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  1. #31
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    Re: REL - which one?

    Even Wilson recommends subs for them, if you want the best from them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I tend to agree! No subs for me.
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  2. #32
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    Re: REL - which one?

    Quote Originally Posted by the professor View Post
    Even Wilson recommends subs for them, if you want the best from them.
    I'm so confused.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Audio Research, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Ayre Acoustics, Berkeley Audio Design, Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, EMM Labs, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Gryphon Audio, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Roon Labs, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stenheim Loudspeakers, Stillpoints, T+A Electronics, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  3. #33
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    Re: REL - which one?

    We all are, @ times.
    ~ Bob ~
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  4. #34
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    Re: REL - which one?

    Mike, subtle advice sometimes needs to be advocated on!Even if it wasn't so publique!

  5. #35
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    Re: REL - which one?

    Isn't the idea of using subs for full range speakers twofold? First, if needed, to give the speaker the bottom most octave (which we really don't hear as much as we feel), and second, and I think more importantly, especially when used in pairs, to deal/cancel room nodes/resonances at the difficult bottom frequencies that could be smearing the mids on up?

    If you take the time to optimize the Alexia to the room, I don't think the Alexia is in need of additional bass (the first reason). I'm not 100% sure as I don't have my speakers yet. But if the Alexia/room interaction is such that you have low end challenges they might be handled by adding a pair of subs.

    Mike, I would wait until all the acoustic treatments are in, the power is cleaned up and the Stillpoints are on. Then use your ears and maybe another set of measurements to determine if you need them (want is another question). Just my $.02.


    Allen

    Speakers: Magico S7
    Amp: CH Precision A1
    Preamp: Trinity Preamp
    Phono: Trinity Phono
    TT: Kronos Sparta, Helena arm, Airtight PC-1
    Cables: Various: Nordost, Shunyata, Unity Audio, Ansuz



  6. #36
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    Re: REL - which one?

    Quote Originally Posted by socfan12 View Post
    Isn't the idea of using subs for full range speakers twofold? First, if needed, to give the speaker the bottom most octave (which we really don't hear as much as we feel), and second, and I think more importantly, especially when used in pairs, to deal/cancel room nodes/resonances at the difficult bottom frequencies that could be smearing the mids on up?

    If you take the time to optimize the Alexia to the room, I don't think the Alexia is in need of additional bass (the first reason). I'm not 100% sure as I don't have my speakers yet. But if the Alexia/room interaction is such that you have low end challenges they might be handled by adding a pair of subs.

    Mike, I would wait until all the acoustic treatments are in, the power is cleaned up and the Stillpoints are on. Then use your ears and maybe another set of measurements to determine if you need them (want is another question). Just my $.02.
    Very good post and feel the same - Adding subs is very difficult to integrate. I have not yet to date heard a system with subs and being able to listen to various music without the owner including myself being able to just leave alone and enjoy! In the end I have always preferred just listening to the speakers in comparison.

    Subs would be the last item I would be looking to add, deal with all other issues.

    Mike what program along with process did you use measuring the room. Where did you position the mike and at what height.

    I really don't like the aesthetics of what most room acoustic products add to a room - did you happen to do any research in those new StillPoint panels prior to placing your order - if what is being written ends up being factual this would be very pleasing and my personally preference. You should be very pleased with your StillPoints once placed under your speakers - I assisted yet another friend yesterday and got to experience first hand the look on his face during listening once done which was priceless - he is very pleased. I was hoping he would say ya they make a difference but not enough to warrant the cost so I could have had some hand me downs and then been able to place under my VAC's to compare but unfortunately they are not going anywhere. I'm just being conservative thinking there won't be much of a difference in comparison to my existing set-up, darn things aren't cheap.

  7. #37
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    Re: REL - which one?

    Quote Originally Posted by annapolis Raider View Post
    Main System - Maggie 20.7, Rel G1, CJ GAT, CJ ART, CJ TEA/Auditorium SUT, Channel D Seta L, Light Harmonic, Aurender, Kuzma XL4/Four Point/Ortofon Anna, Cardas Cables, Artesania Rack/Minus K, ASC & RPG Room Treatments, Torus Power
    Reading your signature system description you have some lovely pces, would really enjoy seeing some pics. Would be great if you started a thread sharing such. Here's mine in the "members system" section including info on my own journey: http://audioshark.org/audioshark-mem...t-up-4173.html

  8. #38
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    Re: REL - which one?

    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    Very good post and feel the same - Adding subs is very difficult to integrate. I have not yet to date heard a system with subs and being able to listen to various music without the owner including myself being able to just leave alone and enjoy! In the end I have always preferred just listening to the speakers in comparison.

    Subs would be the last item I would be looking to add, deal with all other issues.

    Mike what program along with process did you use measuring the room. Where did you position the mike and at what height.

    I really don't like the aesthetics of what most room acoustic products add to a room - did you happen to do any research in those new StillPoint panels prior to placing your order - if what is being written ends up being factual this would be very pleasing and my personally preference. You should be very pleased with your StillPoints once placed under your speakers - I assisted yet another friend yesterday and got to experience first hand the look on his face during listening once done which was priceless - he is very pleased. I was hoping he would say ya they make a difference but not enough to warrant the cost so I could have had some hand me downs and then been able to place under my VAC's to compare but unfortunately they are not going anywhere. I'm just being conservative thinking there won't be much of a difference in comparison to my existing set-up, darn things aren't cheap.
    Hi dev,

    Sorry, I wasn't suggesting that adding subs is a bad idea. I think it can be very effective at dealing with low frequency room issues, but as you say, can be tricky to apply correctly. Was just suggesting that Mike is on the right path of addressing foundational items first (power, room acoustics, isolation) before evaluating the need for a pair of subs.

    dev, also agree with you I'm not a fan of room treatment aesthetics. Having said that, I think RPG and Vicoustics offer products that can be applied in visually pleasing ways. Sorry to get off topic, but here's an example from Vicoustics that I just love:





    Allen

    Speakers: Magico S7
    Amp: CH Precision A1
    Preamp: Trinity Preamp
    Phono: Trinity Phono
    TT: Kronos Sparta, Helena arm, Airtight PC-1
    Cables: Various: Nordost, Shunyata, Unity Audio, Ansuz



  9. #39
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    Re: REL - which one?

    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    Very good post and feel the same - Adding subs is very difficult to integrate. I have not yet to date heard a system with subs and being able to listen to various music without the owner including myself being able to just leave alone and enjoy! In the end I have always preferred just listening to the speakers in comparison.

    Subs would be the last item I would be looking to add, deal with all other issues.

    Mike what program along with process did you use measuring the room. Where did you position the mike and at what height.

    I really don't like the aesthetics of what most room acoustic products add to a room - did you happen to do any research in those new StillPoint panels prior to placing your order - if what is being written ends up being factual this would be very pleasing and my personally preference. You should be very pleased with your StillPoints once placed under your speakers - I assisted yet another friend yesterday and got to experience first hand the look on his face during listening once done which was priceless - he is very pleased. I was hoping he would say ya they make a difference but not enough to warrant the cost so I could have had some hand me downs and then been able to place under my VAC's to compare but unfortunately they are not going anywhere. I'm just being conservative thinking there won't be much of a difference in comparison to my existing set-up, darn things aren't cheap.
    A friend who is more knowledgeable in this area did it for me. He used the same program as Alan and upgraded mics. He tried multiple mic positions to gain a consensus. The data was then sent to Jeff who worked with vicioustics and ASC to devise a plan.

    I am probably going with stillpoints for my Alexia's and then probably under my preamp and sources to start.

    I will also add that Stillpoints are speaker and component dependent. A friend of mine added them under his S5's and said they sucked the life out of his system and made it dry sounding....hence the reason Magico does not recommend them. That being said, I'm hoping for good reports for the Stillpoints under Alexia's. They aren't an insignificant investment....but apparently, a good one.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Audio Research, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Ayre Acoustics, Berkeley Audio Design, Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, EMM Labs, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Gryphon Audio, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Roon Labs, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stenheim Loudspeakers, Stillpoints, T+A Electronics, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  10. #40
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    Re: REL - which one?

    Quote Originally Posted by socfan12 View Post
    Hi dev,

    Sorry, I wasn't suggesting that adding subs is a bad idea. I think it can be very effective at dealing with low frequency room issues, but as you say, can be tricky to apply correctly. Was just suggesting that Mike is on the right path of addressing foundational items first (power, room acoustics, isolation) before evaluating the need for a pair of subs.

    dev, also agree with you I'm not a fan of room treatment aesthetics. Having said that, I think RPG and Vicoustics offer products that can be applied in visually pleasing ways. Sorry to get off topic, but here's an example from Vicoustics that I just love:



    Subs - thanks for clarification. In my opinion specially in a home theatre atmosphere but when it comes to two channel only I just have not yet to date heard anything that I have preferred. Also adding ideally a home theatre room sound wise is different than a two channel

    Most defiantly very nice looking room indeed but just look at that Vicoustics mounted on the walls, one placed over top of the other and deforming "bowing" to me just looks tacky. These aren't exactly cheap either.

 

 
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