Are they all just hit or miss? (vinyl reissues)

[MikeCh]

I think I may be done purchasing vinyl reissues?

Admittedly, I am a neophyte when it comes do these "new" albums. Suppose the thing that's always kept me away were the $25-$50 (or more) price tags for 180-200 gram discs. My recent purchase of a half dozen Reference Recordings LP's has left me and my wallet a little empty.

Though I REALLY enjoy the superior nuances paired with explosive and often times startling dynamics, the quality of the vinyl (or perhaps it's the pressing itself) seems lacking. With all the great music in the grooves seems to come flaws...and on some discs, MANY flaws. As a matter of practice, all LP's that get played here (new, old, used or otherwise) get a thorough cleaning on my VPI 17 using AIVS #15 and Ultra Pure Water rinse + ZeroStat / Furutech Destat + new MoFi sleeves before playing.

Due to the nature of these uncompressed recordings, I've found it requires a little more volume from the preamp in order to produce the low level material best. With the volume up for the low level stuff, when the big crescendos come in MAN IS IT THRILLING! But. With most of the vinyl reissues in my possession and during those low level passages I hear lots of crud like low frequency warps each revolution, some damn humming bird whirring sounds either between movements or in quiet spots mid-movement, mid range frequency sssshhhh'ing that can some times fade from one channel to the other or just constant hiss (like tape hiss) for 15-30 seconds at a time. Then suddenly, it all clears a couple minutes later during play and I'm treated to what sounds like pristine vinyl with black background for a few minutes. Ahhh, enjoyment. Then as soon as I'm enjoying the pristine sounds, here comes the crap again.

I know the recordings themselves from RR are exceptional. It's just a bummer that I may never get to hear "how" good they might be without buying 10 of the same LP to find the best pressing.

Am I alone here or do you guys find the same?

 

[mep]

Mike-Am I mistaken or didn't you post this exact same thread before?

 

[MikeCh]

Mike-Am I mistaken or didn't you post this exact same thread before?

LOL, I don't think so Mark.....but I guess it's possible. I only started listening to the Reissues since purchasing my first three RR's at RMAF so if I did post about this between then and now and I don't remember it I must be losing my mind.

 

[mep]

Sorry Mike, I thought I was having déjà vu. What is your table, arm, cartridge, and phono section?

 

[MikeCh]

VPI Classic 2 with Periphery Ring. Two JMW10.5 arm wands with Ortofon Cadenza Bronze on one and Cadenza Mono on the other. Phono Section is the Lehmann Black Cube SE II currently. Linestage is Aesthetix Calypso Signature with NOS tubes. Power amp is ARC 100.2 driving Canton Ergo Passiv loudspeakers. Cables are by some guy. I use a Fozgometer, the VPI alignment jig and Ortofon DS1 stylus gauge for setup.

p.s. Older labels/pressings from the 50's thru 80's don't generally have the same sonic issues as I notice with the reissues. Not saying the older pressings are all good either, as some of them are terrible as well. But, many of the older pressings have a lower noise floor without the flaws as noted above. So, I don't think its the gear that's the problem.

 

[puroagave]

Due to the nature of these uncompressed recordings, I've found it requires a little more volume from the preamp in order to produce the low level material best. With the volume up for the low level stuff, when the big crescendos come in MAN IS IT THRILLING! But. With most of the vinyl reissues in my possession and during those low level passages I hear lots of crud like low frequency warps each revolution, some damn humming bird whirring sounds either between movements or in quiet spots mid-movement, mid range frequency sssshhhh'ing that can some times fade from one channel to the other or just constant hiss (like tape hiss) for 15-30 seconds at a time. Then suddenly, it all clears a couple minutes later during play and I'm treated to what sounds like pristine vinyl with black background for a few minutes. Ahhh, enjoyment. Then as soon as I'm enjoying the pristine sounds, here comes the crap again.

Mike, I'm not experiencing any of the negatives you described. I have few LPs with minor pinch warps, those are put aside until I flatten them later. it goes without saying optimization of your cart/phono gain/system gain will impact back ground noise/grunge. ultrasonic RCM are also a league beyond wet vac types.

recently reissued Rock/pop albums are hit/miss as compared to original 1st press, I've slowed down buying those. LPs cut at 45 rpm are generally superior to orig 1st press. If you're a lover of jazz from the golden era, never has there been a better time to collect. the music matters blue notes as an example and worth every penny. Classic and now APO have done a great job reissuing RCA LSC LPs, in general I prefer them to the originals. Same goes for speakers corner the Merc Living Presence and DECCA reissues, i prefer these to the originals - mainly for the quieter surfaces.

 

[Bobolaclune]

I think I may be done purchasing vinyl reissues?

Admittedly, I am a neophyte when it comes do these "new" albums. Suppose the thing that's always kept me away were the $25-$50 (or more) price tags for 180-200 gram discs. My recent purchase of a half dozen Reference Recordings LP's has left me and my wallet a little empty.

Though I REALLY enjoy the superior nuances paired with explosive and often times startling dynamics, the quality of the vinyl (or perhaps it's the pressing itself) seems lacking. With all the great music in the grooves seems to come flaws...and on some discs, MANY flaws. As a matter of practice, all LP's that get played here (new, old, used or otherwise) get a thorough cleaning on my VPI 17 using AIVS #15 and Ultra Pure Water rinse + ZeroStat / Furutech Destat + new MoFi sleeves before playing.

Due to the nature of these uncompressed recordings, I've found it requires a little more volume from the preamp in order to produce the low level material best. With the volume up for the low level stuff, when the big crescendos come in MAN IS IT THRILLING! But. With most of the vinyl reissues in my possession and during those low level passages I hear lots of crud like low frequency warps each revolution, some damn humming bird whirring sounds either between movements or in quiet spots mid-movement, mid range frequency sssshhhh'ing that can some times fade from one channel to the other or just constant hiss (like tape hiss) for 15-30 seconds at a time. Then suddenly, it all clears a couple minutes later during play and I'm treated to what sounds like pristine vinyl with black background for a few minutes. Ahhh, enjoyment. Then as soon as I'm enjoying the pristine sounds, here comes the crap again.

I know the recordings themselves from RR are exceptional. It's just a bummer that I may never get to hear "how" good they might be without buying 10 of the same LP to find the best pressing.

Am I alone here or do you guys find the same?

Mike , I too have little experience of what you're describing . Conceivably, one explanation is Cart setup . I'm not sure the VPI setup jig is adequate to the task . There are just huge dividends / penalties to a less than stellar setup and at least as far as I am concerned, that involves something a little more precise like the Feickert protractor / the SMARTractor , a pressure gauge good to 2 or 3 decimal places & something like the Adjust+ software. I thought the Fozgometer was wildly off when I used it (and contradictory to boot on readings).

 

[mep]

Mike-Maybe you are using too many stat/destat steps along with your extra rinse cycle. I remember when I first bought my 16.5 RCM and was using the fluid that came from VPI, my records sounded worse after I cleaned them. I switched over to MF Super Wash cleaner and threw the VPI cleaner in the garbage. I got rid of the cleaning brush that comes with the machine as well and went for a better one. If you are noticing that your LPs sound worse after your OCD LP cleaning ritual than they did before, that could well be your problem. On the other hand, if they don't sound worse after cleaning, then the problem lies elsewhere.

So if we rule out what I said above, that only leads to two conclusions:

1. You have bad mojo and every record you buy sounds like crap.
2. You have some setup issues with your cartridge and/or arm.

 

[MikeCh]

Mark, it could be my OCD cleaning, I don't know. However, to expand on my listening issue:

1. It's not every re-issue LP that has the issue.
2. On the LP's that I notice the noise floor / whooshing sounds / etc. it's not in the same location on every LP (e.g., inner groove distortion vs. lead in vs. mid record, etc.) when it happens. On a given LP with issues it can be between tracks or mid track at start or middle or end of an LP.
3. On the LP's that its noticed, they could be 33RPM or 45RPM 180g or 200g pressings.
4. On the LP's that its noticed, one side might be flawless and the other side of the same disc has issues.

I would think if it had to do with cart setup/alignment that the issues I'm hearing would be more consistent either per location on an LP (say, the inner groove area) or with every LP but it's not.

I'm leaning toward the fact that I've just got bad luck with some of these discs. I'd love to notate what I'm hearing on a specific LP and send it to one of you guys to see if you hear what I hear.

Some of the LP's:

This one sounds great all the way thru both sides:

This one sounds utterly fantastic and HUGE except the occasional whooshing / whump-whump-whump / and hummingbird wing sounds:

Disc one of this one is fantastic both sides, Disc two side one has some sibilant areas at the start and about 3/4 thru and side two has some whooshing (if I recall correct):

This one is good both discs both sides I believe (been a few weeks since I listened to it):

Can't remember which disc it is with this one, but one of the sides (I believe disc two) is skewed to the right channel by a fairly large margin:

 

[mep]

Mike-The problem is obvious now; all of those LPs you listed above are cut from digital files and the digits are adding all of those weird sounds you are hearing after they have been converted to analog.

Seriously, these LPs are being pressed by QRP and it don't get any better than that baby! You need to play an LP before you monkey dick with it using your OCD cleaning process and see how it sounds. Take notes while you are listening to a new LP. The next time you play the LP, go through your OCD cleaning process and listen and take notes again and then compare your notes.

 

[MikeCh]

Mike-The problem is obvious now; all of those LPs you listed above are cut from digital files and the digits are adding all of those weird sounds you are hearing after they have been converted to analog.

Seriously, these LPs are being pressed by QRP and it don't get any better than that baby! You need to play an LP before you monkey dick with it using your OCD cleaning process and see how it sounds. Take notes while you are listening to a new LP. The next time you play the LP, go through your OCD cleaning process and listen and take notes again and then compare your notes.

Well damn. All of the reissues that I own have already gone thru my cleaning process. Maybe I'll buy a second one of them and listen before monkey dicking it.

In the interim I think I'll take one of the worst offenders, listen to it and note the locations/sounds that I'm hearing and then do a thorough rinse and single vac rotation (I only ever do two vac-rotations anyway) and listen again.

I'll do this test once I finish making my pot of green chile this afternoon.

 

[MikeCh]

Mike, I'm not experiencing any of the negatives you described. I have few LPs with minor pinch warps, those are put aside until I flatten them later. it goes without saying optimization of your cart/phono gain/system gain will impact back ground noise/grunge. ultrasonic RCM are also a league beyond wet vac types.

recently reissued Rock/pop albums are hit/miss as compared to original 1st press, I've slowed down buying those. LPs cut at 45 rpm are generally superior to orig 1st press. If you're a lover of jazz from the golden era, never has there been a better time to collect. the music matters blue notes as an example and worth every penny. Classic and now APO have done a great job reissuing RCA LSC LPs, in general I prefer them to the originals. Same goes for speakers corner the Merc Living Presence and DECCA reissues, i prefer these to the originals - mainly for the quieter surfaces.

Thanks for the response Rob.

An Ultrasonic RCM isn't in the cards for me right now, but will keep that in mind.

I'm not a big jazz fan so would have a hard time buying new LP's when I still have a slug of original issue Jazz from the 50's / 60's that I've never listened to here. I have noted that the 45RPM Analog Productions Elvis sounds great, so it's not "all" reissues that I find have a problem:

I don't know what's going on but if certain reissue LP's sound great without sibilance, whooshing or other uglies then I don't think my setup is suspect but rather the LP itself.

 

[MikeCh]

Mike , I too have little experience of what you're describing . Conceivably, one explanation is Cart setup . I'm not sure the VPI setup jig is adequate to the task . There are just huge dividends / penalties to a less than stellar setup and at least as far as I am concerned, that involves something a little more precise like the Feickert protractor / the SMARTractor , a pressure gauge good to 2 or 3 decimal places & something like the Adjust+ software. I thought the Fozgometer was wildly off when I used it (and contradictory to boot on readings).

Thanks for the advice Shodhan. I may look into a better, more accurate jig for the Classic. Been wanting to do that anyway. I've not had any issues with the Fozgometer being off or contradictory in it's measurements so not sure what you found "off" when you used it.

Regarding the alignment: As I mentioned to both Mark and Rob my linear-troubleshooting would lead me to believe that the issue isn't with the setup due to non-repeatable results...other than the suspect LP itself. I could see how setup / alignment could be to blame if all (or even several) LP's (new, old, whatever) always had issues at a certain tracking distance from the spindle, or if there was an underlying whump-whump with a majority of LP's, or if there were sibilance with a majority (or even one in twenty) of LP's played....but there isn't.

I have many many albums that have dead silent backgrounds with spectacular dynamics (including a couple of the reissues but the reissues are just way out numbered in my collection compared to older original pressings) without any of these anomalies.

Maybe it all boils down to my cleaning regimen. I'll do some checking over the weekend and report back if I find the culprit.

Thanks.

 

[MikeCh]

Question for you guys that have tons of reissues:

Are you saying that all (or even most) of your reissue's (180g/200g at 33 1/3 or 45 RPM) are without flaw generally speaking?

 

[tunes]

I'd say about 30% of my reissues tend to suck eggs in terms of pressing flaws warps etc. many of these are the smaller labels and cheaper pressings.

for the most part, rti/pallas have been excellent, qrp have often had random dished lps but as i use a clamp, they still play superbly.