octadyndude
New member
I don't know why and Lars couldn't explain it but a 4m PC sounded better than the 2m to my ears. FWIW it was the Diamond PC.
Ansuz Cables & Accessories
- Thread starter kiwi_1282001
- Start date
Hi George,
I think most agree that the longer power cords sound better than the shorter ones. For Ansuz and also other manufacturers. My eight foot Audience AU24SE power cord sounds better than the shorter one. I don't know the theory behind it but maybe it has some thing to do with a longer lead-in from where the wall power ends to clean up the wave form.
Best,
Ken
audio.bill
Active member
One of the electrical characteristics of a power cord that can filter powerline noise is its rated capacitance. Since a given cable's capacitance is rated for a specific length (like per foot or per meter) longer lengths will have a higher value of total capacitance. That is why many manufacturers will recommend a minimum length for their power cables, to ensure that the total cable's capacitance is high enough to be effective and provide the desired level of noise filtering.
FlexibleAudio
Member
This of course assumes you prefer the high pass-filtering of excess capacitance or the low-pass filtering of excess inductance. I personally prefer my cables to NOT alter the frequency response of the music and I believe Lars at Ansuz does also as he has stated many times the perfect cable is one with no reactance (i.e. zero inductance and capacitance). That said, many cable manufacturers do exactly what you report and people pay vast sums for a bit of bass attenuation or high frequency roll-off to their taste and this is served up through intentional inclusion of capacitance and induction which is always cable length determined.
So this, in turn, begs the questions as to why Lars also recommends a minimum length. IMO this has to do with the fact that all amplifiers will create resonance on power lines that is mechanically dampened by low gage (low resistance) power cables. The longer the power cable the better the damping. If the line in the wall is high gage (high resistance), the resonance reflects back impacting SQ in the amp.
Think of a jump rope with one child on each end; one representing the amp and the other the high resistance cable in the wall. If the first child (amp side) sends a sign wave down the rope and the other child holds the rope tight (wall outlet) the sign wave will bounce back to the sender. If the second child lets go of the rope instead of holding it tight the sign waive continues down the rope until it is dampened to zero.
This is why the wiring in the walls is so critical and should always be 10 gage or lower if possible. If it is, I believe a .5 meter power cord will work fine as long as you are not looking for the filtering addressed above. Of course as always, I could be completely full of beans about all of this.
IMO when Lars said the following (in post #191 above) the mechanical damping from the cabling is to what he was referring.
"I met Lars and asked the 4m question. He said he couldn't explain it but did a demo with a 2 and 4m power cable (Ansuz diamond of course). He thinks it's a mechanical factor that he doesn't know to prove it."
octadyndude
New member
Paul I heard Lars is going to be at Axpona this year in room 514 hosted by Next Level demoing D3's X3's with the new Aavik integrated along with Ansuz cables/accessories (not sure which ones but I'll try and find out).
FlexibleAudio
Member
Thanks. I did not know he is attending; I look forward to meeting him.
octadyndude
New member
Great people person and quite a character to boot
What day are you planning on going. I'd like to meet you.
What day are you planning on going. I'd like to meet you.
kiwi_1282001
Active member
- Thread Author
- #229
Hello Fabio,
My recommendation would simply be to avoid – if fiscally possible – 1.0m lengths of Ansuz power cable. The sound quality of longer cables is noticeably better and this observation appears consistent right across the product range up to an including Ansuz D as evidenced by a number of local audiophiles who initially purchased 1m Ansuz D power cords and later sold them to upgrade to longer lengths – observationally reporting better results.
audio.bill
Active member
Paul, with all due respect if I may I'd like to correct you on a few of your points above. First of all a high level of capacitance in a cable would filter or roll off high frequencies passing through the cable, which can be referred to as a low pass filter (not high pass.) And similarly inductance rolls off low frequency response which can be referred to as a high pass filter (not low pass.) Additionally what you state about some cables acting as subjective filters based upon their frequency roll off characteristics is true with many cable designs, but that would apply to cables in the audio signal path such as analog interconnects or speaker wire since their filtering would directly affect the signal. Filtering of noise in a power cable is very different, in that the cleaner power that a cable delivers to a component will generally result in better performance of that component. Of course this will also vary with different types of power supply designs. However filtering high frequency noise from the line can be effective in power cord design, as long as it doesn't slow the effective speed of its power delivery to the connected power supply. It will not however directly result in a rolled off high frequency response of the system.
[QUOTE = kiwi_1282001; 118.986] Ciao Fabio, La mia raccomandazione sarebbe semplicemente evitare - se fiscalmente possibile - lunghezze 1.0m di cavo di alimentazione Ansuz. La qualità del suono di cavi più lunghi è notevolmente migliore e questa osservazione sembra proprio coerente in tutta la gamma di prodotti fino ad un compresi Ansuz D come evidenziato da un certo numero di audiofili locali che inizialmente acquistato i cavi di alimentazione 1m Ansuz D e poi li vendevano per l'aggiornamento a lunghezze superiori -. osservativamente riportare i risultati migliori [/ QUOTE]
I understand thanks. If my money permit go on Ansuz C 1.5 mt as I have for the electronic ...
I understand thanks. If my money permit go on Ansuz C 1.5 mt as I have for the electronic ...
FlexibleAudio
Member
HMMMM......I thought it was the following; maybe you can help me see what I am missing. :doubtful:
Capacitance reactance is inversely proportional to frequency. The lower the frequency the higher the capacitance. As the signal gets lower it approaches an open circuit and passes nothing. As the frequency increases capacitance reactance approaches zero and the circuit passes everything. Hence a high pass filter. Inductance capacitance is the opposite. The identities are as follows:
Capacitive reactance
Inductive reactance
What am I missing?????
True, I was of course referring to system cables. Thanks for correcting me.
My point would have been made better regarding power cables by focussing on the trade offs of added overall impedance in exchange for filtering. I prefer starting with clean power from a transformer with big current reserves run through power cords with the lowest reactance possible versus trying to predict the impact of upfront filters on each individual system component. Your chasing your tail in many cases.
octadyndude
New member
Paul - I met with Tyler today and he thinks Lars will be demoing Ansuz Ceramic and Diamond cables at Axpona. But he (Tyler) isn't sure.
FlexibleAudio
Member
audio.bill,
More stuff explaining the way I learned it a long, long time ago. (This comes from link below.)
The High Pass Filter Circuit
In this circuit arrangement, the reactance of the capacitor is very high at low frequencies so the capacitor acts like an open circuit and blocks any input signals until the cut-off frequency point
High Pass Filter - Passive RC Filter Tutorial
More stuff explaining the way I learned it a long, long time ago. (This comes from link below.)
The High Pass Filter Circuit
(ƒc) is reached. Above this cut-off frequency point the reactance of the capacitor has reduced sufficiently as to now act more like a short circuit allowing all of the input signal to pass directly to the output as shown below in the High Pass Frequency Response Curve.
High Pass Filter - Passive RC Filter Tutorial
audio.bill
Active member
Paul - I think the contradiction is due to the differences in whether the reactive component (capacitance or inductance) is in series or parallel. Without any formulas just to keep things simple, let's take a simple first order crossover design used in a two way speaker. When you place a capacitor in series with the tweeter it acts as a high pass filter, allowing the highs to pass with attenuated frequencies below the crossover frequency at a 6dB per octave rolloff rate. Similarly an inductor in series with the woofer provides a low pass filter, allowing low bass frequencies to pass with higher frequencies above the crossover frequency being attenuated by 6dB per octave. However capacitance in a power cable is a distributed value based upon the cable's length (i.e. 20uF per meter), and that capacitance is in parallel with the load instead of being in series. In such an application the parallel capacitance has the effect of filtering higher frequencies where noise exists well above the desired line frequency of 50 or 60 Hz. So in this case the parallel capacitance acts as a low pass filter, the opposite of series capacitance's effect. I hope that these real world examples help to provide a clearer understanding of the filtering effects of reactive components, and whether they are implemented in series or parallel which will have opposite results. The supporting mathematics can be a bit confusing, since the reactive components of an AC impedance are represented with imaginary numbers. That's something that I'm afraid is beyond the scope of this forum.
audio.bill
Active member
You posted this while I was still providing my response above. The example that you show above is a high pass filter using a series capacitor, and it has the opposite effect of the parallel capacitance that exists in a power cord design which effectively acts as a low pass filter. So we're on the same page now, and we just needed to differentiate the effects of a reactive load whether it is in series or parallel. Glad that's settled without having to explain imaginary numbers!audio.bill,
More stuff explaining the way I learned it a long, long time ago. (This comes from link below.)
The High Pass Filter Circuit
In this circuit arrangement, the reactance of the capacitor is very high at low frequencies so the capacitor acts like an open circuit and blocks any input signals until the cut-off frequency point(ƒc) is reached. Above this cut-off frequency point the reactance of the capacitor has reduced sufficiently as to now act more like a short circuit allowing all of the input signal to pass directly to the output as shown below in the High Pass Frequency Response Curve.
High Pass Filter - Passive RC Filter Tutorial
FlexibleAudio
Member
Thanks Bill (I presume based on your AS handle),
I was not aware parallel capacitance acted in an opposite manner to serial. Neither did I know this occurrs in a power cord the way you explain. That said, I did have analog cables on the brain because power cord frequency in series is only 60hz anyway, duh....what a dumbo-head. Thanks for the help.
octadyndude
New member
Just confirmed that Tyler and Lars will have the Diamond cables - 2 mainsD8's - Sparkz TC - Darkz and the Ansuz rack.
kiwi_1282001
Active member
- Thread Author
- #240
I don't believe the supplier offers 0.5m Diamond power cords. May be Frits or Lars can chime in to clarify?
I'd take a 1m Diamond PC over a 2m Ceramic one.