Compliance Question

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Mechnutt

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I have a question about Cartridge compliance. I bought a refurbished vintage 1977 Pioneer PL-55x TT for my son about 2yrs ago. He is finally interested in his own vinyl rig. I just bought him a used Emotiva XPS phono preamp which has very good reviews and is MM/MC with cartridge loading for MC. The TT has a warmer sound ( I tried it in my system with an Ortofon Red cartridge that a friend loaned me to test the TT). The tone arm is medium mass although back then it was considered low mass. I want to pair it with good budget cartridge that has a neutral to slightly bright or lively sound.

Do I use static or dynamic compliance when pairing with a tone arm. For example, this AT150SA cartridge has these specs-

- Static compliance: 40 × 10-6 cm/dyne
- Dynamic compliance: 10 × 10-6 cm/dyne (100Hz)

Plus the Dynamic Compliance is rated at 100Hz. Would you consider this to be high, med or low compliance. Going by the Dynamic compliance it seems to be a low compliance cartridge. I can pick this cartridge up for $271.

I was also considering an Ortophon Blue-

- Compliance dynamic lateral: 20 µm/mN

I was also thinking about a MC Denon DL-300 which appears to be medium compliance, but I don't know much about the sound (I can't use a warm cartridge)



Much Thanks,

Larry
 
Hmm, none of you vinyl guys have any opinions?

I did find some useful info. For compliance rated at 100Hz, you need to multiply it by 1.8 to 2 to get the rating at the typical resonance frequency of 10Hz for most tonearms. This means that the cartridge in my previous post is medium to high compliance.
 
I think you want dynamic compliance to minimize resonances. But man, it's been a while since I've heard those terms.


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Shame your Pioneer PL-55x manual doesn't note the weight (mass) of your tonearm, but of course to get the total mass measurement you would also have to add the headshell weight the cartridge screws and measure them together on a scale and then add those figures in the little Freek's Resonant Frequency Calculator spreadsheet along with your cart mass and you should have your compliance number,. http://www.theanalogdept.com/cartridge___arm_matching.htm

Hope this helps, I've never used the spreadsheet as my TT maker provdes recommendations on cartridges.

Here is another
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=26822
http://www.resfreq.com/resonancecalculator.html
 
Thanks CCP, I have searched Vinyl Engine and just about everywhere to find the Tone Arm mass. I have used that resonance calculator for my Thorens. I guess I will just get a medium compliance cartridge. I just may go with the LP Gear AT95SA or AT-7V cartridge. Some of the Denon's will work (DL-110 or DL-300 series) but are probably too warm sounding for my son's system.
 
Mechnutt said:
Thanks CCP, I have searched Vinyl Engine and just about everywhere to find the Tone Arm mass. I have used that resonance calculator for my Thorens. I guess I will just get a medium compliance cartridge. I just may go with the LP Gear AT95SA or AT-7V cartridge. Some of the Denon's will work (DL-110 or DL-300 series) but are probably too warm sounding for my son's system.
Click to expand...

Would a Ortofon 2M Red work? It's like $99


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Mike said:
Would a Ortofon 2M Red work? It's like $99


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Click to expand...

Mike, the Red will work but my son and I found it too noisy. When I got my Thoren's a friend loaned me a Red. While it is dynamic and musical, it was bright with a light of noise. I would like something a bit more refined. I am considering the Blue however along with a Goldring 2200. Budget is under $300. I am also considering a Clear Audio Concept V2 but I cannot find the compliance specs and there are not a lot of reviews on it or the Goldring. The Vinyl rig will be paired with a Parasound A21 amp and a DIY Pass B1 preamp but we are just finishing building the Pass DIY Bride of Son of Zen preamp with high end Clarity, Mundorf and Elna caps, Shinkoh Tantalum and Audio note resistors and power transformer. It is fully balanced and should be a nice step up from the B1

I will know a bit more when I get the Emotiva XPS-1 phono preamp and hear what it sounds like. If it leans on the brighter side then I may just pick up a Nagaoka MP-150 as there are still a few available for just under $300.
 
Larry

I had the XPS-1 for a little of a year and it was not lean or bright in my system. A safe bet compliance wise is the AT-120 or even the 440ml. They are fairly popular choices with the Technics 1200 crowd and the tonearm on the Pioneer should be close in terms of weight. I used the XPS for a while with the Denon DL-301 Mk II and it was a good combo. Best price is probably going to be at One Call in Spokane.

https://onecall.com/
 
Mechnutt said:
Hmm, none of you vinyl guys have any opinions?

I did find some useful info. For compliance rated at 100Hz, you need to multiply it by 1.8 to 2 to get the rating at the typical resonance frequency of 10Hz for most tonearms. This means that the cartridge in my previous post is medium to high compliance.
Click to expand...

I am puzzled by cartridge manufacturers using 100hz to express the compliance level of their products. It's useless. The 1.8 to 2 multiple is not necessarily reliable. I find that recommended VTF is a better indicator in most instances. If it tracks at 1.8 grams or more, it's usually fine for vintage tables. My understanding is that s-shaped tone arms on most vintage turntables are medium to heavy relative mass. Noteable exceptions being certain SME models.
 
Try1256, the tone arm on the Pioneer PL-55x was considered low mass for that time period. Today it would be considered medium mass. I tend to agree with you that if the VTF is 1.8 or more for a cartridge, that it is probably a low to medium compliant cartridge.

Any one here have a Goldring 2200? Just curious as to how it sounds. The few user reviews have be all over the place. I wonder how it compares to an Ortofon 2M Blue.
 
Does anyone here have any experience with the Ortophon Quintet Red Cartridge? Just wondering what it sounds like and how it compares to a 2M Blue or Bronze.
 
From my experience, all the Japanese tables of yesteryear had high mass tonearms. Beside the fact that cartridge prices have skyrocketed, Goldring carts in my book are old designs with new prices. I do own a high output MC Goldring (don’t recall the model #) and found it does not live up to it’s $750 price tag. Pretty one dimensional. Not that I am a big fan of high end Grado’s, but for mid-fi stuff Grado is great. Though not terrific trackers, they are very tolerant of compliance issues. Not for very low mass tone arms, but they tend to like everything else.
 
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