Cartridge thoughts...specifically Lyra (Etna & Etna SL)?

[analogguy]

Hey, all!
I'm considering the purchase of a new cartridge. I've always been intrigued by Lyra cartridges going back to the early days when they were imported by Immedia, though I've never actually heard one in my system. (I did hear one when Immedia had a storefront, with Herron electronics.)


Well, we're 15 years on from that, and now I'm looking at the Etna or Etna SL.


My system is tube-based throughout, and I use a step-up transformer with 3 ohm and 40 ohm taps (pretty much use it in the 40 ohm configuration).


I have two tonearms -- one set up with a Magic Diamond (0.4mV output) and the other is a Dynavector XV-1s mono (0.25mV). The Magic Diamond was just re-tipped by Soundsmith. To be honest, I don't listen to the Dynavector very often.


I listen to a bunch of rock (last 2 records were Tool's Aenima and The Cure Galore), but I've also got a large collection of 50s/60s acoustic jazz and vocals. Call it 60% rock, 35% jazz, 5% classical/other.


Any opinions on Etna v Etna SL if I have to choose one? Should I test out both? Should I consider the Atlas?


Thanks for any thoughts.

 

[joeinid]

Welcome to the forum analogguy, thank you for joining.

 

[analogguy]

Thank you, joeinid.

 

[Etunes]

Hey, all!
I'm considering the purchase of a new cartridge. I've always been intrigued by Lyra cartridges going back to the early days when they were imported by Immedia, though I've never actually heard one in my system. (I did hear one when Immedia had a storefront, with Herron electronics.)


Well, we're 15 years on from that, and now I'm looking at the Etna or Etna SL.


My system is tube-based throughout, and I use a step-up transformer with 3 ohm and 40 ohm taps (pretty much use it in the 40 ohm configuration).


I have two tonearms -- one set up with a Magic Diamond (0.4mV output) and the other is a Dynavector XV-1s mono (0.25mV). The Magic Diamond was just re-tipped by Soundsmith. To be honest, I don't listen to the Dynavector very often.


I listen to a bunch of rock (last 2 records were Tool's Aenima and The Cure Galore), but I've also got a large collection of 50s/60s acoustic jazz and vocals. Call it 60% rock, 35% jazz, 5% classical/other.


Any opinions on Etna v Etna SL if I have to choose one? Should I test out both? Should I consider the Atlas?


Thanks for any thoughts.

Welcome to AS Analofguy,

I think there are a lot amazing cartridges at that price point . I've owned the Etna and Atlas and both were very well rounded leaning towards the revealing side of things. I find Koetsu Urushi and now my ZYX Omega Prem a tad warmer. Honestly great cartridge comes down to taste. Personally this is one of those almost impossible things deciding based off opinion via forum or review. Best to have a listen some how.

 

[analogguy]

Welcome to AS Analofguy,

I think there are a lot amazing cartridges at that price point . I've owned the Etna and Atlas and both were very well rounded leaning towards the revealing side of things. I find Koetsu Urushi and now my ZYX Omega Prem a tad warmer. Honestly great cartridge comes down to taste. Personally this is one of those almost impossible things deciding based off opinion via forum or review. Best to have a listen some how.

Thanks so much. I appreciate the reply.

Unfortunately, testing is not an option for me.

Any personal comments on the Etna vs Atlas that you can share?

I've read great stuff about both but it tends to be from people who had one or the other, not both. I can get a good deal on the Etna, which is appealing; I'm not sure about the Atlas. One of the most glowing reviews was from someone who listens to 80% classical, whereas as said above I'm about 60% rock, 35% jazz/acoustic/vocals, 5% (or less) classical.

Sounds like the SL versions are generally worth it.

 

[Etunes]

Thanks so much. I appreciate the reply.

Unfortunately, testing is not an option for me.

Any personal comments on the Etna vs Atlas that you can share?

I've read great stuff about both but it tends to be from people who had one or the other, not both. I can get a good deal on the Etna, which is appealing; I'm not sure about the Atlas. One of the most glowing reviews was from someone who listens to 80% classical, whereas as said above I'm about 60% rock, 35% jazz/acoustic/vocals, 5% (or less) classical.

Sounds like the SL versions are generally worth it.

I'm not very good at review lingo. I sold both. I thought they did the same thing in my system which was sound a tad revealing. Impossible to know if it was the setup, cartridge etc... I know not much help. Can't comment on SL never heard them.

 

[analogguy]

I'm not very good at review lingo. I sold both. I thought they did the same thing in my system which was sound a tad revealing. Impossible to know if it was the setup, cartridge etc... I know not much help. Can't comment on SL never heard them.

that's ok...i don't care about 'review lingo', per se -- just real-world impressions. you're a member here, right, so i figure you have a bunch of knowledge.

what i'd love to hear is how it moved you (or not) emotionally, made you want to play more records, made certain types of music better/worse -- ya know, in music lovers' words.

what were the downstream electronics, and what cartridge(s) do you prefer?

don't hear of too many people dumping the etna/atlas, so i'm very curious for your impression. it's SUPER easy to find glowing recommendations.

thank you for the time. it is helpful to me.

 

[cmarin]

that's ok...i don't care about 'review lingo', per se -- just real-world impressions. you're a member here, right, so i figure you have a bunch of knowledge.

what i'd love to hear is how it moved you (or not) emotionally, made you want to play more records, made certain types of music better/worse -- ya know, in music lovers' words.

what were the downstream electronics, and what cartridge(s) do you prefer?

don't hear of too many people dumping the etna/atlas, so i'm very curious for your impression. it's SUPER easy to find glowing recommendations.

thank you for the time. it is helpful to me.

Hi analogguy,

I currently have an Atlas cart and will have an opportunity to test an Etna SL in a few weeks for an extended side-by-side listening comparison in my system.

The rest of the analog source includes a Kodo The Beat turntable with an LT Schroeder arm.

Will keep you posted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[analogguy]

Hi analogguy,

I currently have an Atlas cart and will have an opportunity to test an Etna SL in a few weeks for an extended side-by-side listening comparison in my system.

The rest of the analog source includes a Kodo The Beat turntable with an LT Schroeder arm.

Will keep you posted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

thanks. i'll be curious for your thoughts. however, i'll probably have to pull the trigger in the next 24-48h.

love to hear anything you have to say about the atlas. what type of music do you listen to most? do you find the atlas has any particular strengths -- or does it leave you wanting in any areas?

PS i always wanted a schroeder tonearm!

 

[BobM]

The Lyra's all have a very similar house sound, you just get "more" as you go up the line. But of course, there is a law of diminishing returns. I have a Kleos and think that may indeed be the sweet spot in their line, but go for whatever your budget will allow.

 

[jfrech]

I've owned 4 lyras in my life. Lydian Beta, Helicon, Skala, Atlas. All are killer good.

I might be a bit careful about the SL versions. You haven't posted anything about your phono stage...(quiet) gain is crucial here along with your SUT for the SL versions. Lyra is also quick to state hi capacitance phono cables aren't so good either. I suspect you'll be using the 3 ohm tap on your SUT.

I think it's fair to say a normal Etna is preferred to a Etna SL with not enough gain/possible tube noise. If you have the gain...go with the SL...

 

[analogguy]

I've owned 4 lyras in my life. Lydian Beta, Helicon, Skala, Atlas. All are killer good.

I might be a bit careful about the SL versions. You haven't posted anything about your phono stage...(quiet) gain is crucial here along with your SUT for the SL versions. Lyra is also quick to state hi capacitance phono cables aren't so good either. I suspect you'll be using the 3 ohm tap on your SUT.

I think it's fair to say a normal Etna is preferred to a Etna SL with not enough gain/possible tube noise. If you have the gain...go with the SL...

thank you for the post. i agree with the caution on the SL.

i've been trying to sort out some technical details on my phono stage:

as best i can tell right now, my SUT (kondo ksl-sfz) is 1:10, 1:32 and 1:64 @ 1, 3 and 40 ohm taps (=20, 30 and 36dB gain, respectively). this feeds a phono-only stage (audio note m8 RIAA). sensitivity is reported as .125mV to get 1V output. doesn't that imply an 18dB (1:8) gain? i'm confused there because one document showed a 37dB gain.*

amp is a low-power SET with pretty efficient speakers.

i don't use a line-level preamp, so no additional gain there. the m8 feeds an amplifier with volume pots.

cable runs are short -- about 0.5m from arm to SUT, SUT to pre, and pre to amp. i'm not sure about the capacitance. they are silver cables for the lower-level signals.

practical experience with 2 cartridges:

i use both a magic diamond (0.4mV output) and dynavector xv-1s mono (0.25mV) into the 40 ohm tap. for rock music, the setup is as loud as i'd ever want with the magic diamond, but i have to max out the volume pots on the amp for the dynavector.

the dynavector on the 3 ohm tap has plenty of volume (makes sense if my above calculations are correct....an additional 10dB gain) but perhaps sounds just a touch muffled or constrained in the higher frequencies.

there's no noise issue during quiet passages or gaps between songs. i think this is a sign that the inherent noise level of my system is acceptably low.

the lyra cartridges seem to have a very low recommended load, so the 3 ohm tap might provide more gain without sacrifice at the top end.

summary?
so where does this leave me? seems like the normal lyra would not be a problem at all--if anything, running it into the 3 ohm tap might be too much gain.

the SL -- if it can handle the 3 ohm loading -- would seem to be fine.

any thoughts or comments?


* NOTE: i'm skeptical of my calculation because 20dB from the SUT + 18dB from the phono stage does not seem enough to power any system, and yet it does. so...maybe the phono stage really is 37dB = 57dB total gain @ 40 ohm and 67dB @ 3 ohm.

 

[analogguy]

The Lyra's all have a very similar house sound, you just get "more" as you go up the line. But of course, there is a law of diminishing returns. I have a Kleos and think that may indeed be the sweet spot in their line, but go for whatever your budget will allow.

thank you.

from what i read, the etna and atlas might not be a straight "more expensive is more everything" deal (with diminishing returns, of course). the few reports i read suggest a difference, though i'm not 100% sure what it is.

haven't really seen the regular v SL comparisons.

the Kleos looks very intriguing and by all accounts a great performer!

 

[analogguy]

I've owned 4 lyras in my life. Lydian Beta, Helicon, Skala, Atlas. All are killer good.

out of curiosity, what brought you to where you are now? is the clearaudio goldfinger statement in your signature current?

 

[jfrech]

out of curiosity, what brought you to where you are now? is the clearaudio goldfinger statement in your signature current?

Yes on the Goldfinger Statement. It's a wonderful cartridge in it's own right. Honestly, I got frustrated at Lyra on their long wait times...the mail order places always seemed to have them...but your local dealer may have to wait weeks (and he was the guy dialing it in for me!). This opened the door to a Goldfinger trial at home...and after some fits and starts...it won me over. Plus ClearAudio has a different biz model where the importer stocks them until someone buys. Vs asking dealers to stock...hoping a client comes along. The ClearAudio's are usually 24 hours away from what ever dealer you choose.

Notice this isn't saying anything negative about the Lyra sound-which is killer good. I do think the Goldfinger is maybe a rung up the ladder...with the price (ouch) to match.

 

[jfrech]

* NOTE: i'm skeptical of my calculation because 20dB from the SUT + 18dB from the phono stage does not seem enough to power any system, and yet it does. so...maybe the phono stage really is 37dB = 57dB total gain @ 40 ohm and 67dB @ 3 ohm.

I'm pretty sure your phono stage is 37db plus the SUT. So if you can use the 3 ohm tap (which my guess you can) then you only have 67db which is pretty good is my guess. Lyra also makes a pretty nice SUT, specifically for their cartridges. This might be a safer bet with your phono...

I've read GREAT things about your Kondo...

What about the Kondo cartridge? Seems like a hand and glove for the set up you have?

 

[analogguy]

I'm pretty sure your phono stage is 37db plus the SUT. So if you can use the 3 ohm tap (which my guess you can) then you only have 67db which is pretty good is my guess. Lyra also makes a pretty nice SUT, specifically for their cartridges. This might be a safer bet with your phono...

I've read GREAT things about your Kondo...

i signed in to correct a piece of information i posted earlier, and i noticed your reply. thanks for that.

the 37dB makes intuitive sense, and yet i'm not sure hot to reconcile a stated input sensitivity of "0.126mV for an output of 1V".

the kondo is quite fantastic, as is the M8. they are both incredibly quiet and musical.

earlier i wrote:
"the SL -- if it can handle the 3 ohm loading -- would seem to be fine."

i mistakenly assumed that other than the output & cartridge weight, the specs of the Etna and Atlas matched their SL counterparts. while frequency range, compliance, and channel separation are the same, the SL versions have a recommended load of 1-10 ohm vs the non-SLs at 5-15 ohm.

sounds like even the 1 ohm tap could be a possibility. hm. that's a little hard to believe given that (i thought) that tap is designed for a 0.05mV cartridge.

What about the Kondo cartridge? Seems like a hand and glove for the set up you have?

i've never heard one and don't know all that much about them. i know the AN/UK MC cartridges required a re-wiring of the tonearm. is that true for the kondo MCs as well?

do you have any experience at all with them?

something about the lyra cartridges always intrigued me, but maybe i'll be disappointed.

 

[analogguy]

What about the Kondo cartridge? Seems like a hand and glove for the set up you have?

man... you've got my wheels spinning.

seems like the kondo/AN-J current cartridge is the IO-M, which is a pretty normal design other than it's low output. the older IO-J had the more unusual 6-pin design (similar to the current AN-UK top MC designs).

i actually have an old Kondo-san-built amplifier, too, and AN-UK speakers.

i think the IO-M is a very different beast from the IO-J, and it's not a Kondo-san design, fwiw.

it's double the output of the top AN-UK cartridges. @ 0.125mV and with 73db gain (from the 1 ohm tap), it could work.

 

[myrman]

i know the AN/UK MC cartridges required a re-wiring of the tonearm. is that true for the kondo MCs as well?

do you have any experience at all with them?

Not true for AN carts. The only exception is the IO Limited which requires a 5th cable for power. I run an AN IO1/SME V on an Oracle Delphi. They are wonderful cartridges and well worth considering.

 

[mep]

I just purchased an Etna SL last week, but it's too early to report on yet.