Decided I Needed to Go for Tube Preamp

Jack in Wilmington

Jack in Wilmington

Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2013
Messages
196
Location
Wilmington, De.
Took The Bryston back to the dealer as my time with it was up. Switching back and forth this last week between my Cary (tubed) and Bryston (SS) I've realized that I prefer the warmth of tubes. I've narrowed the search to the McIntosh C-2600 (Tubed) the Audio Research Reference 3, and the LS28. Any thoughts on these choices, or something else I should consider? thanks
 
Jack, as an owner of the ARC LS28 I couldn't be happier but..........if your basically looking for a 'newer version' of the Cary sound it would not be my suggestion. Its power supply regulation is handled via solid state (JFET) and even with 6H30P's in its output it is IMO more neutral than 'warm'.

if your looking for the warmth of tubes throughout may I suggest something from Conrad Johnson ?
 
Mikado463 said:
Jack, as an owner of the ARC LS28 I couldn't be happier but..........if your basically looking for a 'newer version' of the Cary sound it would not be my suggestion. Its power supply regulation is handled via solid state (JFET) and even with 6H30P's in its output it is IMO more neutral than 'warm'.

if your looking for the warmth of tubes throughout may I suggest something from Conrad Johnson ?
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Thanks Dave. Any thoughts on the McIntosh? The guy at Overture down here was pushing the C2700. I will check out the CJ.
 
I am biased toward McIntosh :)... gowning up in the shadow of the factory :). At some point I might get a Mc pre...

Is Balanced (XLR) important to you? For me it is. CJ is single ended only.
 
Randy regarding XLR IC's, are your runs long ? I use XLR's between my LS28 and my X260.8's because of the length (12') I see no 'real' sonic advantage for lengths that are short.
 
Randy Myers said:
I am biased toward McIntosh :)... gowning up in the shadow of the factory :). At some point I might get a Mc pre...

Is Balanced (XLR) important to you? For me it is. CJ is single ended only.
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It is to me also. Once I started to acquire balanced components, I began replacing some of my gear on purpose.
 
The ARC preamp I've owned (Reference 6) is wonderful - clean an neutral as many have described. With this, and being 6H30 tubes, it will have a different sound than those based on 12au7 (Cary) or 12ax7 / 12at7 (McIntosh) - circuits based on those tubes tend to have a more "classic" warm tube sound. But I can't say I'm enamored with those particular "classic" tubes for any line-level amplification (12ax7 is great for RIAA phono). I swap 12au7 for 12bh7 everywhere I can, and 12ax7 and 12at7 are too high in gain to be ideal for preamp use. Instead, I gravitate towards preamps that use 6H30, or 6922 / 6DJ8/ 7308, or 6SN7 (this last one being a better version of the classic tube sound). Shooting blind, I'd pick the LS28 from your list as it's likely closest to the Reference 6 which is superb. But if you like some added warmth you may be better off looking for 6922 or 6SN7 based preamps.
 
Mikado463 said:
Randy regarding XLR IC's, are your runs long ? I use XLR's between my LS28 and my X260.8's because of the length (12') I see no 'real' sonic advantage for lengths that are short.
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I use XLR wherever I can. I have had several manufacture representatives, including two owners tell me to always use XLR whenever possible. Also, I very much prefer the connection and security of hookups with the XLR versus RCA cables. :).

The only RCAs connecting to my pre-amp are those coming from the tuner. The only other RCAs are the outputs from the amplifier going to the two subs. All other hookups, the main amp, to the headphone amp and from the phono stage, the DAC, and the spinner are all XLR.
 
Randy Myers said:
I use XLR wherever I can. I have had several manufacture representatives, including two owners tell me to always use XLR whenever possible. Also, I very much prefer the connection and security of hookups with the XLR versus RCA cables. :).

The only RCAs connecting to my pre-amp are those coming from the tuner. The only other RCAs are the outputs from the amplifier going to the two subs. All other hookups, the main amp, to the headphone amp and from the phono stage, the DAC, and the spinner are all XLR.
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All well and good but sonically speaking unless the topology (component -to-component) is balanced I stand by my comment of no sonic benefit, long cable runs aside. Agreed on the (in theory) better connectivity with XLR's
 
Jack - you can tell from my signature that I am biased toward McIntosh. I have a C 2300 and a C 1100. The C 2300 has a warm tube sound and glorious midrange at the expense of the ultimate in resolution. It is a fun preamp for tube rolling as the tubes do make a difference in the sound. The C 1100 is very neutral and tube independent. Amazingly quiet, better than most SS preamps. Both have excellent phono stages.

McIntosh has produced a series of preamps having substandard DAC’s onboard. C 2500, C 2600, C 2700. You can pick up any one of these earlier units (2300, 2500, 2600) on the secondhand market and see if you like the sound. If not, you can sell it and not lose anything.

I published a techie review of the C 2300. It is in the Electronics section of this site.
 
Jack needs two XLR outs on the preamp to go to power and headphone amps.

Jack the Coda 07x bested an equivalent priced TRL tube preamp. There are solid state options if interested. The 07x was better in imaging, texture and warmth wthout sacrificing detail.

ARC and Pass would be interesting to hear together. Pass has a very dark background where ARC has almost unique sort of white background, what would that combo produce or would one dominate. One thing I always like about ARC is the life like imaging. Most good gear provides an image of the performer but ARC adds like another dimension. Other tube gear may do this but I've never experienced it like with ARC.
 
I do love my PrimaLuna Dialogue preamp, and the new version does have balanced inputs.

The Linear Tube Audio (LTA) MicroZOTL preamp is also quite interesting, and more of a neutral sounding tube preamp.

The PS Audio BHK preamp is tube based and balanced. They also give you a 30 day return policy.

A BAT preamp would also be balanced and tube based.
 
I think Hattor deserves being brought up here. I know it is certainly not on the level of many of the others mentioned in this thread (pricewise, debatable on performance wise in my view), and I know that Hattor is known for being one of the finest passive pre-amps out there. However, the top version with AMRG Trans resistors is quite good and then add the Tube Active Stage and you now have a pretty fine pre-amp that can be ran either passive or active, a nice tube warmth and musicality, a true three box pre-amp with a really great array of hookups. There are five inputs and 4 outputs that can be configured any way you want. I got 3 pairs XLR ins, 2 pairs RCA ins, 2 pairs XLR outs, and 2 pairs RCA outs. And it also comes with a really fine metal remote and both units are shipped from Poland in flight cases usually fairly quickly. By the way, Arek (the developer and owner) highly recommends keeping as many attached components balanced as you can.
 
I am wondering if Bob Backert would swap out another input or output to provide your needed connections on one of the 3 Backert Labs Pres. Worth an ask. They are pretty nice units and you can see them a few blocks from my house if you visit his shop.
 
I replaced my Cary SLP-05 with an Ayon Auris a while back and couldn't be happier. The switchable gain is a nice feature so you are not stuck using just the bottom 1/3 of the volume control.
 
stereogeek said:
I replaced my Cary SLP-05 with an Ayon Auris a while back and couldn't be happier. The switchable gain is a nice feature so you are not stuck using just the bottom 1/3 of the volume control.
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I've been looking for a Cary SLP-05 on the used board. I liked the sound of my SLP-03, buy as the hobby grows so does the need for connections. So I must move on.
 
When I auditioned the LS28 I found it dark sounding but very transparent. I actually preferred the sound of the the Atma-Sphere MP-3 as I was able to compare the 2 preamps at Audio Perfection here in Minneapolis. It was way more musical. In the end, I ended up buying my BAT but I probably should have gone with the MP-3.
 
Jack in Wilmington said:
I've been looking for a Cary SLP-05 on the used board. I liked the sound of my SLP-03, buy as the hobby grows so does the need for connections. So I must move on.
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I’ve been a long term SLP-05 owner and have been very happy with it. I would recommend their “ultimate upgrade” as performance improves significantly. It does have high gain, so proper amp matching or attenuators is important.

Regarding XLR vs RCA (at least with the Cary) I have had good success with both depending upon the amp. I am using a 26’ RCA run to the amp right now with no issues whatsoever.
 
I spent the last two days looking at the used market and I finally worked out a deal on a McIntosh C 2600. It's in like new condition. It really came down to the McIntosh, the Audio Research LS28 and the Audio Research Ref. 3. I want to thank everybody that took time to post, because I had so many parameters to work around that I'm sure it was frustrating at times. Through this experience I discovered an alternative to Audiogon called U.S. Audio Mart. It never hurts to have choices. The preamp should be arriving this week. Early Christmas Gift?
 
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