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Adrian - too much A-D-A-D-A going on. The magic was lost in translation.


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I saw something similar at the NYC show this past weekend. A before and after graph of bass response in the room. I think it was in the Martin Logan room, but maybe it was somewhere else. They took 8 measurements around the room then digitally applied correction. The after graph was almost flat and the before was all over the place.

The bass did indeed sound tight and accurate without the usual bloat at one frequency or another.
 
I'm not sure how DSP can fix bass response all over the room, I was under the impression that it could only be corrected for 1 or 2 locations without causing more issues elsewhere.
With that said I use DSP also, in J. River before any D/A conversion takes place. That employed with multiple subs seems to work best in my room for the time being.
The plan is to next give dipole bass supplimented by a large sealed sub(below 40) a try.
 
One of the best DSP products I've used is the Lyngdorf RP-1, now discontinued, but available in a modified version as the McIntosh MEN220. I like it very much because it really works well to judiciously smoothen out the major room issues (you still have to treat highly reflective rooms as DSP won't solve that). Also, because it is automated, you don't need to be an acoustician. According to the designers, the difference between the Lyngdorf/McIntosh system and others is that the system is able to discriminate between the response of the speaker versus the room. I'm not sure how it does that. Perhaps it's due to the multiple random microphone placements in the room. By doing so, the processor reads the response of the room and discriminates between the speakers' response vs the room's response. Apparently, this allows the processor to leave the character of the speaker alone while dealing with the room.

Does it work? Again I can only speak for myself. Yes, it works very well. We once exhibited at the Montreal audio show. The hotel room was terrible, causing huge (+15-25 dB!!) spikes between 50-150 Hz. Even the RP-1 shut down the first few times when we were trying to read the room, until we lowered the initial set up level (it wasn't high to begin with!). The result was amazing. Switching the processor in made everything clearer, much more linear. Switched out, the bass was more impressive, much more powerful, but definitely not real. More fun? Perhaps. More dynamic? Yes, depending on the cut you played. The bass issues of the room seemed to be mostly high Q so boominess was not as big an issue, but it was still there.

Here's a link to the designer talking about the Lyngdorf RP-1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYMAVbw6tLc
 
Face said:
I'm not sure how DSP can fix bass response all over the room, I was under the impression that it could only be corrected for 1 or 2 locations without causing more issues elsewhere.
With that said I use DSP also, in J. River before any D/A conversion takes place. That employed with multiple subs seems to work best in my room for the time being.
The plan is to next give dipole bass supplimented by a large sealed sub(below 40) a try.
Click to expand...

I think you are correct, DSP needs to work together with passive treatments, though in my experience and knowledge, passive bass treatment can only really be effective with Helmholtz Resonators tuned to the particular frequency that is most annoying. Employing multiple subs (3 or more) in various parts of the room will help smooth out the bass response as well, assuming that you don't create even more issues! haha.

However, my experience with the Room Perfect is very positive overall. In the sweet spot (Focus setting), bass is definitely more accurate virtually every time, and you can also set the processor up to do a Global response so it widens the sweet spot; the sound seems better for more people.
 
Adrian Low said:
I think you are correct, DSP needs to work together with passive treatments, though in my experience and knowledge, passive bass treatment can only really be effective with Helmholtz Resonators tuned to the particular frequency that is most annoying. Employing multiple subs (3 or more) in various parts of the room will help smooth out the bass response as well, assuming that you don't create even more issues! haha.

However, my experience with the Room Perfect is very positive overall. In the sweet spot (Focus setting), bass is definitely more accurate virtually every time, and you can also set the processor up to do a Global response so it widens the sweet spot; the sound seems better for more people.
Click to expand...
I've also tried Helmholtz Resonators, multiples are still needed to fix the problem IME.

Here's an interesting paper on multiple subs: http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompany/Innovation/Documents/White Papers/multsubs.pdf
 
Face said:
I've also tried Helmholtz Resonators, multiples are still needed to fix the problem IME.

Here's an interesting paper on multiple subs: http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompany/Innovation/Documents/White Papers/multsubs.pdf
Click to expand...

Great article. Saw that. Thanks!
Was first thinking about multiple subs around 2005/6. We were doing a big home theatre installation. Just out of curiosity we measured the room with one sub, then another, until we had 4. We expected the bass to be more powerful but we had no clue the bass would actually smoothen out! Then shortly after, we became a Sonus Faber dealer, and one of the owners came by to train us. He also mentioned the benefits of multiple subs. I believe that same year I went to CEDIA and Velodyne showed graphical evidence of multiple subs. I think that might be the first time I began to fully realize that it could be a good option to bass issues.

You are right re multiple resonators needed, especially if it is a serious issue, with many peaks at different frequencies. Unfortunately when it comes to bass, there isn't a magic bullet.

I have a client who LOVES bass. Absolutely LOVES it. He is fortunate that both his rooms do not suffer from boominess. When he plays his electronic dance music, your chest cavitates, and you literally feel every deep note.
 
Other than DSP, that we audiophiles all hate. The only way to fix bass problems is to build another room. I agree Mike, tube traps are a waste of money if you think they will cure big bass issues. If you are ok with subs (obviously yes if its home theatre) Adrian is absolutely correct, multiple subs is the answer.
 
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