Thread: New Series 200

The new Series 200!

First released was the headphone amplifier, which also included their DAC with DSD1024 capability!
ha_200_slider_ha_200-1.jpgha_200_slider_ha_200_rueck_2.jpg

The rest of the series starts with the DAC/Pre-amp, which handles DSD up to DSD1024 through their beloved two path system separating PCM and DSD. It has both XLR and RCA outputs and a single Analog input. It really appears to mainly be a DAC with minimal pre-amp function:
dac_200_slider_dac_200_frontal-scaled.jpgdac_200_slider_dac_200_back-scaled-scaled.jpg

The new amplifier can power two sets of speakers, and for a change in topology T+A is using a Class D amplifier, the Purifi amplifier:
a_200_slider_a_200_frontal-scaled.jpga_200_slider_a_200_back-scaled-scaled.jpg

The final piece is their new form of their multi-format player:
mp_200_slider_mp_200_frontal-scaled.jpgmp_200_slider_mp_200_back-scaled.jpg

Looks like a fantastic series. I fear that the price may have gone up to an unreachable level, but we will see.

MSRP: $8900




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That was the headphone amp, right. Any word on the other pieces? The DAC, the amp?

The headphone amp was priced pretty high I thought when it was first released, but then again it does include the high level DSD1024 DAC.... so.... I always thought it was silly to offer it only with the DAC. No idea how popular it has been since it was released.

dac is reportedly $6,900 ...very nice piece of gear but not enough of a difference to even consider upgrading from the dac8 dsd. although, the VU meters are way cool.

Originally Posted by aKnyght

dac is reportedly $6,900 ...very nice piece of gear but not enough of a difference to even consider upgrading from the dac8 dsd. althought, the VU meters are way cool.

T+A HA 200 | House of Stereo | Synergistic | T+A


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Originally Posted by Mike

T+A HA 200 | House of Stereo | Synergistic | T+A


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right, that's the HP amp. here is the DAC:

T+A DAC 200 | House of Stereo | Synergistic | T+A

btw: i see suncoast no longer carries t+a ...what gives?

Originally Posted by Mike

T+A HA 200 | House of Stereo | Synergistic | T+A

Yup, headphone amp came first, but seemed over the top to me...

Also, in my view, a really really silly design decision... they included their fantastic DAC.... BUT... it cannot be used as a DAC in your main systems... no outputs other than headphones.... so a great piece for someone who is only interested in headphones, but cannot be used as your system DAC also... so $8900 because inclusive of the DAC is almost nullified.

I am most wondering about the amplifier because I also believe there is not enough difference to consider replacing the DAC 8 DSD.

Only speculating... but I would guess not enough sales to justify the line and it looks like a large T+A dealer is fairly close to their location... only guessing, so I could very much be incorrect .

Originally Posted by aKnyght

btw: i see suncoast no longer carries t+a ...what gives?

They went nuts with pricing quarter after quarter after quarter. I even met with the owner in Germany and told him all this. I went through a few products and where they needed to be price wise based on competition. I explained that these repeated quarterly price increase made their products unobtainable.

You can’t sell a $25,000 integrated in a sea of $5-15k ones. When that same Integrated was $16k, you could perhaps get someone there. But not at $25k when you’re talking separates for that money. The Boulder 866 is $14,950 with DAC for perspective. Boulder!

This piece, IMO, should be $4,995 based on market comps or less. It’s class D for Christ sake.


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Originally Posted by Randy Myers

Only speculating... but I would guess not enough sales to justify the line and it looks like a large T+A dealer is fairly close to their location... only guessing, so I could very much be incorrect .

Wrong. Price increase nuttiness. See above.

Has nothing to do with the quality of the product or sonics. Those are excellent.

I just wish they left pricing alone. I explained this to them a million times.
It was high, but not crazy. Then it went crazy.

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Ahhh... that sound reasonable... its too bad, the product itself is fantastic, but if they are pricing themselves out of the market then it will hurt them in the long haul ....

I have yet to see the price on the amplifier. The new DAC is probably realistic in its price range of $6900... however the pre-amp functions are almost useless and they could have left them out and probably saved some money. Certainly not enough to justify a step up from the DAC 8 DSD. The DAC 8 DSD actually has a pretty darn good pre-amp function included for an all digital system. The single analog input, and putting the large volume control on the front, adding meters, are all cool, but certainly unnecessary and certainly not enough to entice current T+A DAC owners.

The amplifier's main competition, in my view, although not always a brand that gets compared, would be the NAD. The NAD Purifi straight amp is $1999... so how much is the T+A? Double that I could see, sort of, but certainly pushing it, especially considering that NAD give a 5 year warranty... if they start going in the $6k + range I think they are pricing themselves out of the market .

totally agree. non-competitive pricing on absolute and relative terms... it's not that they don't make great gear but for like pricing one can get similar gear from any one of the very top swiss names for crying out loud.

I can't find any pricing information for the A200 amp, although I have no immediate intention to switch from the NAD's Mater Series. Looking at the new T&A 200 range, my immediate impression is too many boxes and too much untidiness in the front panels.

The Purifi-based A200 amp is just a power amp so needs the DAC200 DAC/preamp $6900), but does this unit include a streamer? No, seems to be the answer, so a third box is needed to match the versatility of the M33 - and a bundle of those things on my Hate List - cables. And still no MM/MC input, or headphone out, or DSP. OK, settled - keep the M33 until someone comes up with a single box of even higher sound quality than the NAD M33. A long wait I suspect! Peter

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

Ahhh... that sound reasonable... its too bad, the product itself is fantastic, but if they are pricing themselves out of the market then it will hurt them in the long haul ....

I have yet to see the price on the amplifier. The new DAC is probably realistic in its price range of $6900... however the pre-amp functions are almost useless and they could have left them out and probably saved some money. Certainly not enough to justify a step up from the DAC 8 DSD. The DAC 8 DSD actually has a pretty darn good pre-amp function included for an all digital system. The single analog input, and putting the large volume control on the front, adding meters, are all cool, but certainly unnecessary and certainly not enough to entice current T+A DAC owners.

The amplifier's main competition, in my view, although not always a brand that gets compared, would be the NAD. The NAD Purifi straight amp is $1999... so how much is the T+A? Double that I could see, sort of, but certainly pushing it, especially considering that NAD give a 5 year warranty... if they start going in the $6k + range I think they are pricing themselves out of the market .

I posted a link above. It’s $8995.

You’re starting to think how I was thinking. It’s ok to make something a little more expensive and offer the name/build/styling/whatever. That’s $16k. But when you’re $25k and the rest of your competitors are $10-15k cheaper and sound just as bloody good, you sort of have to scratch your head.

If this piece is $8995 and competition is $3-5k, it’s again, a head scratcher.

Anyway, like I said, I like the look, sound and build quality, I just wish the prices stayed a little more competitive, like where they were when I first picked up the line. Great company. Great folks. I hope they sell a lot.


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Originally Posted by Mike

I posted a link above. It’s $8995.

You’re starting to think how I was thinking. It’s ok to make something a little more expensive and offer the name/build/styling/whatever. That’s $16k. But when you’re $25k and the rest of your competitors are $10-15k cheaper and sound just as bloody good, you sort of have to scratch your head.

If this piece is $8995 and competition is $3-5k, it’s again, a head scratcher.

Anyway, like I said, I like the look, sound and build quality, I just wish the prices stayed a little more competitive, like where they were when I first picked up the line. Great company. Great folks. I hope they sell a lot.

I 100% agree... it boggles my mind when companies price themselves out of the market, especially when they are barely starting to make a name for themselves in this market.

The link and price you posted is for the headphone amp, not the separate power amp that they are also doing in the Series 200. That model is the A 200 and we have yet to determine what the price is. The headphone amp is actually not a Purifi amplifier (I have never seen a headphone amp using the Purifi ):

Amplifier
Double Mono "State of the Art“ discrete HV Amp technology
Pure Class A power stage

It is way over the top as a stand alone headphone amplifier in my view though.

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

I 100% agree... it boggles my mind when companies price themselves out of the market, especially when they are barely starting to make a name for themselves in this market.

The link and price you posted is for the headphone amp, not the separate power amp that they are also doing in the Series 200. That model is the A 200 and we have yet to determine what the price is. The headphone amp is actually not a Purifi amplifier (I have never seen a headphone amp using the Purifi ):

Amplifier
Double Mono "State of the Art“ discrete HV Amp technology
Pure Class A power stage

It is way over the top as a stand alone headphone amplifier in my view though.

Got it. Thanks for clarifying.


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It is not hard to get confused when looking at some of the T+A gear on their site. There are over laps of functions, even within the same series. It appears that their approach is for someone to buy the entire series, overlaps and all . Too bad, because as you say;

Originally Posted by Mike

Anyway, like I said, I like the look, sound and build quality, I just wish the prices stayed a little more competitive, like where they were when I first picked up the line. Great company. Great folks. I hope they sell a lot.

I was excited when I first discovered the new Series 200. But looking at is closer I really think they are missing the mark on so many different levels .

Originally Posted by Mike

They went nuts with pricing quarter after quarter after quarter. I even met with the owner in Germany and told him all this. I went through a few products and where they needed to be price wise based on competition. I explained that these repeated quarterly price increase made their products unobtainable.

You can’t sell a $25,000 integrated in a sea of $5-15k ones. When that same Integrated was $16k, you could perhaps get someone there. But not at $25k when you’re talking separates for that money. The Boulder 866 is $14,950 with DAC for perspective. Boulder!

This piece, IMO, should be $4,995 based on market comps or less. It’s class D for Christ sake.


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Went nuts with pricing is a understatement. They went freaking out of orbit with their pricing.

The A 200 amplifier will be priced near the AMP 8. Should be in mid-$4000's.

Yea, NAD is definitely not just slapping the Purifier module in and saying there you go. They are designing a whole amplifier around it.

Originally Posted by Devg

If you are looking for a Purifi based Amp, there is absolutely no point paying premium price, specially > $5000. They ALL use exactly the same Amp module and SMPS power supply. Some uses a different input section with different discrete opamps and that makes a significant difference in how it sounds.

Some excellent and cheaper alternatives:

Apollon Purifi 1ET400A Monoblock Amplifier | Hypex Based Class D Digital Handbuilt Amplifiers Only Using Highest Quality Material
VTV AMPLIFIER Stereo Purifi Audio 1ET400A Amplifier | VTV Amplifier

As Audio Bill points out, not all Purifi modules are identical - certainly not the version used in the NAD. The brands you mention buy basic modules off the shelf and add cases, input sockets and selectors, etc to sell them at the low price they do. NAD does not buy the OEM modules, but build under licence with Purifi-approved tuning to maximise performance. It could be (though I don't know) they use superior PCBs, etc to achieve this. The NAD C298 power amp is £1700 list price and the T&A should be similarly priced, though I doubt they'll match the value that NAD offers. If you value used prices, go for a well respected brand such as NAD. For the $5000 you mention, you could get the incredible value NAD M33.

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

The A 200 amplifier will be priced near the AMP 8. Should be in mid-$4000's.

Yea, NAD is definitely not just slapping the Purifier module in and saying there you go. They are designing a whole amplifier around it.

I was told around $4900. Save up Randy

I found the price listed in Euro's. I have not seen is in USD yet. But doing a quick conversion it equaled out to $4450 or something like that. That is the only basis for my price assumption .

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

I found the price listed in Euro's. I have not seen is in USD yet. But doing a quick conversion it equaled out to $4450 or something like that. That is the only basis for my price assumption .

Well I'm going on what my dealer told me, $4900 for the amp, and $6900 for the DAC. OF course that is 'dealer'

Yea, we are all speculating until they actually officially release the new line. Honestly, I would think the T+A would be absolute top notch, but I also would believe that they and NAD are the two doing it "better" so to speak. However the real question, and I think I have already answered this with my choice of purchase, is why would the T+A be worth 2 1/2 times more than the NAD?

Comparing features... the T+A has two sets of speaker outputs while the NAD has only one... they both have a set of outputs in order to daisy chain an additional amplifier (T+A is XLR while the NAD is RCA). So far the T+A has a couple small but arguably nice advantages.

The NAD has a variable gain function which is a very nice additional allowing the amplifier to match up with a wider range of other equipment. The NAD also has auto-sensing functions with adjustment sensitivity ranges. Some use in various applications. The single biggest difference however is that the NAD has a switchable bridge mode allowing for adding a second unit and running them in mono.

I would say that both companies have a long term reputation of building at a high level. NAD actually backs their units with a longer warranty. Therefore I would say that they are comparable. I would give T+A a slight positive for their reputation of ultra high level design, performance, and build quality. NAD certainly has gained a high level reputation in their 49+ years also.

Therefore I again put forth the proposition, how can T+A justify 2 1/2 times the price to the NAD product line?
a_200_slider_a_200_back-scaled-scaled.jpgNAD_C_298_Pre-Production_Rear__19728.1614979264.jpg

Specifications from manufactures:
T+A A200
125 WPC @ 8 Ohms
250 WPC @ 4 Ohms
Signal to Noise ratio 113 dB
THD 0.002%

NAD C298
185 WPC @ 8 Ohms
340 WPC @ 4 Ohms
620 W @ 8 Ohms (bridged mode)
Signal to Noise ratio 120 dB
THD 0.005%

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

Yea, we are all speculating until they actually officially release the new line. Honestly, I would think the T+A would be absolute top notch, but I also would believe that they and NAD are the two doing it "better" so to speak. However the real question, and I think I have already answered this with my choice of purchase, is why would the T+A be worth 2 1/2 times more than the NAD?

Comparing features... the T+A has two sets of speaker outputs while the NAD has only one... they both have a set of outputs in order to daisy chain an additional amplifier (T+A is XLR while the NAD is RCA). So far the T+A has a couple small but arguably nice advantages.

The NAD has a variable gain function which is a very nice additional allowing the amplifier to match up with a wider range of other equipment. The NAD also has auto-sensing functions with adjustment sensitivity ranges. Some use in various applications. The single biggest difference however is that the NAD has a switchable bridge mode allowing for adding a second unit and running them in mono.

I would say that both companies have a long term reputation of building at a high level. NAD actually backs their units with a longer warranty. Therefore I would say that they are comparable. I would give T+A a slight positive for their reputation of ultra high level design, performance, and build quality. NAD certainly has gained a high level reputation in their 49+ years also.

Therefore I again put forth the proposition, how can T+A justify 2 1/2 times the price to the NAD product line?
a_200_slider_a_200_back-scaled-scaled.jpgNAD_C_298_Pre-Production_Rear__19728.1614979264.jpg

Specifications from manufactures:
T+A A200
125 WPC @ 8 Ohms
250 WPC @ 4 Ohms
Signal to Noise ratio 113 dB
THD 0.002%

NAD C298
185 WPC @ 8 Ohms
340 WPC @ 4 Ohms
620 W @ 8 Ohms (bridged mode)
Signal to Noise ratio 120 dB
THD 0.005%

Interesting

Originally Posted by CPP

Interesting

Another interesting thing:

NAD Electronics’ C 298 Power Amplifier Awarded Top Honour by EISA - NAD Electronics

Again, I would love the T+A because, well, it is T+A... but $2000 to $5000... again they appear to be pricing themselves out of the market . Just when they were starting to gain some good vibes in the US markets and magazines.

There is no way in hell I would consider getting ride of my DAC 8 DSD for a DAC 200. I'm sorry, but adding a single SE analog input and a big volume control on the front does not a pre-amp make . And... it is actually less functional then even the DAC 8 DSD as a pre-amp because the outputs are either or, not both. So my DAC 8 DSD would be able to power an amplifier and also power subwoofers... the DAC 200 cannot... what the hell are they thinking?

Oh, also, the MP 200 still does not play SACDs... what the crap T+A?

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

Another interesting thing:

NAD Electronics’ C 298 Power Amplifier Awarded Top Honour by EISA - NAD Electronics

Again, I would love the T+A because, well, it is T+A... but $2000 to $5000... again they appear to be pricing themselves out of the market . Just when they were starting to gain some good vibes in the US markets and magazines.

There is no way in hell I would consider getting ride of my DAC 8 DSD for a DAC 200. I'm sorry, but adding a single SE analog input and a big volume control on the front does not a pre-amp make . And... it is actually less functional then even the DAC 8 DSD as a pre-amp because the outputs are either or, not both. So my DAC 8 DSD would be able to power an amplifier and also power subwoofers... the DAC 200 cannot... what the hell are they thinking?

Oh, also, the MP 200 still does not play SACDs... what the crap T+A?

Keep what you have Randy.

Originally Posted by ramasmith

This amplifier is nice.

By that do you just mean it LOOKS nice? I don't think anyone outside T&A can yet say whether it SOUNDS nice!

Originally Posted by Hear Here

By that do you just mean it LOOKS nice? I don't think anyone outside T&A can yet say whether it SOUNDS nice!

I have no doubt it will be an excellent amplifier. T+A always makes top notch gear that is deserving of their name. On the other hand, my biggest beef with this new series is I believe they are using the new line to raise prices and it is another example of them pricing themselves out of the market.

Example:
DAC 8 DSD $4500 - DAC 200 $6900
AMP 8 $3500 - A 200 $4900

Yes, in both cases some feature differences, but also in both cases it could be argued that in some ways they may not actually be improvements.

Every company tries to find a niche. For profit companies that is. Basic sales and marketing. Including sale territories (I.e US vs. Europe). And pricing for each territory. Whether that strategy is successful, only market can tell. Supply and demand. Value per currency unit spent. I am in the US, and I own the PA 3100 HV integrated amp for almost two years now. It’s an amazing piece of equipment, and it is not being replaced until it breaks down

Several people on this forum own various pieces of T+A. I do not believe performance and quality have ever been an issue. I would also believe that I am not alone in feeling that there is nothing at this point that would get my T+A out of my system.

The real issue in the US is that for the most part T+A is an unknown commodity. There have recently been several articles and excellent reviews on their pieces and just when they appear to be on the cusp of becoming a highly regard brand on this side of the pond they start raising their prices. In many situations beyond a point of competitiveness. The 200 series looks pretty nice, but priced to a point that there is no justification for current customers or compared to the competition . Too bad.