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  1. #1

    Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    I'm in the market for some new speakers. If nothing else comes along then I'll be buying some Salon 2s. However I'm very intrigued by the Personas, not least because Paradigm use the same design parameters as JBL / Revel (based on Toole and Olive's research). There are no Personas in the UK where I live, so I'd be interested to hear from anybody who has heard the 5F or 7F as well as the Salons . . . .

  2. #2
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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Welcome to the forum Ian, thank you for joining.
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  3. #3

    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Thanks Joe, and thanks for the emails.

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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    My pleasure. If I can help someone avoid the mistakes that I made, I am right there with you.

    Thank you for being here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iansr View Post
    Thanks Joe, and thanks for the emails.
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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Hi lansr, welcome to AS.

    As to your question, one speaker has a gorgeous smooth tweeter. The other two will rip your ear off.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Heard the Persona 9H. Very clean, cool side of neutral, and bright. Would think the rest of the line is similar. Would need to be warmed and tamed a bit with other gear for most.

    Salons 2s are great - superb balance and coherence. And a track record of very satisfied long-term owners.
    Rance


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  7. #7

    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Hi lansr, welcome to AS.

    As to your question, one speaker has a gorgeous smooth tweeter. The other two will rip your ear off.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Is that based on actually having heard the Personas?

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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Quote Originally Posted by Iansr View Post
    Is that based on actually having heard the Personas?
    Absolutely. Check my photos from the shows.
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  9. #9

    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Ok thanks. I notice you are an Elac dealer. So notwithstanding your vested interest, how do you think the new Adante floorstander compares with the Salons?

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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Quote Originally Posted by Iansr View Post
    Ok thanks. I notice you are an Elac dealer. So notwithstanding your vested interest, how do you think the new Adante floorstander compares with the Salons?
    What amp? How big is your room? What kind of music do you listen to? Do you plan on adding subs?
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  11. #11

    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    What amp? How big is your room? What kind of music do you listen to? Do you plan on adding subs?
    I have a selection of amps, enough to bi-amp the Salons if I get those. Furthermore in the future I'll be acquiring some custom made monoblocks that will drive anything.
    I'm drawn to the idea of multiple sub woofers as advocated by Toole et al, so speakers that only go down to 40/45 hz are not an issue.

  12. #12

    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Quote Originally Posted by rrwmd View Post
    Heard the Persona 9H. Very clean, cool side of neutral, and bright. Would think the rest of the line is similar. Would need to be warmed and tamed a bit with other gear for most.

    Salons 2s are great - superb balance and coherence. And a track record of very satisfied long-term owners.
    Thanks

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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Quote Originally Posted by Iansr View Post
    I have a selection of amps, enough to bi-amp the Salons if I get those. Furthermore in the future I'll be acquiring some custom made monoblocks that will drive anything.
    I'm drawn to the idea of multiple sub woofers as advocated by Toole et al, so speakers that only go down to 40/45 hz are not an issue.
    If you're a fan of Toole, then you know the answer to the Paradigm vs Salon 2's. Floyd is a big fan of the Salon 2's.
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  14. #14

    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    I know he uses the Salons in his HT set up. I know they are great speakers, but you always wonder if there is something better for similar money. Or maybe for less - the Adante floorstanders??

  15. #15

    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    I'm in the market for a Persona pair of spakers. My room is 6x4 m, and I don't know what would fit better, 3F or 5 F. Unfortunately my dealer doesn't demo Persona, so I have to buy them blindly...
    Any info would help. Thanks!

  16. #16

    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    I'm in the market for a Persona pair of spakers. My room is 6x4 m, and I don't know what would fit better, 3F or 5 F. Unfortunately my dealer doesn't demo Persona, so I have to buy them blindly...
    Any info would help. Thanks!

  17. #17
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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Welcome to the forum, thank you for joining. Sorry for the late response.
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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Quote Originally Posted by camelus View Post
    I'm in the market for a Persona pair of spakers. My room is 6x4 m, and I don't know what would fit better, 3F or 5 F. Unfortunately my dealer doesn't demo Persona, so I have to buy them blindly...
    Any info would help. Thanks!
    My advise: don’t do it. That tweeter is very bright.
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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    I agree with Mike, having owned the Salon and auditioned the Persona 7F. The Salon was great back in the day, but it also has a fairly bright tweeter, though not as hot as the Persona. At least it's adjustable though. As is the bass, which makes it a pretty easy speaker to live with, other than size and price.

    If you have a bigger room, and you're set on one of these, I'd recommend the Salon.

    If your room is a little smaller, and you want something similarly neutral, consider the Magico A3. An amazing speaker for the price.

    Pretty ugly though.

    Of course the Salon is no beauty queen.
    Jon

  20. #20

    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Jon makes a great point regarding the magicos. I have heard the salon 2's a few times but not in my own set up, on levinson gear in a well treated room. Never really got into the sound. I found it too laid back for me. If you're thinking multiple subs then a magico s1 mk2 could also be an option...the diamond coated be tweeter never gets hot and the nanographene midrange is so pure. i haven't heard the a3 though and i don't remember the msrp on the salon 2's so i may be really out of line on pricing - iirc they were $25k/pair?

    if i may ask, who is making your monos/what brand?

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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    I've heard the Persona series at shows and my experience is similar to Mike's, finding them to be uncomfortably bright. Some may find them 'extremely revealing' but they sound completely unnatural to me. Don't know if you have any experience with the 10Audio review site, but you might want to check out his review of the Persona B monitors. 10Audio is a relatively small scale one man review site, but he doesn't often pan gear in his reviews with several products being awarded 10/10 LPs. His rating of the Persona Bs at 2/10 LPs is quite telling.

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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Quote Originally Posted by Iansr View Post
    I'm in the market for some new speakers. If nothing else comes along then I'll be buying some Salon 2s. However I'm very intrigued by the Personas, not least because Paradigm use the same design parameters as JBL / Revel (based on Toole and Olive's research). There are no Personas in the UK where I live, so I'd be interested to hear from anybody who has heard the 5F or 7F as well as the Salons . . . .
    Hi, I'm a speaker manufacturer, so take this with a grain of salt...I would strongly recommend you audition whatever speaker your eyes desire, with your own music.
    Bass response will be heavily influenced by the room/placement etc, but the the mids and highs characteristics should come through regardless (barring shenanigans by demonstrator), especially with familiar music, so you have something of an anchor. Do not judge solely by new, unfamiliar music. In the end, after all the friendly advice perhaps steering you to audition X, Y and Z, it should be your own ears that are the final arbiter. I understand that auditioning is not always easy, especially if there are no dealers around, but the audiophile road to nirvana is littered with those who rued the day they bought without auditioning. The price level and differences of speakers mentioned surely warrant the cost of a train or plane ticket somewhere, IMO.

    cheers,

    AJ

    p.s. If you've seen the measurements of both brands within the last 5-10yrs, you will see a significant divergence from the Toole/NRC(80s-90s) model days, FWIW.

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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    I have the salon2's and demoed the persona3f. I like that the persona 3 is about 1/4 the size of the salon2's and the pair I heard had a few hundred hours on them and we're reasonably smooth but they didn't image as tight as I expected and in that regard I prefer the kanta2. if your room can accommodate the salon2's go for it. I also heard the f228be in the same room with the same gear I bought my salons from and again if you have the room the salon2's the way to go

  24. #24

    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Hello,

    I have the Persona 9H since March, drive by a SET amp with 50 watts class A. The sound is very natural and not bright at all. The duration of my listening sessions are long and without any fatigue.

    Nuno

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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Welcome to the forum Nuno, thank you so much for joining.

    Sorry for the delay.
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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    If your room is less spacious, The Salon 2's little brother, Studio 2s, might be an excellent choice.

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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    If you are considering the Adante's then give a listen to the PSB T3's ($7500pr) if you have a local dealer. They are smooth and organic sounding, neutral with just a hint of warmth. No harshness from the tweeters. They image well and have good air and transparency. The bass is tune-able as they have 3 separate woofers and bass sections with ports that you can plug. They do go down to 24hz but I find they sound better with my 2 subs and tue bottom bass ports plugged. All the reviews compare them to speakers costing $15K to $20K. I bought a pair 2 months ago and they have finally broke in after about 85 hours.

    However, the Salon's are great sounding speakers, can't go wrong with them.

    AJ, I wished you were close by as I would have liked to hear your speakers.
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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechnutt View Post
    AJ, I wished you were close by as I would have liked to hear your speakers.
    It's going to be OMG bitter cold in Minnesota Feb 8th-10th. Just saying...

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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Just curious there in the UK if you heard the Monitor Audio Platnum or KEF Reference speakers. I personally like the KEF Ref over the Blades, the Ref being warmer. Platnums come off a very dynamic, I find them a fun listen. I like the Salon 2, which IMO fit somewhere between the prior speakers mentioned, in sound character.

    A friend had Salon 2's with Levinson in a large room and spread apart, they sounded great. Another friend had a set in a mid to small room and it wasn't flattering. He finally did get them sounding decent, interestingly, by adding a sub and using a crossover to cut some of the bottom off the Salons. Unfortunately, I don't know what the frequency was.
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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    friend of mine has just done some demo`ing of a few speakers and chosen the monitor audio platinum , very good value and excellent sonics
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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    I sold my Salon 2's after 9-10 months of moving them around the room I decided not to invest in more amplification or subs or both, and let them go. I spent a couple hours with the 7f yesterday and they were playing at very high spl without the power meter on the anthem amp passing 40 watts! I honestly believe I would have needed 1000 clean watts to reach the same spl with the salon2. I'm going to talk to my dealer about buying the 7f new to take advantage of the sale that lasts til the end of the month. simce the thread is about both once I get the 7f in my system i'll report back. if the in home demo goes well i'll be buying them.
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  32. #32

    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Quote Originally Posted by steve59 View Post
    I sold my Salon 2's after 9-10 months of moving them around the room I decided not to invest in more amplification or subs or both, and let them go. I spent a couple hours with the 7f yesterday and they were playing at very high spl without the power meter on the anthem amp passing 40 watts! I honestly believe I would have needed 1000 clean watts to reach the same spl with the salon2. I'm going to talk to my dealer about buying the 7f new to take advantage of the sale that lasts til the end of the month. simce the thread is about both once I get the 7f in my system i'll report back. if the in home demo goes well i'll be buying them.
    Any luck with the Paradigm Persona 7f? I demoed them briefly and found the mids and highs unobjectionable. The bass troubled me. It sounded "ported," especially relative to the super-clean mids and highs. I'll go for a second listen and, if possible, try to demo them in my house.

    If I don't purchase these, it'll be the Salon 2s, probably used. Would love to hear these 2 speakers a/b'd on a wide variety of material. I find that with very good speakers, your ears will accomodate over time. So, if I'm with Salon 2s ONLY for a month, I'll grow accustomed to the sound. Ditto for other really good speakers. That's why I'd really like to a/b the Salons against other candidates, in this instance, the F7s. I'm not sure the 9Hs are a totally fair comparison, as they are more expensive.

  33. #33
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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Go ahead and compare the Salon 2 to the more expensive set, then you will see what a value the Salon's are. You're right though, they thrive on some current. You won't drive them with a receiver but something like a Bryston 4B cubes or Halo A21 would make them sing if on a budget.

    Quote Originally Posted by john grant View Post
    Any luck with the Paradigm Persona 7f? I demoed them briefly and found the mids and highs unobjectionable. The bass troubled me. It sounded "ported," especially relative to the super-clean mids and highs. I'll go for a second listen and, if possible, try to demo them in my house.

    If I don't purchase these, it'll be the Salon 2s, probably used. Would love to hear these 2 speakers a/b'd on a wide variety of material. I find that with very good speakers, your ears will accomodate over time. So, if I'm with Salon 2s ONLY for a month, I'll grow accustomed to the sound. Ditto for other really good speakers. That's why I'd really like to a/b the Salons against other candidates, in this instance, the F7s. I'm not sure the 9Hs are a totally fair comparison, as they are more expensive.
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  34. #34
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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Yes, compare, just have a bag of cotton balls ready for that Paradigm tweeter. Ear bleeding is a real possibility.


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  35. #35

    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Yes, compare, just have a bag of cotton balls ready for that Paradigm tweeter. Ear bleeding is a real possibility.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Rock concerts and power tools have solved that problem for me. But my wife's ears are still pristine. She's very picky, but not just about the sound (unfortunately), but also about the "aesthetics," shall we say.

  36. #36
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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Salon 2s. Hard to believe that they’re still in production and being recommended by the press. Yet, they are very musical and don’t cost a fortune. Revel has not been able to do a Salon 3 after all these years. I had a pair and would buy them again.
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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    My problem with the salon2 was I couldn’t afford to power them. I know guys are using emotiva, but once I hear something I can’t unhear it and my h360 with 425/4 x2 wasn’t enough juice. My dealer told me to forget about the 7f, said I would need at least the 9h since I won’t use subs. So no 7f updates from me. I can talk about the ushers and the DSP8000’s if you want.
    KEF Blade, Mc-611's, C49 rega jupiter, roon nucleus, revox tuner. Meridian dsp8000 se upgrade, meridian 218 zone controller VA Beethoven's, Hegel h360.

  38. #38
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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    I heard Salon 2s (nominally 6 ohm speakers) powered by a Mark Levinson 534 not long ago at a dealer - excellent! The 534 is rated at 250 watts doubling to 500 into 4 ohms. IMO the Salons are superb speakers regardless of age when set up correctly in the right room.

  39. #39
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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    A pair of Parasound JC-1’s would drive Salon 2’s nicely. Add a pair of JL 112’s and you’ve got a nice system, and a tweeter that won’t make your ears bleed.


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  40. #40

    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    i'm sure an amp from odyssey audio would drive the salons with no issue as well. mine is in complete control of my magicos and raidho prior to that.
    full disclosure: i'm upgrading to a symphonic line kraft - if you are interested in the odyssey feel free to pm me as i plan on selling it. but this post was made as a genuine rec and not trying to snag a sale. the odyssey amps have a very well deserved reputation
    Last edited by Skanda; March 24, 2019 at 10:32 AM. Reason: typo

  41. #41

    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Quote Originally Posted by steve59 View Post
    My problem with the salon2 was I couldn’t afford to power them. I know guys are using emotiva, but once I hear something I can’t unhear it and my h360 with 425/4 x2 wasn’t enough juice. My dealer told me to forget about the 7f, said I would need at least the 9h since I won’t use subs. So no 7f updates from me. I can talk about the ushers and the DSP8000’s if you want.
    The h300 integrated was flat and uninvolving with my salon2's but the h30 in stereo mode was plenty of power to make them sing in a 17x38 room. I also get great sound with 600w classe monos -- you should be able to find pretty good deals on used models of either amp brand.
    Parker

  42. #42
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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Are you saying the 360 couldn't drive the Salons?

    My friend used a 360 to drive Salon 2's and KEF Ref 5's, at different times, of course. Another friend who has an all Ultima home theater can drive the Salons into the ground with an ATI 3000, he has upgraded to the 6000 signature.

    Quote Originally Posted by steve59 View Post
    My problem with the salon2 was I couldn’t afford to power them. I know guys are using emotiva, but once I hear something I can’t unhear it and my h360 with 425/4 x2 wasn’t enough juice. My dealer told me to forget about the 7f, said I would need at least the 9h since I won’t use subs. So no 7f updates from me. I can talk about the ushers and the DSP8000’s if you want.
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
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  43. #43

    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    In fairness I am unfamiliar with the 360. The power specs on the 300 and 360 are only part of the story. The preamp section plays a big part as well. I originally replaced my 300 with the p30+h30 combo. An improvement, sure, but what took the system over the top was inserting a Soulution 520 pre (also decent used pricing now). I tried replacing the h30 with Soulution 501s, but those seemed unable to fill the Revel’s belly in a large room. At my mountain house I’m using an EMM Pre2 (also good used deals) with 600 watt Classes in a 23x36 room with great success. So it’s a combination of sufficient quality watts and the right pre to make the Salon2s come to life. IME Hegel preamplification vis the p30 and h300 can be noticeably improved upon. Whether this observation applies to hegel’s more recent integrateds I can’t say, but this could explain Steve’s dissatisfaction with the 360.
    Parker

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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    I know of a guy that loves the salon2's with his h360, but when I put red hot chili peppers on a boogie levels the thermal protection kicked in and I like my music dynamic and punchy. I've heard from both camps and it's probably room and music dependent. The h360 is a keeper but for Rock music in a large dead room the salon2' s need an arc welder to drive them. My Ushers are 6db louder at 55 than the revels were at 75 on the dial. The gent I sold my salon's to uses mc 601's and says they're peak lights are blinking as often as not.
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  45. #45
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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    The Pass X350.8 does a great job driving the Salon 2s.
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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    I actually text Revel support and asked how much power they recommend for the salon and was told simply "500 watts". I need to clarify something in regards to the h360. I love it, I picked it among several others at the price because I found it to be the most musical, natural sounding product I could find and I replaced the A21 with it. The reason for my contribution to the thread was another poster recommending the A21 to drive the speakers and I know first hand that they(revels) would benefit from much more power.
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  47. #47
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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    I wonder if that 500 watts is 250x2? If not, ask them which of their amps put out 500 watts x2. I can't think of one unless maybe the 53 monoblocks.

    The 532h is 300x2 and doesn't even double down and I know it drives the Salon 2's. Even at high volumes with reference label recordings.

    Glad you chimed in, all input is welcome. I've just not seen the Salons be that difficult to drive. I do know the dealer wasn't as happy with the 585 driving them as the 532h.

    Larry drove his Maggies with an A21, I'd be surprised if the Salons impedance dipped lower than those.

    Quote Originally Posted by steve59 View Post
    I actually text Revel support and asked how much power they recommend for the salon and was told simply "500 watts". I need to clarify something in regards to the h360. I love it, I picked it among several others at the price because I found it to be the most musical, natural sounding product I could find and I replaced the A21 with it. The reason for my contribution to the thread was another poster recommending the A21 to drive the speakers and I know first hand that they(revels) would benefit from much more power.
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
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  48. #48
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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    I was just curious, this is from J Atkinson's measurements of the Salon 2. Larry Green used Levinson amps, JA had some monster Musical Fidelity 750watts

    https://www.stereophile.com/content/...r-measurements

    Sound Stage: The Salon2’s anechoic sensitivity is said to be 86.4dB/2.83V/m, and its impedance is rated at a nominal 6 ohms, with a low of 3.7 ohms at 90Hz. You’ll need a reasonably powerful amp to play them to appreciable volume levels, but you don’t have to go overboard. I used amps rated from 100 to 175Wpc with the Salon2s, and they worked just fine. No doubt you could use something bigger -- ideally, something rated at 250-300Wpc, if only for that ease and effortlessness that a really big amp can provide. Unfortunately, I had no such beast on hand.

    Doug Snyder said the Salon 2 was the best passive speaker had reviewed to date. http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/equ...ima_salon2.htm
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  49. #49
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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    I can only talk of my personal experience.
    KEF Blade, Mc-611's, C49 rega jupiter, roon nucleus, revox tuner. Meridian dsp8000 se upgrade, meridian 218 zone controller VA Beethoven's, Hegel h360.

  50. #50
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    Re: Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    I was just curious, this is from J Atkinson's measurements of the Salon 2.

    https://www.stereophile.com/content/...r-measurements
    The impedance is 4 ohms +/- over a wide swath, so the 86db +/- voltage sensitivity is really 83db/1watt (or 86db/2 watts).
    I'd personally recommend an amp capable of 500w rms into 4 ohms to drive them in a larger room. Luckily, there are a number of sanely priced class D amps capable of doing just that. A Hypex NC500 based amp should do so handily.

    cheers,

    AJ

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