Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

**Shadowfax** · January 26, 2017, 12:36 PM

Just curious how many OB enthusiasts are here. There are other forums where many folks are using, building, and talking about open baffle speakers.

Anyone have any thoughts or observations from using OBs?

**Mike** · January 26, 2017, 12:59 PM

I've owned them and have friends with them. I've found, they need subs, a lot of subs, to reinforce the lower bass.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Devg** · January 26, 2017, 04:13 PM

I tend to agree with Mike. I have the Spatials M3s for couple of weeks and feel that a pair of subs (though I don't have any at the moment) are needed.

**chops** · January 27, 2017, 08:53 AM

I'm a huge fan of OB speakers. I've even built a few very successful ones over the years, all different types and sizes. And not all OB's need subs. If you do need subs for your OB's, that's where the DIY dipole subs come in handy. Tonality and performance-wise, they stay true to the OB's while still giving you the bass you need.

One pair I designed and built were big and ugly, but boy did they sound excellent! They used a pair of Usher Audio 15" drivers per side and an Altec Lansing 511B horn with Altec 902-8 drivers. They were an active, bi-amped system using a digital crossover. BTW, I was the first to try a horn on an OB. A lot of naysayers said it wouldn't sound good because the horn is highly directional and only fires forward. Well I kept telling them they were wrong and that this designed worked flawlessly. Then a couple years later, all of these people come out of the woodwork with these new speaker companies selling OB designs with horns. Imagine that. I should have patented the darn things!

I still have a pair of hybrid OB's, known as the AV123 X-Statik, which I have highly modified the crossovers in. IIRC, I paid $895 for them when new, and just over a year ago, I spent over $800 just in capacitors and resistors for the crossovers. Also did some enclosure dampening treatments. It all made a big improvement!

It's funny, I had these speakers since 2008, finally decided to do upgrades to them, then a month later I get the Sonus Faber Venere 1.5's, and of course now the ML SL3's.

**joeinid** · January 27, 2017, 09:15 AM

I used to own Alon Signature speakers (for 9 years) and Nola Micro Grand Reference speakers and loved them both. I do miss Carl's speakers, they were so musical and just so satisfying. The tweeters and mids were open but the woofers were sealed. I've always loved that open sound.

**bonzo** · January 27, 2017, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Shadowfax

Just curious how many OB enthusiasts are here. There are other forums where many folks are using, building, and talking about open baffle speakers.

Anyone have any thoughts or observations from using OBs?

Get restored apogees - no baffle, best bass, ribbon midrange

**joeinid** · January 27, 2017, 10:08 AM

My Apogee Duetta II's were wonderful. Wonder how the Analysis Audio speakers compare?

Originally Posted by bonzo

Get restored apogees - no baffle, best bass, ribbon midrange

**a.wayne** · January 27, 2017, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by bonzo

Get restored apogees - big baffle, but Best planer Magnetic bass, ribbon midrange/Twt

Fixed it for yah ....

**a.wayne** · January 27, 2017, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by joeinid

My Apogee Duetta II's were wonderful. Wonder how the Analysis Audio speakers compare?

According to those who have heard them, Similar sonics , AA easier to Drive , but all felt the apps had better Bass ....

**erniejade** · January 28, 2017, 02:15 PM

I had a set of Carver amazing in the past. They were darn good sounding when properly setup and powered. They would dip down to 1 ohm so the amp had to be very stable to run them on top of power since they were not efficient at all.

**a.wayne** · January 28, 2017, 03:24 PM

The Carver was pretty good , i did find them a bit laid back and never really projected a front to back sound stage thou , instead , everything sounded behind the speaker plane most of the time . Carvers Planer magnetic Mid/Twt driver were used by other speaker designers too, i think one was Genesis ...

Regards ..

**bonzo** · January 28, 2017, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by a.wayne

According to those who have heard them, Similar sonics , AA easier to Drive , but all felt the apps had better Bass ....

The AA are better than stock Apogees in the midrange, no match for the pure ribbon of a well restored full range. Also the AA are relaxing but not exciting like Apogees. Great tone and melody for classical and vocals, but not the tympani and bass drum dynamics or the additional ability to play rock and electronic. AA too need to be modded, as is done by the US distributor

**a.wayne** · January 28, 2017, 04:42 PM

Well ,

Nothing beats a straight foil , the purity of it is unmatched by anything with a VC , its the closet way to connecting the amp directly to a transducer, mostly because there is no VC for the sound, i did get tired of frying amps that weren't built like a 200 lb Krell and went to a multi-traced diaphragm setup , lost some of the naked detail , but picked up snap and percussive energy ( much better on piano's for eg) , doing another with even more traces and with xover mods may pickup another 2-4 db in sensitivity , if sonic' s stay up , it will be the way forward if not , i may just go back to a straight foil.....

Regards ..

**Priaptor** · February 6, 2017, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

I used to own Alon Signature speakers (for 9 years) and Nola Micro Grand Reference speakers and loved them both. I do miss Carl's speakers, they were so musical and just so satisfying. The tweeters and mids were open but the woofers were sealed. I've always loved that open sound.

As you know I have Carl's Concert Grand's, which for me, is an end game speaker. Personally, I have never been happier with a system or heard one I like better. Truly an amazing speaker.

**joeinid** · February 6, 2017, 05:33 PM

And paired with CJ or ARC, a truly engaging system. I've been to his factory and listened to what he had on demo. Carl and Marilyn are the consummate hosts. I felt like one of the family.

I can only imagine how good the Concert Grands sound.

Originally Posted by Priaptor

As you know I have Carl's Concert Grand's, which for me, is an end game speaker. Personally, I have never been happier with a system or heard one I like better. Truly an amazing speaker.

**JRC** · February 6, 2017, 05:52 PM

I've been very happy with my Linkwitz Orions over the past 8 years. I'm fortunate to have a dedicated listening space without SAF.

**joeinid** · February 6, 2017, 07:00 PM

Welcome to the forum, thank you so much for joining.

**Wasatch** · February 7, 2017, 10:56 AM

I believe I've never heard any OB speakers to date. Wish there were some places close by me to check gear out, but nothing.

**JRC** · February 7, 2017, 11:49 AM

Linkwitz has a network of users around the globe and many will gladly give you a listening. The is a website that you might find useful.

**Wasatch** · February 7, 2017, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by JRC

Linkwitz has a network of users around the globe and many will gladly give you a listening. The is a website that you might find useful.

Do you have a link?

**JRC** · February 7, 2017, 12:37 PM

As a very new member, I've not posted enough and am nit allowed to offer a link... Google Linkwtz Lab and there you go... There is a ton of information available. At the least, you will find it informative.

**Shadowfax** · February 7, 2017, 12:48 PM

http://oplug-support.org/
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/

**joeinid** · February 7, 2017, 12:57 PM

**Shadowfax** · February 7, 2017, 01:11 PM

And for the Desktop crew

**Mate** · February 7, 2017, 02:49 PM

I'd love to have open baffle speakers one day! The best system I ever heard - quite possibly the best system in Croatia - has them. You can see it: http://tooloud.co/oz-audio-sustav/

**Shadowfax** · February 7, 2017, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Mate

I'd love to have open baffle speakers one day! The best system I ever heard - quite possibly the best system in Croatia - has them. You can see it: http://tooloud.co/oz-audio-sustav/

They look killer, would love to hear that system too.

**AJ Soundfield** · February 9, 2017, 10:24 AM

My personal OBs back in 2004. Yes, based on Orions, after hearing (and measuring) a friends version.

cheers,

AJ

**Ossidian** · November 27, 2018, 08:35 PM

No subwoofer needed for my Hawthorne Rainiers, lightning fast bass that is deep and accurate. 20 hz - 40 khz (+/- 3db)
I always get a good laugh at blanket statements like "open baffle always need a subwoofer."

**Ossidian** · November 27, 2018, 08:39 PM

Using matching 300 wpc plate amps for the Auggies and MC2000 for the AMT and midrange driver.
15" AMT plays from 40 khz to 500 hz.

**Priaptor** · November 28, 2018, 10:54 AM

As someone else mentioned, if you are interested in open baffle speakers you must listen to NOLA. I owned MicroGrands, Baby Grands and ultimate the Concert Grands, the last being Harry Pearson's favorite speaker of all time and always loved the sound. Are the perfect? NO but no speaker I know of is. They do give a warm, deep and wide soundstage like few others. Easy to listen to all day.

**AJ Soundfield** · November 28, 2018, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Priaptor

As someone else mentioned, if you are interested in open baffle speakers you must listen to NOLA. I owned MicroGrands, Baby Grands and ultimate the Concert Grands

Please don't take this wrong, but per the website the Concert Grands are monopolar/closed, with the exception of the 4 midrange drivers - which appear to operate between 400hz - 1Khz (less because the filter slopes are not brickwall). That's a really narrow range of "open baffle". No comment on SQ, never heard and I'm sure your description is apt. Just thought calling these "Open baffles" has some caveats.
How do they compare to your Aeons?

cheers,

AJ

**chops** · November 28, 2018, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Ossidian

No subwoofer needed for my Hawthorne Rainiers, lightning fast bass that is deep and accurate. 20 hz - 40 khz (+/- 3db)
I always get a good laugh at blanket statements like "open baffle always need a subwoofer."

I couldn't agree more. All of the open baffle designs I've built were all big and ugly (and I DO mean ugly - LOL), but they all used large drivers (12's or 15's) and offered plenty of deep bass on their own.

These, built back in 2004 I believe, utilizing cheap Pyle Pro 15" drivers on 24" x 24" x 36" H-Frames. These drivers had the perfect specs for open baffle use. Only using the slightest bit of EQ to PULL BACK on them around 90 Hz. These had a measured, solid, usable output down to 16 Hz. Effortless and ultra clean no matter what volume level they were played at. And they were ultra efficient. I noted about a 12 watt max input and the bass just cut right through you. They were awesome, and STILL the absolute best sounding subs I've ever heard anywhere, at any price, in any system. And they matched up to the Magnepan MGLR-1's perfectly. And yes, that's a pair of JBL L112's being used as a center channel.

Next up were the extremely large, tall and ugly Usher/Altec combo I posted in the beginning of this thread. These needed some EQ tweaking to get them to play flat and still sound good. Even so, they were capable of measured usable output down to 20 Hz. Again, just as the subs above, very effortless at any volume and required minimal power to get very loud. I noted a max of 10 watts going to the woofers and almost 1 watt going to the horns, and it was getting painful to stay in the room. BTW, that's a Klipsch Cornwall II in the left corner with an Altec 511B horn sitting on top just to show how big my open baffles really were.

And the last open baffles I built, just a few months ago, much smaller in design, using smaller 12" drivers this time, but still just as ugly as the rest. LOL These use 12" Eminence "guitar" drivers for bass duty and a pair of Audio Nirvana Super 12 fullrange drivers, playing full range and the woofers crossing over around 50-60 Hz IIRC. Again, super efficient and effortless sound. Using only the one bass driver on these much smaller "L" winged baffles, they are capable of clean usable output down to 30 Hz, rapidly dropping off from there.

I still have six more of those Eminence drivers to add to that setup at some point, two above and two below the fullrange driver which will greatly increase their bass performance and dynamic range to say the least.

At some point, when we finally move into a house, I want to complete this system with proper baffles, and bring back those original Pyle Pro open baffle subs, but this time with double walled and damped baffles. I'll have one of my good friends do all of the woodwork (professional craftsmen) and have them look the part.

**Priaptor** · November 28, 2018, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield

Please don't take this wrong, but per the website the Concert Grands are monopolar/closed, with the exception of the 4 midrange drivers - which appear to operate between 400hz - 1Khz (less because the filter slopes are not brickwall). That's a really narrow range of "open baffle". No comment on SQ, never heard and I'm sure your description is apt. Just thought calling these "Open baffles" has some caveats.
How do they compare to your Aeons?

cheers,

AJ

You are indeed correct. They are not true open baffle and limited to their mid and high range drivers. Their high range ribbon tweeters are open baffle and while Carl claims frequency up to 100 kHz with his small ribbon tweeter I found the highest octaves beautiful but very slightly rolled off relative to other speakers using ribbons.

The CGRs are one of the most listenable speakers I have ever owned. I loved them. They were never fatiguing. Carl designed them around low power tube amps where he felt they shined. It was only when I started experimenting for Elliot that we listened to some of the high end SS amps that I was flabbergasted. The speaker, IMHO, was better with some of these high end SS amps.

As compared to the Aeon, two different beasts although they do some things very similar. In terms of soundstage I always felt the CGR was just a little distorted with center stage very slightly exaggerated and off axis slightly smaller and distorted. Not a big deal but very slight. The CGR on the lowest octaves could get a little heavy but that seems to be a signature of most of Carl's speakers and was greatly improved with the solid state amps I tried it with.

Both speakers have a tremendous holographic you are there appeal time machine like quality. The Aeon has a more accurate soundstage, whether it be center stage or off axis and is truly unique in realness. The Aeon require much more time in setup than the CGR but you get rewarded for the effort. There is definitely more detail, transparency and better timbre with the Aeons which will reward the listener the better the front end. The Aeons don't reproduce the lower octaves the CGR does however, those that the Aeons reproduce are very tight and accurate. For example on Charlie Haden's double bass, the Aeons are as accurate as I have ever heard, while slightly limited in range, whereas the CGR were slightly bloated.

The Aeons is very coherent. One day I hope to realize it's full potential of coherency by trying it in biamped mode but right now I am using it in stereo mode

Both speakers are wonderful and very pleasing (and they should for the $$$). The CGR were unique as I really like "monitor" type speakers for their intimacy, particularly at lower volumes and the CGR were the best "BIG" monitors I have ever heard, unique among their size where most other large full scale speakers require louder volumes to realize their full potential; for me this was an interesting observation as Carl LOVES loud volumes which was why I was a little leery about the CGR before hearing them.

One last point. A game changer for me with the AEONs was the CH Precision M1 upgrade to the M1.1. As I stated above the front end of one's system is revealed in spades with the Aeons and this upgrade was a significant one to the system.

**Shadowfax** · November 28, 2018, 02:14 PM

The Pure Audio Project speakers do not need subs, but at some times I found the bass to be overloaded and not crisp and detailed as with smaller drivers. Maybe it was the rooms, I am not sure.

**AJ Soundfield** · November 28, 2018, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Priaptor

You are indeed correct. They are not true open baffle and limited to their mid and high range drivers. Their high range ribbon tweeters are open baffle and while Carl claims frequency up to 100 kHz with his small ribbon tweeter I found the highest octaves beautiful but very slightly rolled off relative to other speakers using ribbons.

I was basing my comments on the NOLA website description and this photo, ostensibly of a Concert Grand, apparently showing closed back ribbons. Perhaps an early version?

Congrats on the Aeons, would like to hear at some point. Unfortunately does not appear Gobel will be partaking FLAxpo this year.

**Edward** · November 28, 2018, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Wasatch

I believe I've never heard any OB speakers to date. Wish there were some places close by me to check gear out, but nothing.

rocky mountain is a couple of hundred miles from you and they have manufacturers that come with OB designs...

**Priaptor** · November 28, 2018, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield

I was basing my comments on the NOLA website description and this photo, ostensibly of a Concert Grand, apparently showing closed back ribbons. Perhaps an early version?

Congrats on the Aeons, would like to hear at some point. Unfortunately does not appear Gobel will be partaking FLAxpo this year.

Once again you are correct. I was referring to the drivers he has in his open baffle. If you speak to Carl he will give you his claims as to why these ribbons make a difference in the open baffle portion of his speaker (beyond just height). The reasoning, etc is beyond me and you are once again correct that the ribbon is closed and OEM'd for him.

Elliot now has his showroom in Ft. Lauderdale open. I think he is having an open house soon. He will be showing the Aeon Reference and Fine (the one I have) as well as Gobel's new Divin Noblesse. I personally haven't heard the Reference or the Noblesse but hope to go down there soon. I know he will be showing at multiple shows this year and anyone can make an appointment to go to his showroom. I know those guys spent a small fortune to get the showroom up as well as large amount of CH front end stuff.

Before their showroom, I was their guinea pig for the Aeon Fine. It was a real learning experience and took some time to get the parts together working properly. My room is a large one, 26' wide x 32' long x 12' tall. I like to create a "small room" within a large room environment. With the Aeon that is accomplished with the big ASC tube traps in the front corners, Art Novion absorbers on the front wall between the speakers and graduating in size ASC tubes obliquely lined up from in front of the speaker 2 feet lateral to each speaker. I also listen in a near field environment. I still have a little tinkering to do with the tilt of the Bending Wave driver but it is very close to where it has to be. I would estimate I am definitely above 95% of having it just right.

**Knightrider7007** · January 14, 2019, 05:21 PM

Wait, shouldn't all OBs be like that? Two exceptions aside, I haven't seen anything that's really pretty! it's part of their charm!

Thread: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Re: Where is the Open Baffle crowd?

Posting Permissions