DSD...still crazy after all these years?

Mike

Mike

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As DSD technology approaches it's 20 year anniversary, we witnessed a spike of interest in SACD, followed a few years later by a spike in interest in DSD.

Is DSD still a desirable format for most users? Do you find yourself seeking out new DSD downloads?
 
I've been seeking DSD MQA downloads out of curiosity...

So where are those golden files?
 
In auditions and trials I haven't found DSD to be a superior format to standard PCM or other Hi-Rez alternatives. You will find recordings ranging from poor to outstanding in all formats. Most of the music I listen to was released as 16/44 so a DAC that gets that most out of that content is critical. If it also handles the occasional DSD or Hi-Rez file or remaster then that is a plus.
 
I agree

still-one said:
In auditions and trials I haven't found DSD to be a superior format to standard PCM or other Hi-Rez alternatives. You will find recordings ranging from poor to outstanding in all formats. Most of the music I listen to was released as 16/44 so a DAC that gets that most out of that content is critical. If it also handles the occasional DSD or Hi-Rez file or remaster then that is a plus.
Click to expand...
 
16/44 will be around for another 50 years. Long live the McIntosh MDA1000!

Longer than the current hi-def format variants of today, I think.
 
Steve
My concern is the avalanche move towards streaming versus owning content. I still purchase releases I like a lot but I just stream those marginal albums I might have owned in the past. I have absolutely no issue listening via Tidal as the SQ is stunning.

I see that Amazon is stocking fewer and fewer titles than in the past and rumor has it that Apple has recently "considered" getting out of the download business at some point. The average consumer has gotten so used to paying for TV and movie content that being asked to paying to rent music content is becoming a non-issue. Owning physical media will become harder to do and the price to own will be going up.
 
I have a different take on the PCM vs DSD issue. In my experience, it is more DAC dependent. In my experience, if you have a PCM optimized DAC of high (or highest quality) then PCM is better (and so is DSD converted to PCM). On the other hand, if you have DSD optimized DAC, then the converse is true. For best sound quality, I prefer to use my Pacific Microsonics Model Two for PCM (up to 192/24 which is as high as the Model Two goes - dual wire only and impossible to find), and for DSD and all multichannel files, my Merging NADAC mch sounds best. I am starting some experiments with HQP to see whether converting to 256DSD (both PCM and lower DSD files) has better sound with my NADAC.

Larry
 
To me DSD sounds far superior on every DAC I have tried... I actively search for DSD and SA-CD disks since I hear an immediate noticeable improvement over virtually any PCM that I have. I now have 80 PCM HD downloads and 84 DSD downloads. I can immediately tell when a PCM is playing. I have also up converted all of my PCM downloads to DSD and they definitely sound better. I am also 100% sure I have not heard a fraction of the DACs that most of you have and certainly have no experience with the real top end PCM DACs.

This difference I do hear however in both DSD DACs that I have had in my system, burrBrown PCM1795 (Teac) and Sabre ESS9018 (W4S), and in the Ayres Pono which also has the 9018 chip. I should also be able to run these comparisons soon in the Marantz using the Cirrus Logic CS4398 DAC.
 
still-one said:
Steve
My concern is the avalanche move towards streaming versus owning content. I still purchase releases I like a lot but I just stream those marginal albums I might have owned in the past. I have absolutely no issue listening via Tidal as the SQ is stunning.

I see that Amazon is stocking fewer and fewer titles than in the past and rumor has it that Apple has recently "considered" getting out of the download business at some point. The average consumer has gotten so used to paying for TV and movie content that being asked to paying to rent music content is becoming a non-issue. Owning physical media will become harder to do and the price to own will be going up.
Click to expand...

Jim,

I think streaming may very well be the way of the future. To get the best sound, people will still want a world class DAC, preamp, amp, speakers, etc.
 
Randy Myers said:
I have also up converted all of my PCM downloads to DSD and they definitely sound better. I am also 100% sure I have not heard a fraction of the DACs that most of you have and certainly have no experience with the real top end PCM DACs.
Click to expand...


Randy - very interesting. What program did you use to convert your PCM files to DSD?

I've heard the DCS Vivaldi, Soulution 7 series DAC, and of course the Berkeley Reference, Chord DAVE, Lumin S1 and many others. It's surprising how good they can make Redbook sound.
 
I use JRiver 21 to up convert. I play them back using a high end PC that has been heavily modified and is a dedicated headless Roon server, and a Surface Pro 3 as the Roon controller.

I am sure that a higher end DAC would do much better on PCM than what I use. And PCM sound good, but I hear an immediate and obvious difference when playing a DSD file.

I am anxious to hear my old Redbooks and my new SA-CDs sound on the new spinner, a Marantz SA8005. They keep saying it should arrive tomorrow!!!
 
Randy, I found JRiver to be ok, but not great for conversion. Have you considered converting the files permanently rather than on the fly?
 
Excellent DSD/WAW/FLAC same source comparison download here; http://www.soundliaison.com/

I believe the coupon code still works; ifimicroidac2

ifiidac2v9300sahdow.jpg
 
I do a permanent conversion. I do not convert on the fly. Is there other software that does better permanent conversion without doing it on the fly then JRiver? I also do not like playing with filters, etc. I know people say HQ Player, but that seems more for on the fly and requires really playing with filters, etc., from what I saw when investigating.

Mike said:
Randy, I found JRiver to be ok, but not great for conversion. Have you considered converting the files permanently rather than on the fly?
Click to expand...
 
Mike said:
Jim,

I think streaming may very well be the way of the future. To get the best sound, people will still want a world class DAC, preamp, amp, speakers, etc.
Click to expand...

Mike, I agree streaming seems to be the way of the future. It is amazing how quickly we have become accustomed to "renting" in lieu of owing. Many people lease cars, pay for streaming services, only have access to TV and movies when we continue to pay our monthly fees, rent internet access, pay ongoing fees to use computer software we once purchased and so on.

We are fortunate that we are at the point where any source sounds great through our systems.
 
still-one said:
In auditions and trials I haven't found DSD to be a superior format to standard PCM or other Hi-Rez alternatives. You will find recordings ranging from poor to outstanding in all formats. Most of the music I listen to was released as 16/44 so a DAC that gets that most out of that content is critical. If it also handles the occasional DSD or Hi-Rez file or remaster then that is a plus.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but I want PCM and DSD sweetspots in the same box. I dont want to compromise on either format any more than i have to.
 
Randy Myers said:
I do a permanent conversion. I do not convert on the fly. Is there other software that does better permanent conversion without doing it on the fly then JRiver? I also do not like playing with filters, etc. I know people say HQ Player, but that seems more for on the fly and requires really playing with filters, etc., from what I saw when investigating.
Click to expand...

HQ Player slaughters JRiver for DSD upsampling and even regular playback.
 
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