Allocation of Dollars for Stereo Equipment

nicoff

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I asked ChatGPT what should be the cost allocation for a digital system (streaming only) and a digital and analog system. Here are the responses:

Digital Set Up (Streaming)

Question:
I want to set up a stereo system to stream music from the internet. I have a fixed amount of money to spend. How should I allocate the money between Speakers, Room, Electronic devices (amplifier, preamplifier, DAC), and cables?"


ChatGPT Answer:
To allocate your budget effectively for a stereo system, it's essential to balance spending across different components to maximize performance. Here’s a general guideline for allocating your budget among speakers, room treatment, electronics, and cables:

### 1. **Speakers (40-50%)**
- **Priority:** Speakers are the most critical component of a stereo system and have the most significant impact on sound quality.
- **Reason:** The right speakers can bring out the best in the rest of your system. Make sure to choose speakers that suit your room size and listening preferences (e.g., bookshelf vs. floor-standing).

### 2. **Room Treatment (15-20%)**
- **Priority:** The room's acoustics are often overlooked but can dramatically affect sound quality.
- **Reason:** Proper room treatment can reduce unwanted reflections, standing waves, and bass problems. Invest in absorbers, diffusers, and bass traps as needed based on your room's characteristics. If you cannot make physical changes, consider digital room correction (e.g., DIRAC, REW).

### 3. **Electronics (25-30%)**
- **Components:** This includes the amplifier, preamplifier, DAC, and potentially a streamer.
- **Priority:** The amplifier and DAC should be well-matched to your speakers, both in terms of power and sonic character.
- **Reason:** You need a solid and clean power supply to drive your speakers effectively. For streaming, a good-quality DAC can make a significant difference in sound quality.

### 4. **Cables & Accessories (5-10%)**
- **Priority:** Invest in good-quality speaker cables, interconnects, and power cables.
- **Reason:** While cables can be a contentious topic, ensuring they are well-made and provide secure connections without spending excessively is sensible. The goal is to avoid weak links in the signal chain, not to overspend on exotic materials.

### Example Budget Allocation
If you have a $10,000 budget, a possible allocation could be:

- **Speakers:** $4,000 - $5,000
- **Room Treatment:** $1,500 - $2,000
- **Electronics:** $2,500 - $3,000
- **Cables & Accessories:** $500 - $1,000

### Additional Tips
1. **Auditioning:** Wherever possible, audition speakers and electronics before buying. Synergy between components is crucial, and your ears are the ultimate judge.
2. **Used Market:** Consider high-quality used gear, especially for electronics and speakers. This can stretch your budget significantly.
3. **Room Setup:** Speaker placement and listening position adjustments can sometimes make a more noticeable improvement than upgrading equipment.

This approach ensures that your system is balanced and optimized for your specific listening environment.


Question:
"If I add analog equipment (turntable), how does the allocation change?"

ChatGPT Answer:
Adding a turntable introduces additional components and considerations, so the allocation would need to be adjusted to accommodate the turntable, a suitable phono preamp (if not included in your amplifier), and possibly accessories like a record cleaning system. Here’s how you can adjust the budget:

### Revised Budget Allocation
1. **Speakers (35-40%)**
- **Reason:** While still a high priority, a slight reduction allows room for the turntable investment without compromising quality too much.

2. **Room Treatment (15-20%)**
- **Reason:** This remains unchanged because good acoustics will benefit both digital and analog playback.

3. **Electronics (25-30%)**
- **Components:** Amplifier, DAC, streaming device, and phono preamp (if needed).
- **Reason:** You’ll still need high-quality amplification, and adding a phono preamp will increase the budget slightly here.

4. **Turntable & Accessories (15-20%)**
- **Turntable:** A good quality turntable with a well-matched cartridge.
- **Phono Preamp:** If your amplifier doesn’t include a phono stage, you’ll need a standalone phono preamp.
- **Accessories:** Record cleaning system, vibration isolation (e.g., turntable mats, isolation platforms), and a decent record collection.

5. **Cables & Accessories (5-7%)**
- **Reason:** Ensure good connections for both analog and digital sources, but don’t overinvest here.

### Example Revised Allocation for $10,000 Budget
- **Speakers:** $3,500 - $4,000
- **Room Treatment:** $1,500 - $2,000
- **Electronics (Digital & Analog):** $2,000 - $2,500 (amplifier, DAC, streamer, phono preamp if needed)
- **Turntable & Accessories:** $1,500 - $2,000 (turntable, cartridge, phono preamp, cleaning kit)
- **Cables & Accessories:** $500 - $700

### Additional Considerations
1. **Turntable Matching:** The turntable should be well-matched with the cartridge and phono preamp to avoid bottlenecks. A balanced analog chain is crucial.
2. **Isolation and Stability:** Turntables are sensitive to vibrations, so investing in proper isolation (e.g., turntable stands or isolation feet) is important.
3. **Record Maintenance:** Clean records are essential for good sound quality and longevity of the stylus. Consider a record cleaning machine or kit.

This revised allocation ensures that your analog and digital components are well-balanced, and you can enjoy both streaming and vinyl playback at high quality.



My current digital system looks like this:
89% speakers/Room
10% electronics
1% Cables

If I include my analog gear, the allocation changes to this:
80% speakers/Room
19% electronics
1% Cables

One parameter that it is hard to quantify is Room Tratments because nowadays it is relatively inexpensive to add digital room correction which can change the sound very dramatically for very little money.

How does your set up compare with the allocations suggested by ChatGPT?
 
There is so many untrue facts on the internet. I have to disagree with ChatGPT. Looks like it is partly trained by fora, which don't have any clue about what impacts sound most. But I don't like to come into that discussion again:

But one remark that proves ChatGPT doesn't know anything about audio: You need a solid and clean power supply to drive your speakers effectively. Only active speakers are powered, passive speakers are directly hooked on the amp, and for active speakers you don't need an amp and dac anymore as mentioned on the ChatGPT shopping list.
 
The PSU comment is correct , you are in fact listening to your psu design and how its affected by load .

I would allocate as much as 70% on speakers , if you plan on running an Analog TT you will need speakers with good Linear excursion on the woofers and more power than if running straight digital ..

Regards
 
There is no power supply input on a passive speaker. It gets its energy from an amp, which will get its power by a cable leading to a socket.

But my opinion about how to divide 10k of dollars, look first what speakers you need for a room. If you have a small room, book shelves are the better choice and more money is left for electronics. Talking about electronics, an audiophilic switch is missing, 2500-3000k for electronics is’t much for a dac, a preamp an amp and a streamer and power supplies. I am afraid that for that you couldn’t buy much more then Denon quality, which isn’t high end.
 
There is no power supply input on a passive speaker. It gets its energy from an amp, which will get its power by a cable leading to a socket.

But my opinion about how to divide 10k of dollars, look first what speakers you need for a room. If you have a small room, book shelves are the better choice and more money is left for electronics. Talking about electronics, an audiophilic switch is missing, 2500-3000k for electronics is’t much for a dac, a preamp an amp and a streamer and power supplies. I am afraid that for that you couldn’t buy much more then Denon quality, which isn’t high end.
So what is your equipment allocation?
 
By these my allocation proposal: I did choose brands in which you get more then you would expect on the price. For the amps, you need to build it yourself, which isn't very difficult. Alternative is the NAD C399, which is ready to play, but uses the older ncore modules instead of nilai.

Speakers is a matter of personal taste, and you should listen yourself. I chose for Q-acoustics, because you get a lot of bang for buck.

Source: Eversolo DMP a8 2k (20%)
DAC: Denafrips Ares 15th 1,2k (12%)
Preamp: hypex 1,5k (15%)
amp: hypex nilai stereo kit 250W 1,5k (15%)
speakers: Q-acoustics Concept 50 2,6k (26%)
Switch: Silent Angel Bonn 0,4k (4%)
Cables: Supra: 5x powercable, 2x speakercable, 1x USB 2.0 cable, 1x UTP cable 621(5,38%)
Power block: Supra MD-06 150 (1,5%)

Makes a nice almost exactly 10k costing streaming setup.

If you would like to add an additional turntable, or cd player: look at the second hand market. For turntables there are amazing vintage ones from the brands Thorens or Dual. cd players is even easier, because hardly no one uses these anymore and it is easy to pick a nice Marantz for a budget on the vintage market.
 
There is no power supply input on a passive speaker. It gets its energy from an amp, which will get its power by a cable leading to a socket.

But my opinion about how to divide 10k of dollars, look first what speakers you need for a room. If you have a small room, book shelves are the better choice and more money is left for electronics. Talking about electronics, an audiophilic switch is missing, 2500-3000k for electronics is’t much for a dac, a preamp an amp and a streamer and power supplies. I am afraid that for that you couldn’t buy much more then Denon quality, which isn’t high end.
The amp is suppled by a power supply , you are hearing the quality or lack off when driving said speaker load, Same if it was active, active is taking your amp and placing it inside the speakers its no different , all require a PSU /amp to function the location doesn't eliminate the physics, changes the physical ...
 
The Q is 3K and for 4K Revel has a model that maybe a good choice also ..

I would select used everything for speakers and amps and get a real hiend system than go with class D and the like ..
 
There is so many untrue facts on the internet. I have to disagree with ChatGPT. Looks like it is partly trained by fora, which don't have any clue about what impacts sound most. But I don't like to come into that discussion again:

But one remark that proves ChatGPT doesn't know anything about audio: You need a solid and clean power supply to drive your speakers effectively. Only active speakers are powered, passive speakers are directly hooked on the amp, and for active speakers you don't need an amp and dac anymore as mentioned on the ChatGPT shopping list.

I asked ChatGPT: Can a fact be untrue?

Reply:
A fact, by definition, is something that is objectively true and can be verified through evidence. If a statement is called a "fact" but turns out to be incorrect, then it wasn't truly a fact in the first place—it was a mistaken belief or a false statement.

In other words, if something is labeled as a fact but is later proven untrue, it means it was never a fact to begin with, just an erroneous claim.

I think that ChatGPT knows a lot more than you think... :)
 
The Q is 3K and for 4K Revel has a model that maybe a good choice also ..

I would select used everything for speakers and amps and get a real hiend system than go with class D and the like ..
The question was to stay within 10k dollar. How would you stay within the budget with all high end devices?

If you spend 4k on speakers, then something else need to be downgraded
 
I asked ChatGPT: Can a fact be untrue?

Reply:
A fact, by definition, is something that is objectively true and can be verified through evidence. If a statement is called a "fact" but turns out to be incorrect, then it wasn't truly a fact in the first place—it was a mistaken belief or a false statement.

In other words, if something is labeled as a fact but is later proven untrue, it means it was never a fact to begin with, just an erroneous claim.

I think that ChatGPT knows a lot more than you think... :)
Can you ask it about Alternative Truths?
 
I asked ChatGPT: Can a fact be untrue?

Reply:
A fact, by definition, is something that is objectively true and can be verified through evidence. If a statement is called a "fact" but turns out to be incorrect, then it wasn't truly a fact in the first place—it was a mistaken belief or a false statement.

In other words, if something is labeled as a fact but is later proven untrue, it means it was never a fact to begin with, just an erroneous claim.

I think that ChatGPT knows a lot more than you think... :)
Talking about Artificial Intelligence and ChatGPT, I have trust in the future and have shares in it, Microsoft included. 😎
 
Can you ask it about Alternative Truths?
Yes. See below.

"Alternative truth" is a term often used to describe a situation where an individual or group presents information or a narrative that contradicts established facts or widely accepted truths. It's closely related to the concept of "alternative facts," which was popularized in political discourse to justify or explain a version of events that conflicts with objective reality.

The term is often associated with misleading or deceptive practices, where the intent is to shape public perception by promoting a particular viewpoint or agenda, regardless of its factual accuracy. This can be harmful because it undermines trust in reliable sources of information and can contribute to the spread of misinformation or confusion.

In essence, an "alternative truth" suggests a subjective interpretation of reality that may not align with verifiable facts, often used to justify or defend a particular stance or belief."
 
The question was to stay within 10k dollar. How would you stay within the budget with all high end devices?

If you spend 4k on speakers, then something else need to be downgraded
You can pick up a used Krell for 2K , a good toppings Dac with PSU for 1.5K , threshold fet 9e/phono 2K, TD125 with SME arm 2K , maggies 3.6/3.7 , 2K ..

Or you can do a CDT instead of the Thorens .

If 4K on a new Loudspeakers , do the krell/Threshold /DAC /streamer..


Regards
 
One question....is this the same ChatGPT that a couple of months ago made the news for saying George Washington was African-American, pictures of women as NHL players and pictures of an Asian woman as the Pope?

It's a serious question as I believe there are various competing AI's.
 
How long before we have a member that is actually A.I.
Imaging the arguments it will create. :oops:

I'm going to need a larger popcorn machine.
 
How long before we have a member that is actually A.I.
Imaging the arguments it will create. :oops:

I'm going to need a larger popcorn machine.
LOL. - we should get competing AI's to argue amongst each other!
 
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You can pick up a used Krell for 2K , a good toppings Dac with PSU for 1.5K , threshold fet 9e/phono 2K, TD125 with SME arm 2K , maggies 3.6/3.7 , 2K ..

Or you can do a CDT instead of the Thorens .

If 4K on a new Loudspeakers , do the krell/Threshold /DAC /streamer..


Regards
About used products: I also did buy a lot of nice second hand things. Sometimes it broke within a year of playing, not because of the seller, but had some bad luck and had some items at the end of lifetime.

It isn’t quite fair to add these second hand ones in a set of 10k, because the risk of breaking within a short period is high.

Why I did mention vintage turntables and cd players? It is because the quality difference from 20-30 years ago was so much better for these sources that it is worth the gamble. There are some nice examples which will nowadays not be produced anymore.

I came with a shopping list in which you can stream music for 10k of dollars. Yes, it has compromises, but that is needed to stay within budget. Hope there will be posted some more shopping lists, with new items, so that we can really discuss what is best for 10k of dollars.
 
Understand , IME , Never really had a highend type product fail on me, caps age so if suspicious always best to service but mostly old amps are sometimes out of bias, after bias and cleaning they are good to go ..!

After proper service to spec you would have to spend a fortune to better ..!
 
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