Curious about a couple of alignment tools

M

MusicDirector

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I've been wondering about a couple of things:
1) Is the $50 DB Systems protractor worth the investment? I'm asking because my protractor that came with my Shure cart is getting a little questionable in condition in spite of my efforts to protect it. I have a mirrored protractor, but while it helped me at first in understanding these things, it's more hindrance than help now.

2)I also ran across this:Pro-Ject Cartridge Alignment Tool Handy Tool Will Make Set Up A Breeze. Seems to be new as I have not seen it before. I know about the Feickert Protractor, but it is uber expensive to me since I use and just personally prefer legacy tables.
I'm looking at the Project linked above because when it comes TT/Cart setup I'm more than interested in making my life easier within reason. At $150 it's easier to save up for and just makes more sense to use on a south of $3K table (In my case, well south).
I was concerned that it was only for Project tables, but it turns out it can be used on other tables, but I've also read the the instructions are so vague about that it's almost as if they wasted time to print them.
The only difference I can see between the Project and the Feickert is that the Project looks to be acrylic and the Feickert is metal. Are there other differences between them that are significant?

Would it be worth getting a gadget like the Project or does it not make life that much easier or am I still better off (besides the monetary savings) with a DB systems type thing, a white lined index card and my "help me see this SOB" glasses?

~Eric
 
Eric, you should give Jeff at A/V Solutions (925-425-0450) a call. He's a member here and has a vast knowledge of everything analog. Just be prepared to spend at least an hour listening to him. :)
 
MusicDirector said:
I've been wondering about a couple of things:
1) Is the $50 DB Systems protractor worth the investment? I'm asking because my protractor that came with my Shure cart is getting a little questionable in condition in spite of my efforts to protect it. I have a mirrored protractor, but while it helped me at first in understanding these things, it's more hindrance than help now.

2)I also ran across this:Pro-Ject Cartridge Alignment Tool Handy Tool Will Make Set Up A Breeze. Seems to be new as I have not seen it before. I know about the Feickert Protractor, but it is uber expensive to me since I use and just personally prefer legacy tables.
I'm looking at the Project linked above because when it comes TT/Cart setup I'm more than interested in making my life easier within reason. At $150 it's easier to save up for and just makes more sense to use on a south of $3K table (In my case, well south).
I was concerned that it was only for Project tables, but it turns out it can be used on other tables, but I've also read the the instructions are so vague about that it's almost as if they wasted time to print them.
The only difference I can see between the Project and the Feickert is that the Project looks to be acrylic and the Feickert is metal. Are there other differences between them that are significant?

Would it be worth getting a gadget like the Project or does it not make life that much easier or am I still better off (besides the monetary savings) with a DB systems type thing, a white lined index card and my "help me see this SOB" glasses?

~Eric
Click to expand...
didnt we talk about this recently?? accutrack, for your specific arm and at $50 its a bargain. or a universal one for multiple arms. cant go wrong easy to read and easy to use.
i was messing with my arm last week and accidently let it go while the set screw wasnt totally tightened down. so i put it back into where i was guessing is the right position height and left to right. then checked the cart and it was a little off. pulled out the accutrak it took but 1 minute to get it back into the right spot then bust out a mirror and check the azimuth which was dead on. (to my eyes) . its the best ive used and well worth the $50 . i check my cart every couple weeks to make sure it hasnt moved as well. and although i use the baerwald setting i like to try the stevenson and loefgren settngs for a little while as well.
 
Eric

The most "cost effective" thing for you since you are dealing with multiple TT's is to figure the spindle to pivot distance for each TT and then use Conrad Hoffmans "Arc Protractor" program on VE. You can make a separate protractor for each TT and use whichever alignment type you want.
 
Jack said:
Eric

The most "cost effective" thing for you since you are dealing with multiple TT's is to figure the spindle to pivot distance for each TT and then use Conrad Hoffmans "Arc Protractor" program on VE. You can make a separate protractor for each TT and use whichever alignment type you want.
Click to expand...

Hi Jack, I've tried that before, but I can't get them to print correctly. I did figure out how to make them stiff enough to use though. I've tried printing them 6 different ways and they just were not right. Also I don't know how to figure out Pivot distance let alone the other info to put in if I remember correctly. (I think I was just guessing off what was in the manuals and pivot distance was not listed if I recall amongst other things missing).
Of course, I did not have a standard by which to measure after the first three obviously botched ones (looked to be far too small on two of them and then one was way off the page), but I had to go with my gut and lack of confidence in judging the other 3 incorrect as well plus the fact that I don't know how to measure some of the stuff I think.

That's when I decided my best bet was to just use the protractor that came with my Shure cart and a line index card and hope for the best. So far, I've been lucky, but I also figure than can't hold out forever or can it?

Is there a secret to getting those Hoffman protractor's right?

To be honest I really don't know how those Project and Feickert things work exactly which is why I asked because something like that make not make things easier for me. That's why I also asked about the DB systems protractor as a replacement for the Shure protractor.
 
Petro85 said:
didnt we talk about this recently?? accutrack, for your specific arm and at $50 its a bargain. or a universal one for multiple arms. cant go wrong easy to read and easy to use.
i was messing with my arm last week and accidently let it go while the set screw wasnt totally tightened down. so i put it back into where i was guessing is the right position height and left to right. then checked the cart and it was a little off. pulled out the accutrak it took but 1 minute to get it back into the right spot then bust out a mirror and check the azimuth which was dead on. (to my eyes) . its the best ive used and well worth the $50 . i check my cart every couple weeks to make sure it hasnt moved as well. and although i use the baerwald setting i like to try the stevenson and loefgren settngs for a little while as well.
Click to expand...

I think I do recall that now that you mention it. I recall that I do like them and I also recall having to either go with two of them for two different tables (really the best thing to do) or going with a universal one. However, I also recall that I have no way of getting them anyway. I know the site or what there is of it and just taking a look I see that it's paypal only which is a non-starter for me.
 
dlb2 said:
Eric, you should give Jeff at A/V Solutions (925-425-0450) a call. He's a member here and has a vast knowledge of everything analog. Just be prepared to spend at least an hour listening to him. :)
Click to expand...

I may just do that. Yeah, I better be careful or I might get educated.:)
 
Eric

In printing Conrad's protractors you have to make sure the scaling feature, such as fit to page is turned off on the printer settings. If you like and have figured out the Baerwald Shure protractor, just reinforce it on the bottom with something like the cardboard from a cereal box and keep using it. It will work fine as long as you have enough room in the headshell slots for Baerwald. There are multiple threads on various sites on how to measure with cheap digital caliper.

http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=9545.0
 
Jack said:
Eric

In printing Conrad's protractors you have to make sure the scaling feature, such as fit to page is turned off on the printer settings. If you like and have figured out the Baerwald Shure protractor, just reinforce it on the bottom with something like the cardboard from a cereal box and keep using it. It will work fine as long as you have enough room in the headshell slots for Baerwald. There are multiple threads on various sites on how to measure with cheap digital caliper.

http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=9545.0
Click to expand...

Good idea for the Shure Baerwald I have. I'll do that. Yes, it just barely works on the Denon TT. Pretty much set the cart all the way forward and you have it. At least that's just about what it took for me and it's just fine, no issues at all. The Denon is more set to the Stevenson alignment which is probably the reason, but like I said, it worked with my Ortfon 2M Bronze with no ill effect.
The Pioneer is more Baerwald friendly which doesn't always make it easier because you end up someplace in the middle of the shell and then you have to tighten down those screws before you lose the setting (which requires one to put their left foot behind their neck while passing a chicken feather over the table while stroking the back of a large Yak with the other hand while holding the cart at the same time with your third hand that you should have grown in your yoga session before performing this action......LOL! Ok, it's not that bad).:) I'm kidding.

Thanks for the link, it sounds easy,...I think.
I don't think my calipers are 12 inch though. If not, I'm hoping that is remedied by a trip to the local Harbor Freight.

~Eric
 
Thanks to Petro for reminding me about Accutrak and thanks to Jeff whom I spoke with this morning for explaining the accutrak and encouraging me to get one. Also thanks to Jeff for sharing further more advanced tips for setting up my TTs and suggesting I get some Last cleaner & treatment. (I've been wondering about that stuff for a while. He also turned me on to some more cleaning brushes to look at and I discovered that I have been using my carbon fiber brush the correct way all this time (by instinct) and that I am using the correct dipping cleaner (plain old Magic Eraser. I even made little holders with lids for it). So I got two right!
I'm in contact with Ken for one or two Accutracks for my two tables. I'm kind of excited about using them now.:eyebrow:
 
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