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Thread: What’s your favorite ESL?
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February 25, 2020, 09:29 AM #1
What’s your favorite ESL?
What’s your favorite ESL speaker? Quad? KLH Model 9? Or a hybrid ESL like ML or MurAudio? Other?
Although planar magnetics are similar, I’m speaker purely of ESL’s.
For me, the Quad 63, 57 and 2912 are my faves.
I’m definitely looking forward to hearing this new Anniversary 60 Quad ESL.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
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February 25, 2020, 10:51 AM #2
Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
The 57's. Feed by Marantz 8b
2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)
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February 25, 2020, 10:57 AM #3
Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
I have never had the pleasure of listening to the speakers on your list, other than many Martin Logan models and a $20,000 prototype Jantzen (2009?) that captured the rear wave and sounded like a mix of sealed box and ESL dipole in a most favorable way. Oh, and an smaller Acoustat in a store early 1990's, almost forgot that one.
The mid-range suck out from rear wave interference that leaves a skeletal presentation with little oomph behind it on hard Rock & Roll is usually not attended to in a listening room at a store or at a hotel room audio show.
One must tune the acoustics of their living/listening space to get the most out of these types of speakers.
And in that context, the higher crossover frequency of the sealed box woofer in my first generation M/L Aerius speakers got most of that oomph back in my smaller room. They lowered the crossover point in subsequent models and missed the mark in my opinion.
I've heard 4 or 5 other M/L club members home systems, and in each case it was a more expensive model with more powerful amplification. They could play louder and do a grander scale but overall I liked the intimate balance that could Rock that I achieved in my own room.
ESL's can do grand scale grander than most dynamic drivers because of the way the sound wave is launched, but often at the cost of doing small scale intimate recordings right if other equipment upstream is not properly matched.
It seems like many stores want to WOW you with power and scale and neglect the finer points.
This is one of the reasons I've always wanted to hear some Quads (63, 57), they are supposed to be grand at small things without applying a grandness to all.
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February 25, 2020, 11:21 AM #4
Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
Mike, I agree, looking forward to the Quad 60's, agree with Chris on 57's, but as a former Logan owner (Vantage / Spire's) if I were to buy back into stats today it would be a pair of ML 13a's
Cheers ! …. Dave
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February 25, 2020, 11:27 AM #5
Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
I’ve always wanted to hear Soundlab speakers. I think they need some room to breathe but if some of the past reviews are accurate, they could be heavenly.
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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February 25, 2020, 11:36 AM #6
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Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
Ohhh....This hits me in my weak spot. The short answer is - I love them all, differently. My introduction to high end was a pair of Acoustat Xs, driven by their own tube amp. They were a quantum leap from anything I had heard before, however, I felt as they went to the transformer and then hybrid route, they headed in the wrong direction. I had a pair of CLS's with Vandersteen subs - beautiful and magical. Wandered on to Sound Labs. I felt they were the most tonally accurate but were unreliable and lacked dynamics for years - both problems now solved. I love the Quad sound, but the Chinese panels had such a bad reliability history, maybe they are better now. What finally did me in was the sheer oppressiveness of big slabs in my living room, but then, I am an aesthetics guy. Martin Logans appeal to me due to their see through screens. In the past I found their hybrids to not be my cup of tea, but their current top of the line I find to be superb. The Janszens are superbly natural, if you don't like the dipole presentation. Roger Sanders also makes a great hybrid esl for the solo listener.
Cheers,
Mark
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February 25, 2020, 01:18 PM #7
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February 25, 2020, 01:58 PM #8
Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
I recently heard a pair of Magnepan 1.7i driven by a McIntosh MC303. Holy cow that was awesome. I loved it.
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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February 25, 2020, 02:15 PM #9
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Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
Martin Logan 13As or 15As. With the right amps and subs (for synergy ML BalancedForce 212s) they are wonderful.
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February 26, 2020, 05:55 PM #10
Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
For me, it's been Sound Labs for over 20 years, with a preference for planars going back 55 years. Prior to Sound Labs, I auditioned Martin Logans, Quads and Magnepan. While I am a home based dealer, I consider myself to be more of an enthusiast. I am located in San Francisco, and would welcome a visit from any AS member who would like to hear them.
Tom
Ultimate Audio
SoundLab Dealer
Country System:
SoundLab Ultimate-1PX Electrostatic Speakers
Pass Labs XP-32 pre, Pass Labs XA60.8 Amps
Pass Lab XP-27 phono stage
SME 20/2 table with SME V arm, Stillpoints LPI
Minus-K BM-8 passive vibration control under tt
Dynavector XV-1s, Koeitsu Rosewood Signature cartridges, Klaudio RCM
Roon Nucleus+ powered by Keces P-8 LPS
Lumin X-1 Network Music Player
3 dedicated AC lines
Shunyata Omega PC to Everest for all source devices
Typhon for each amp powered by 2 dedicated circuits
Various Shunyata Alpha & Sigma PC's throughout.
Stillpoints under everything.
City System:
Ayre KX-R Twenty Preamp
Pass Labs X-260.8 Monoblocks
Esoteric K-03 SACD Player
Roon Nucleus+powered by UpTone Audio JS-2 LPS
Lumin X-1 Network Music Player
Sound Lab Ultimate-545PX Speakers
Shunyata Hydra 8, Typhon QR
Various Shunyata Alpha & Sigma PC's throughout
Stillpoints under everything. Multiple room acoustic panels.
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February 26, 2020, 08:10 PM #11
Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
Quad 63s w Gradient SW63
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February 26, 2020, 10:15 PM #12
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February 26, 2020, 10:16 PM #13
Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
BTW , Best ESL loudspeakers i have ever heard were Acoustats and mirrored closely by Sound labs...
Regards
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February 26, 2020, 11:28 PM #14
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- St. Louis, MO, USA
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- 3,068
Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
I've heard some good set ups with Martin Logan. I like Sanders.
I only heard Quad once, I forget the model. It was at Axpona in the Mobile Fidelity room when they became the..... I think distributor.
Anyway, they engaged me like no other ESL. Like I told a friend who was with me, I could criticize but for some reason I just want to sit and listen. The music played wasn't even that great, LOLAurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
Mark Levinson #526, 534 & JBL 4367's
Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
Clarus Concerto & their Crimson cables
HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
SVS PC13 Ultra
Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP
Parasound P6, MBL 8006b, Artisan speakers/subwoofer
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February 27, 2020, 01:34 AM #15
Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
Borresen Acoustics Loudspeakers, Borresen Model 01 Compact monitor loudspeakers with Ansuz Darkz T2s Supreme resonance control, Audio Video Manufaktur GmbH (AVM) Inspiration amplifier & streamer, Innuos Zen MKII music server, Ansuz Acoustics cables & accessories. Please visit my system thread hosted on Audioshark for more details. Disclosure: The author is materially connected to Ansuz, Aavik & Borresen Acoustics via friendship with an owner.
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February 27, 2020, 08:43 AM #16
Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
Accuphase A-75, C-3850, DP-750, T-1200, C-37, P-530 / Magico S7, Mcoat Red w/Mpod / LessLoss C-MARC Entropic cables (Spk. IC's PC's) / Clearaudio Innovation Wood, 9" Universal arm ,VTA adj. Outer Limit platter ring, Statement clamp / SteinMusic PI Carbon Signature Mat /My Sonic Lab Ultra Eminent EX MC cart./ Clearaudio 24v Battery PSU / Magnum Dynalab Signal Sleuth / B]Onyx Plus[/B] Sirius XM Sat Radio / Synergistic Research Galileo PowerCell SX ,Active Ground Block SE ,Black Box ,Acoustic ART, Atmosphere Infinity ,UEF panels /Stillpoints Apeture II panels /Furutech GTX-D NCF duplex outlets, NFC Booster-Braces/ 20a dedicated lines / SteinMusic H2 Harmonizers / Adona Eris II 5C racks / Symposium Acoustics Svelt Shelves /HRS Damping plates / KLAudio Ultrasonic RCM / Clearaudio Smart Matrix Pro. RCM /Kemp Electroniks SR plugs,/ Akiko Audio Corelli PLC,Tuning Sticks/ LessLoss Firewall 640X, Blackbody v.2, BlackGround Power Base 10X, Blackground Speaker Base 8X, Firewall for speakers
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February 27, 2020, 11:06 AM #17
Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
My experience has been that even the very best of dome tweeters do not come remotely close to the resolving abilities of well-engineered ESL’s or plasma tweeters for that matter either. I encourage you to audition for yourself. I find that extremely light ESL diaphragm’s have superb transient response and musical transparency and are capable of serving up music with spooky levels of realism. ESL’s are not for everyone though. The bass is observationally quite different to a cone woofer (and sometimes feels deficient vs. the later); they take up a fair amount of floor space and are demanding on amplifiers.Borresen Acoustics Loudspeakers, Borresen Model 01 Compact monitor loudspeakers with Ansuz Darkz T2s Supreme resonance control, Audio Video Manufaktur GmbH (AVM) Inspiration amplifier & streamer, Innuos Zen MKII music server, Ansuz Acoustics cables & accessories. Please visit my system thread hosted on Audioshark for more details. Disclosure: The author is materially connected to Ansuz, Aavik & Borresen Acoustics via friendship with an owner.
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February 27, 2020, 03:37 PM #18
Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
My experience has been that most ESL transducers sound like someone's scratching a chalk-board, not to mention the limited dispersion and higher power requirements.
Resolution is one thing...Higher bandwidth and faster transient response at the expense of musicality and listen-ability is unacceptable,imoAccuphase A-75, C-3850, DP-750, T-1200, C-37, P-530 / Magico S7, Mcoat Red w/Mpod / LessLoss C-MARC Entropic cables (Spk. IC's PC's) / Clearaudio Innovation Wood, 9" Universal arm ,VTA adj. Outer Limit platter ring, Statement clamp / SteinMusic PI Carbon Signature Mat /My Sonic Lab Ultra Eminent EX MC cart./ Clearaudio 24v Battery PSU / Magnum Dynalab Signal Sleuth / B]Onyx Plus[/B] Sirius XM Sat Radio / Synergistic Research Galileo PowerCell SX ,Active Ground Block SE ,Black Box ,Acoustic ART, Atmosphere Infinity ,UEF panels /Stillpoints Apeture II panels /Furutech GTX-D NCF duplex outlets, NFC Booster-Braces/ 20a dedicated lines / SteinMusic H2 Harmonizers / Adona Eris II 5C racks / Symposium Acoustics Svelt Shelves /HRS Damping plates / KLAudio Ultrasonic RCM / Clearaudio Smart Matrix Pro. RCM /Kemp Electroniks SR plugs,/ Akiko Audio Corelli PLC,Tuning Sticks/ LessLoss Firewall 640X, Blackbody v.2, BlackGround Power Base 10X, Blackground Speaker Base 8X, Firewall for speakers
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February 28, 2020, 12:07 AM #19
Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
Tom
Ultimate Audio
SoundLab Dealer
Country System:
SoundLab Ultimate-1PX Electrostatic Speakers
Pass Labs XP-32 pre, Pass Labs XA60.8 Amps
Pass Lab XP-27 phono stage
SME 20/2 table with SME V arm, Stillpoints LPI
Minus-K BM-8 passive vibration control under tt
Dynavector XV-1s, Koeitsu Rosewood Signature cartridges, Klaudio RCM
Roon Nucleus+ powered by Keces P-8 LPS
Lumin X-1 Network Music Player
3 dedicated AC lines
Shunyata Omega PC to Everest for all source devices
Typhon for each amp powered by 2 dedicated circuits
Various Shunyata Alpha & Sigma PC's throughout.
Stillpoints under everything.
City System:
Ayre KX-R Twenty Preamp
Pass Labs X-260.8 Monoblocks
Esoteric K-03 SACD Player
Roon Nucleus+powered by UpTone Audio JS-2 LPS
Lumin X-1 Network Music Player
Sound Lab Ultimate-545PX Speakers
Shunyata Hydra 8, Typhon QR
Various Shunyata Alpha & Sigma PC's throughout
Stillpoints under everything. Multiple room acoustic panels.
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February 28, 2020, 06:30 AM #20
Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
Fair enough. I would be open to listening again to what would be considered the latest in ESL design. I based my opinion on
bad past experiences from 20-25 years ago I've had with Non-cone/dome drivers,especially the ones that were paired to conventional drivers in a hybrid design.
I just think its wrong to throw out an entire type of driver in a sweeping illogical statement,especial one made by a representative of a certain brand.Accuphase A-75, C-3850, DP-750, T-1200, C-37, P-530 / Magico S7, Mcoat Red w/Mpod / LessLoss C-MARC Entropic cables (Spk. IC's PC's) / Clearaudio Innovation Wood, 9" Universal arm ,VTA adj. Outer Limit platter ring, Statement clamp / SteinMusic PI Carbon Signature Mat /My Sonic Lab Ultra Eminent EX MC cart./ Clearaudio 24v Battery PSU / Magnum Dynalab Signal Sleuth / B]Onyx Plus[/B] Sirius XM Sat Radio / Synergistic Research Galileo PowerCell SX ,Active Ground Block SE ,Black Box ,Acoustic ART, Atmosphere Infinity ,UEF panels /Stillpoints Apeture II panels /Furutech GTX-D NCF duplex outlets, NFC Booster-Braces/ 20a dedicated lines / SteinMusic H2 Harmonizers / Adona Eris II 5C racks / Symposium Acoustics Svelt Shelves /HRS Damping plates / KLAudio Ultrasonic RCM / Clearaudio Smart Matrix Pro. RCM /Kemp Electroniks SR plugs,/ Akiko Audio Corelli PLC,Tuning Sticks/ LessLoss Firewall 640X, Blackbody v.2, BlackGround Power Base 10X, Blackground Speaker Base 8X, Firewall for speakers
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February 28, 2020, 07:02 AM #21
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February 28, 2020, 07:07 AM #22
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February 28, 2020, 12:37 PM #23
Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
Gene, I suspect you were hearing some bad digital and or poor amplification at work. Bad pairing as they say.
M/L's kind of expose anything bad up front, including poor recordings.
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March 11, 2020, 10:09 AM #24
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- Feb 2020
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- Carlsbad
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- 26
Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
I love my Martin Logan Montis speakers. I have spent ton of time optimizing location of the speakers, and treating the room. I have been to many $100K system demo's and none of them sound as good or better than my set-up (IMO) and I have a fraction of that invested in my system. I have yet to hear better sound or "see" / hear better imaging.
hikerneil
McIntosh C2600 Preamp
McIntosh MC452 Amp
Martin Logan Montis Speakers
Sony HAZ Z1ES Music Server
Technics SL-1200G Turntable
Analysis Plus Oval 9 Cables
Personally Made Room Treatments
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March 14, 2020, 07:12 AM #25
Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
Very sad to have to give up my martin logan summit x , they were the most awesome speakers i have ever had . still managed 4 years before swmbo decreed they must go
1]bel canto EIX/ F5 monoblocks . BC cd2, tannoy eaton legacy 2]bel canto pre 5 ,arcam a85 , black ice modded dac
modded dac , marantz sa8005, Verity audio Rienzi
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May 15, 2020, 04:43 PM #26
Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
Interesting. I bought a pair of Martin Logan 13As after hearing them (and some used Summits) in a showroom with the intention of replacing my 18 year old Agantgarde horns.
I'd earlier bought a pair of Quad 2905s (with 2912 mods) to see if I liked electrostatics. I was impressed although these "barn doors" could not remain in my home for aesthetic reasons. The MLs looked a godd proposition as they sounded great in the showroom. However, they didn't like my room one bit. Despite buying a Sanders Magtech to power them, a visit by the importer and a couple of runs of the Anthem room correction via the PBK kit, they were no match for my ancient horns. I have them for sale at a good price!
So I bought slightly newer AG Duos to replace the Unos.
However, I'm sure that the MLs would sound great in many listening rooms - just not mine. The Quads sounded much better.
The electrostatics I'd really like to audition are these tube-based active ones -
Not working - how does one add .jpg images? I'm getting "This is not a valid image file" despite my photo being a 'jpg!Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified
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May 15, 2020, 06:59 PM #27
Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
Its hard to un-hear a good set of horn speakers, harder still to replace them with 'stats. What stats do well, they do exceptionally well but horns aren't too far behind and over-all are the most satisfying (for me). So don't fight it, if you can have both! I'm on my 4th and last pr of Quad ESL 57s and they come out of the closet every so often when the urge is there.
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May 16, 2020, 09:14 PM #28
Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
Quad 2912s.
_______________
Mike
Amplification: MBL 6010D, MBL 9008A Monos
Analog: Kuzma R, Kuzma 4Point (11”), MSL Ultra Eminent EX
Phono Pre: Pass XP-27
Digital: Esoteric N01XD Esoteric K05
Speakers: MBL 101E MKII
Subwoofers: REL Carbon Specials
Conditioner: Shunyata Triton 3
Power Cables: Shunyata Sigma 1 & 2, Alpha 2, Delta and Venom
ICs and SCs: Wireworld Platinum 8
Rack: Artesania Exoteryc
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May 16, 2020, 10:26 PM #29
Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
Once again, I feel compelled to bring up Sound Lab electrostatics, as they are rarely mentioned in discussions like this. Yes, I am a dealer, but for the simple reason that they have been my favorite for the last 25 years, after having auditioned all the more popular and always mentioned stats, which in my opinion do not compare. Yes, they are not easily auditioned, and require a well matched amp to perform well. I am a music lover 1st, and and an audiophile 2nd (for over 65 years) and a dealer (home based) only because I am enthusiastic about the product, and not for any real profit. If profit was my motive, I would have been bankrupt many years ago.
If anyone is seriously considering any of the previously mentioned stats, they owe it to themselves to audition Sound Lab ELS speakers, even if it requires traveling some distance to do so, and it probably will. I have two different very SL models at two different locations, one in San Francisco, and the other in the boonies, two hours away from SF in the Wine Country. Please contact me if you are interested in hearing what I and many other audiophile/music lovers (almost an obscure cult) consider to be the best in Electrostatic speakers.
Yes, several previous posters mentioned SL ELS speakers, but the focus of this thread seems to be elsewhere. No one has contacted me about a visit. Even though the current SIP situation makes this unlikely, the offer is still open.Tom
Ultimate Audio
SoundLab Dealer
Country System:
SoundLab Ultimate-1PX Electrostatic Speakers
Pass Labs XP-32 pre, Pass Labs XA60.8 Amps
Pass Lab XP-27 phono stage
SME 20/2 table with SME V arm, Stillpoints LPI
Minus-K BM-8 passive vibration control under tt
Dynavector XV-1s, Koeitsu Rosewood Signature cartridges, Klaudio RCM
Roon Nucleus+ powered by Keces P-8 LPS
Lumin X-1 Network Music Player
3 dedicated AC lines
Shunyata Omega PC to Everest for all source devices
Typhon for each amp powered by 2 dedicated circuits
Various Shunyata Alpha & Sigma PC's throughout.
Stillpoints under everything.
City System:
Ayre KX-R Twenty Preamp
Pass Labs X-260.8 Monoblocks
Esoteric K-03 SACD Player
Roon Nucleus+powered by UpTone Audio JS-2 LPS
Lumin X-1 Network Music Player
Sound Lab Ultimate-545PX Speakers
Shunyata Hydra 8, Typhon QR
Various Shunyata Alpha & Sigma PC's throughout
Stillpoints under everything. Multiple room acoustic panels.
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May 18, 2020, 09:06 AM #30
Re: What’s your favorite ESL?
Most interesting Electrostatic ???
Tube Active full-range panels
Blanko Nu.jpg
Blanko No 2.jpg
I'll plan on hearing them when Europe eases travel restrictions as I'll be in the area they are built.Last edited by joeinid; May 18, 2020 at 12:32 PM.
Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
Amplification - NAD M33 all-in-one, NAD M12 preamp (in reserve), Atma-Sphere Class D monos
Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
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