Avantgarde Duo GT Review
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When Gregory describes in unflattering terms "previous generation Duos", he seems to be talking about ones built long ago that have separate mid and top horn enclosures, in fact probably pre-Omega. For the last 2 versions, the Duo has the top driver built into the main enclosure and the latest XD version has DSP to allow room correction for the bass. He claims that these earlier versions lack integration between the bass and the horn section. I think he's well out of touch because every other reviewer seems to think that problem was long since fixed by Avantgarde. The XD version has incredibly versatile settings to allow a seamless transfer, even by offering numerous different crossover technologies (Butterworth, Bessel, Linkwitz-Riley) and comprehensive frequency response adjustment possibilities.
Having said that, I find the XD software particularly difficult to use. The software doesn't offer an "auto-adjust" in the way Dirac, RoomPerfect, etc do. Perhaps the manual method is better in the hands of a professional, but it's beyond me to the extent I'm likely to make matters worse than leaving everything as Default – which is what I do with no concerns regarding sound quality!
The review makes no mention of this speaker's potential to accommodate a streamer module, making it a truly great choice for anyone using digital only and not wanting to clutter up their home with a pile of single-use boxes. However this review seems to be more of a preview, after which Gregory is hoping to get a pair of GTs into his own audition rooms, hopefully for a more in depth review. Hopefully Stereophile will be reviewing them soon too.
Reading the GT's Manual (downloadable from the AG site), it seems that its bass DSP is somewhat simpler than the complex XD software. Probably no bad thing. I'm looking forward to seeing and hearing it in the flesh. It's a lot of dosh, but could be very good value in its fully-fledged active version, including DAC, DSP on bass, amps and streamer module. If they get a good control app (hopefully they'll get a BluOS license) and it's Roon compatible, then perhaps excellent value.
Having said that, I find the XD software particularly difficult to use. The software doesn't offer an "auto-adjust" in the way Dirac, RoomPerfect, etc do. Perhaps the manual method is better in the hands of a professional, but it's beyond me to the extent I'm likely to make matters worse than leaving everything as Default – which is what I do with no concerns regarding sound quality!
The review makes no mention of this speaker's potential to accommodate a streamer module, making it a truly great choice for anyone using digital only and not wanting to clutter up their home with a pile of single-use boxes. However this review seems to be more of a preview, after which Gregory is hoping to get a pair of GTs into his own audition rooms, hopefully for a more in depth review. Hopefully Stereophile will be reviewing them soon too.
Reading the GT's Manual (downloadable from the AG site), it seems that its bass DSP is somewhat simpler than the complex XD software. Probably no bad thing. I'm looking forward to seeing and hearing it in the flesh. It's a lot of dosh, but could be very good value in its fully-fledged active version, including DAC, DSP on bass, amps and streamer module. If they get a good control app (hopefully they'll get a BluOS license) and it's Roon compatible, then perhaps excellent value.
The prices here are going up August 1. That’s all I’ve heard. I’m sure we will see reviews soon.
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BobK
Member
Hi Mike,
I'm intrigued by the DUO SD with the iTTRON option. When do you think you'll be receiving your pair? The iTRON frees up the floor space and cost of amps and amp stands, important for someone like me with limited space. Just curious...I read somewhere that these Avantgarde models can be positioned relatively close to the front wall. Is that true, and how close to you think the rear of the bass cabinet or edge of the horns could be?
Would the MSB Reference be a good match for this amp? Avantgarde didn't make an impression on me at the FLAX, but I heard a lot of great horns in Munich. Never seriously considered a horn speaker before that show. Thank you, sir!
We’ve decided to focus on Magico, MBL, Clarisys, Kharma, etc. Sorry, but I wasn’t “feeling it” with the new prices and active complexity. We won’t be bringing any in. Thinning the herd. I dropped a couple of others lately, including Viva (since we decided no more AG). Was a tough decision since I loved my XD’s, but I spoke with several folks on this forum and they weren’t feeling it either. None of our current XD owners were interested in upgrading either.
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a.wayne
Well-known member
Are you implying Gregory is not a respected reviewer ? Would love to see some actual measurements on them too ..
Regards
I'm sorry to hear this Mike, although I'm way outside your customer catchment area. It's a real shame that prices of these new AG systems are so much above the XD range, although with so much built into them, the prices may be justifoed.
To be slightly cynical, could another reason be that, as a dealer, you are unlikely to be able to sell costly electronics boxes and cables to customers who had bought these new all-in-one AG speakers? With amps, DACs, DSP, streamer and no need for cables, what more could you offer apart from to vinyl customers?
In fact I'll seriously be looking at the Duo GT when it becomes available as I'm less of a box collector than many audiophiles and just want wonderful music. If I could get this from a single purchase with no cables, equipment racks and other "clutter", I'd be more than happy!
Peter
Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
Wow Mike - You just got called you an unethical scammy business person. I bet if you sold NAD though you'd be a hero.
.Not at all, but the"review" the above link sends one to is not a review so much as a preview. Also as I noted in my earlier post, Roy appeared somewhat uninformed about the XD range of AG speakers that the new G3 ones are to replace.
I am still looking forward to a proper review from a respected reviewer, (HiFi Plus, HFN, Stereophile, etc) where the product is actually reviewed! Peter
I'm sorry to hear this Mike, although I'm way outside your customer catchment area. It's a real shame that prices of these new AG systems are so much above the XD range, although with so much built into them, the prices may be justifoed.
To be slightly cynical, could another reason be that, as a dealer, you are unlikely to be able to sell costly electronics boxes and cables to customers who had bought these new all-in-one AG speakers? With amps, DACs, DSP, streamer and no need for cables, what more could you offer apart from to vinyl customers?
In fact I'll seriously be looking at the Duo GT when it becomes available as I'm less of a box collector than many audiophiles and just want wonderful music. If I could get this from a single purchase with no cables, equipment racks and other "clutter", I'd be more than happy!
Peter
Peter, trust me when I say, we don’t need any one speaker brand in order to sell our world class electronics, cables, DAC’s, etc. The reality is, we had plenty of time since GT launch to evaluate the level of interest. It was near zero. We had time to talk to all of our existing clients (as the largest AG dealer in the country over the past 6 years, we had plenty). There was none, as I suspect, like you, most are very happy with their XD’s. And we had to look at available space for large horns in the store and making the financial investment.
I want to be clear, I’m a big big fan of Avantgarde. I loved my XD’s and could argue they were the best sound I ever had in my room - especially for dynamics.
But sometimes in business, you have to look at things and be honest with yourself. The interest just wasn’t there, from either my staff, me or our customers. If I’m going to make a financial investment, there has to be the energy behind it - at a minimum from my staff and me. There are people on this forum who can attest, I called them over the past 6 months. We had long talks about AG. These are AG owners or former AG owners. They weren’t feeling it either. XD was already such a big improvement over the previous generation and all our XD owners are content.
As you can imagine, we get approached daily about brand X or brand Y. Just think of the speakers, electronics and cables that are out on the market today. It’s not always easy, but I often have to tell the reps, “such and such is a great product, but we just aren’t interested at this time thank you.” I had someone email and call me the other day and do a hard sell on Raidho. I had to bite my tongue, but I was very polite and professional. Thanks but no thanks.
That being said, we are always on the lookout for exciting new opportunities and as I mentioned, we may revisit AG in the future. But right now, we have to focus on what we have. Allocate funds towards the products we have. Put marketing dollars and floor space for the brands we have. Hell, we haven’t even got our new Magico S3’s yet! They are shipping soon though. [emoji41]
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Who by Micheal? Certainly not by me! Nothing whatsoever unethical or scammy in Mike's business. In fact seemingly (though I've had no direct dealings with him for obvious geographical reasons), quite the reverse. Peter
Thank you. It’s funny how people always think there is some nefarious reason for a business decision, but often times, it is what it is. I look at business decisions made in the industry daily, and often shake my head. I’m not sure I’ll ever understand some of the decisions some others make, but experience tells me to not spend energies even trying.
Keep in mind, even though I have a staff, I’m still just one guy with active children and a hard working wife. With the store, used gear, the show, distribution, coaching kids hockey, playing hockey, supporting my daughter with her career (commercial airline pilot), etc., I work 7 days a week. You have to look at your personal bandwidth and evaluate where to put your energies. There has to be the interest and support from the team. If it isn’t there, be honest with yourself and move on. But never close doors, always be polite and professional and keep on trucking.
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I get it now: "worthwhile review from respected reviewer" = subjective reviews published in magazines that increasingly are coming under fire by folks that rely on objective data for promoting snake oil .
Thanks Mike - Absolutely understood that you need to represent brands that you can sell in numbers to justify the cost and effort in stocking, demo'ing, setting up and all the other activities that come with running a successful dealership.
As an XD user myself, I'm very happy to learn that your existing XD owners are content with their speakers and not hankering for a G3 upgrade. I admire the design brief that AG have set themselves and I think that more fully active speaker systems such as Dutch & Dutch, Kii and G3 AGs will become available and, though it may take a decade, the notion of these "all-in-one" speaker systems will be accepted and appreciated increasingly by the hi-fi community. Many though will always claim better sound from their mix-and-match rack full of proudly displayed boxes from a number of different brands, but there's a lot to be said for leaving the "matching" to the design team behind a single respected brand.
I’m rather surprised that AG seems to have dropped all of their previous offerings – their website is currently pretty off-putting with little worthwhile information on their new G3 models - and no reviews yet from reliable sources - and not a word about the old XD range. I wonder if anyone will actually get round to buying these new and costly beasts! What is sustaining AG’s cash flow I wonder? After doing all the work that has gone into developing these slightly off-beat products, ditching their bread-and-butter range seems a rash and possibly dangerous move. But on the other hand, AG has always thrived by offering something brilliant, but a little off-piste! Peter
As an XD user myself, I'm very happy to learn that your existing XD owners are content with their speakers and not hankering for a G3 upgrade. I admire the design brief that AG have set themselves and I think that more fully active speaker systems such as Dutch & Dutch, Kii and G3 AGs will become available and, though it may take a decade, the notion of these "all-in-one" speaker systems will be accepted and appreciated increasingly by the hi-fi community. Many though will always claim better sound from their mix-and-match rack full of proudly displayed boxes from a number of different brands, but there's a lot to be said for leaving the "matching" to the design team behind a single respected brand.
I’m rather surprised that AG seems to have dropped all of their previous offerings – their website is currently pretty off-putting with little worthwhile information on their new G3 models - and no reviews yet from reliable sources - and not a word about the old XD range. I wonder if anyone will actually get round to buying these new and costly beasts! What is sustaining AG’s cash flow I wonder? After doing all the work that has gone into developing these slightly off-beat products, ditching their bread-and-butter range seems a rash and possibly dangerous move. But on the other hand, AG has always thrived by offering something brilliant, but a little off-piste! Peter