Many companies are built on the reputation of one individual. And many are not puppies any more. More like muzzles turned gray. At any rate, human and subject to mortal laws regarding health and accidents.

I recently passed on buying a music server because the builder could not answer one question. I respectfully asked what was the company's succession plan. The only response I got was it was a good question.

I think every good question deserves a good answer.

 

[Mike]

This is an excellent topic for discussion. This is something, as a dealer, we have to scrutinize so carefully.

Some brands have excellent succession plans in place. Pass Labs for example, is run by Desmond, Wayne, Kent and the CEO is Anastasia Sammut, the daughter of Joe Sammut, Nelson’s late business partner. Nelson is doing amp designs still.

Wilson Audio has Darryl. That was a sad, but necessary transition.

When you look at large, proper companies like Aurender, Lumin and Innuos, just to name a few, they have staff, teams, designers. They aren’t the one guy shop. I would encourage you to reconsider and look at one of those. Buying a great server made in America is about as likely as buying a world class computer made in America.

Audio companies are all small in nature (relatively speaking). With some of the largest having only 50 employees. When you compare that with other industries, it’s really quite modest. But this doesn’t mean they shouldn’t act with just as much fiduciary duty towards their customers and dealers. Acting professional is very important. As dealers, we don’t want to find out about some new product by reading it on a forum or having a customer call and ask us about it. This never happens with a professional company like Magico, Aurender, Lumin, Bowers & Wilkins, Pass Labs or others. But it can happen with a very small brand.

Back to your original question: “How Does a Brand Survive?” Just remember that there are great audio companies which can’t market, there are great marketing companies which manufacturer audio and then, the ones that do both equally well. The ones that do both tend to be the ones that survive.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[jmusica]

That's a well-articulated, informative write-up.

 

[nicoff]

As I search for a new music server and amplifier I cross numerous brands off of my list for a variety of reasons. A major reason for my concern regarding music server builders is about future support and brand longevity. I wanted to stay domestic but that does not seem possible. I don't know why a large domestic company can't compete with Lumin or Aurender.

I have been orphaned too many times by brands that were leaders in the industry in their day. This has led me to a episode of philosophical gas passing.:S::dunno: How does a brand survive? What is the depth of their technology personnel? What is their investment in manufacturing equipment? What are there financial resources?

What happens to a brand when the head designer is no longer available? Many companies are built on the reputation of one individual. And many are not puppies any more. More like muzzles turned gray. At any rate, human and subject to mortal laws regarding health and accidents.

I recently passed on buying a music server because the builder could not answer one question. I respectfully asked what was the company's succession plan. The only response I got was it was a good question.

I think every good question deserves a good answer.

This is a great post. For a while, I have been thinking about this same issue. I have also seen too many companies that cannot survive the demise of their founders. Not surprisingly, consumers are often left holding a bag of goods that few people want to buy. Many high-end manufacturers are (as Mike put it) 'one-guy shop'. Once they are gone, chances of continued success are next to zero. Consumers should be conscious of this when they are considering spending big bucks on a product (I gather that this is what you did, kudos to you!).

Mike provides valuable insight from the point of view of a dealer (and a consumer) see below.

This is an excellent topic for discussion. This is something, as a dealer, we have to scrutinize so carefully.

Some brands have excellent succession plans in place. Pass Labs for example, is run by Desmond, Wayne, Kent and the CEO is Anastasia Sammut, the daughter of Joe Sammut, Nelson’s late business partner. Nelson is doing amp designs still.

Wilson Audio has Darryl. That was a sad, but necessary transition.

When you look at large, proper companies like Aurender, Lumin and Innuos, just to name a few, they have staff, teams, designers. They aren’t the one guy shop. I would encourage you to reconsider and look at one of those. Buying a great server made in America is about as likely as buying a world class computer made in America.

Audio companies are all small in nature (relatively speaking). With some of the largest having only 50 employees. When you compare that with other industries, it’s really quite modest. But this doesn’t mean they shouldn’t act with just as much fiduciary duty towards their customers and dealers. Acting professional is very important. As dealers, we don’t want to find out about some new product by reading it on a forum or having a customer call and ask us about it. This never happens with a professional company like Magico, Aurender, Lumin, Bowers & Wilkins, Pass Labs or others. But it can happen with a very small brand.

Back to your original question: “How Does a Brand Survive?” Just remember that there are great audio companies which can’t market, there are great marketing companies which manufacturer audio and then, the ones that do both equally well. The ones that do both tend to be the ones that survive.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Very well said Mike. Regardless of the industry for any company to succeed they need more than just a talented founder. Too many companies that solely rely on a brilliant founder go-kaput.

Ah! And talking about 'one-guy shop', what about those high-end cable manufacturers who sell super-expensive cables (thousands of $$$) hailed by the audiophile press as the ultimate (at least until the next issue is published)? But of course, P.T. Barnum was right... There's a sucker born every minute - Wikipedia.

 

[Mr Peabody]

You just couldn't help yourself, you had to stick some type of anti-audiophile jab into the conversation.. And, there was no reason to copy Mike's post in your reply, you could have just referred to his reply or provide the post number, it's not like this thread has several pages. I may be wrong but it looks like your entire post was just a lead up to your snide cable remark. Which is entirely wrong by the way, as one example, Audioquest was shown to a store I worked at in the very early 90's and they are still going strong. I'm sure there are others with the same longgevity, when a product works it stays in the market. You need to open your mind, no company stays in business 40 years without offering a product with some tangible value.

This is a great post. For a while, I have been thinking about this same issue. I have also seen too many companies that cannot survive the demise of their founders. Not surprisingly, consumers are often left holding a bag of goods that few people want to buy. Many high-end manufacturers are (as Mike put it) 'one-guy shop'. Once they are gone, chances of continued success are next to zero. Consumers should be conscious of this when they are considering spending big bucks on a product (I gather that this is what you did, kudos to you!).

Mike provides valuable insight from the point of view of a dealer (and a consumer) see below.




Very well said Mike. Regardless of the industry for any company to succeed they need more than just a talented founder. Too many companies that solely rely on a brilliant founder go-kaput.

Ah! And talking about 'one-guy shop', what about those high-end cable manufacturers who sell super-expensive cables (thousands of $$$) hailed by the audiophile press as the ultimate (at least until the next issue is published)? But of course, P.T. Barnum was right... There's a sucker born every minute - Wikipedia.

 

[Mr Peabody]

This is an issue I feel most don't think about when buying but probably should. Some companies have people that can step in like Conrad Johnson and Bryston where purchase was done by in-house people but others like TRL who made tube gear and the designer dies suddenly, I understand he also kept his designs pretty much under wraps, I'm not exactly sure if they are defunct or not.

We see larger companies get bought up by holding companies, seems most of the time this works out pretty well providing needed cash but some go away.

Personally, although it's a valid concern, you could drive yourself crazy worrying about it in this economy and how we see business practices and consumer demand change.

 

[nicoff]

You just couldn't help yourself, you had to stick some type of anti-audiophile jab into the conversation.. And, there was no reason to copy Mike's post in your reply, you could have just referred to his reply or provide the post number, it's not like this thread has several pages. I may be wrong but it looks like your entire post was just a lead up to your snide cable remark. Which is entirely wrong by the way, as one example, Audioquest was shown to a store I worked at in the very early 90's and they are still going strong. I'm sure there are others with the same longgevity, when a product works it stays in the market. You need to open your mind, no company stays in business 40 years without offering a product with some tangible value.

Ouch! Something must have hurt somewhere...

 

[W9TR]

I think hard about company longevity before I open my wallet. This is from personal not so good experiences! I have had gear from Counterpoint, Escient, SAE, GAS, and AGI that was not supported after they went out of business. It’s devilishly hard to pick the winners in a race that can play out over decades.

Even some tiny single person companies survive the death of their founder. Koetsu survived Sugano's death, which was a pleasant surprise. What of Lampizator, and Holo Audio? I want both to succeed but I probably wouldn’t open my wallet because I’m risk adverse.

 

[asindc]

As I search for a new music server and amplifier I cross numerous brands off of my list for a variety of reasons. A major reason for my concern regarding music server builders is about future support and brand longevity. I wanted to stay domestic but that does not seem possible. I don't know why a large domestic company can't compete with Lumin or Aurender.

I have been orphaned too many times by brands that were leaders in the industry in their day. This has led me to a episode of philosophical gas passing.:S::dunno: How does a brand survive? What is the depth of their technology personnel? What is their investment in manufacturing equipment? What are there financial resources?

What happens to a brand when the head designer is no longer available? Many companies are built on the reputation of one individual. And many are not puppies any more. More like muzzles turned gray. At any rate, human and subject to mortal laws regarding health and accidents.

I recently passed on buying a music server because the builder could not answer one question. I respectfully asked what was the company's succession plan. The only response I got was it was a good question.

I think every good question deserves a good answer.

In case you are not familiar with Salk Audio, they are a company based in Michigan that makes a couple of servers, though they are more well known for their speakers: Salk Sound

 

[Elberoth]

As long as those servers are based on generic Motherboards (Innuos, Beatis, 432Evo etc), you will have no problem with maintaining them even if the company goes bust. Just take the server to the nearby computer shop and they will be able to fix it or in many cases upgrade it.

Even if your server had some custom software installed which cannot be upgraded anymore, you can always install Roon or similar system on them.

Maintaining a server like Aurender would be a much greater problem (next to impossible IMO) if the company folds.

 

[Oddiofyl]

Great customer service resulting in brand loyalty is one way. I also have some gear by defunct brands like Sonic Frontiers, B&K , OPPO , Fanfare..... all great stuff that fortunately works and looks great but you never know who will go bust.

 

[Bobvin]

Its a good question… not relegated to only audio. My wife is a commercial banker, says the question of succession is a common problem among many privately held companies/corporations. The second generation is, quite often, not up to the task. Bankers want to know how they’re going to be paid back, after that, they want to know how they’ll be paid back. And finally, they want to know how they’ll be paid back.

Many folks in this hobby buy and sell pieces regularly. ROI is more important to them I think than they the guy buying purely for sonics who intends to keep a piece indefinitely. Everything eventually breaks/fails/becomes obsolete — even us.

 

[Mordante]

I think some brands have a great products. But somehow stop the development or don't innovate anymore. I think Avalon speakers is an example of this. Avalon used to be one of the best. But somehow they have died. Also brands are depended on distributors and point of sales. The distributors can also make or break a brand.

I wonder what happened to Verity Audio, MIT, Avalon, Totem and others.