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  1. #1
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    New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    My goal is to upgrade my wonderful Magico S3 Mk2 speakers to do justice to the rest of my system. Next 6-12 months.

    Have settled on the above options as preferences. Would appreciate thoughts. From what I have learned, all these speakers are equivalent (roughly speaking). Unless you think I am completely missing something, please do not suggest alternatives. For example, am not interested in Focal or Wilson (for various reasons).

    Key info:
    - my room is 19 feet deep, very wide and very high ceiling
    - music preferences: eclectic. Everything. Classical, jazz, Aftrobeat, Bossanova, Hard rock, electronica etc (except country and western &#129322
    - my bias is towards percussion and bass
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  2. #2
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Also, although I know the merits of subwoofer(s) I have no space for them, so subs are out.
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  3. #3
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    I’ll stay out of this one. New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon


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  4. #4
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Whenever I've heard the Magico M series - 2, 3 or 6 they have sounded pretty dang good. The Rockports and YG are hit and miss when Ive listened to them, sometimes good and sometimes bad. I no experience with the Gryphon.
    Jock

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    House: Naim ND555/2PS, Naim 552, Naim 500, Studer A80/Doshi V3, Magico M2s, 2 Magico Q-Sub 15s, Lumina IC/SC, Shunyata Everest and Omega PCs.

    Workshop: Naim ND555/2 PS, VAC Master Pre, VAC Sig 200iQ, Border Patrol pre/power, Avant Garde Duo Mezzo XD, 2 Magico Q-Sub 15s, Shunyata IC/SC, Shunyata Typhon QR/Triton V3/Sigma PCs.

  5. #5
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    All four will be great speakers, the Gryphon is the "odd" one in this group (ported and an AMT tweeter), personally I like closed enclosure designs. Chosing the Magico M3 or YG Acoustics Sonja is a matter of taste, I like the Kick bass in the Magico designs, but the YG acoustics designs go down lower in my experience.
    Moon 700i V2, YG Acoustics Hailey, Aurender N10, dCS Rossini, Oppo BDP103D (audiopraise board), Ansuz Mainz 8 D2

  6. #6
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    AJR, with your bias toward bass, I'm surprised that Wilson, probably the Alexia II, isn't on your candidate list along with Rockport.

  7. #7
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    AJR, you can see writeups of most of the brands you're hearing on my huge speaker thread "elsewhere" as I went through the same search. I haven't had a chance to hear the Pantheon, though owe Philip O'Hanlon a visit - pandemic got in the way unfortunately.

    If you have some criteria that you look for most in a speaker, that would be helpful for recommendations.
    Brinkmann Bardo w/ EMT HSD-006 cart, MSB Reference DAC --> Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> Fyne Audio F1-12

  8. #8

    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    AJR, as we have a similar taste in speakers, tomorrow I’m going to listen to the Vimberg Minos and Tondas, to get a feel for what Jeff Fritz is so fussed up about.

    I’ll let you know how it goes New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon. The matte black ones look the part.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  9. #9
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by GSOphile View Post
    AJR, with your bias toward bass, I'm surprised that Wilson, probably the Alexia II, isn't on your candidate list along with Rockport.
    Thanks for your message. I have no doubt Wilsons deserve to be on the list. But the aesthetic is a deal breaker for me. Same reason that Vivid Giya isn’t on the list.
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  10. #10
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    AJR, as we have a similar taste in speakers, tomorrow I’m going to listen to the Vimberg Minos and Tondas, to get a feel for what Jeff Fritz is so fussed up about.

    I’ll let you know how it goes New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon. The matte black ones look the part.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    If I can find a Lansche dealer in Singapore (haven’t tried yet) I will give them a try
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  11. #11
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Fair enough. I like Kuoppis' suggestion. In addition to Fritz' plug for the Tondas, Stereophile (JA) published a very favorable review of the Minos.

  12. #12
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    In my listens to Magico and Yg, I personally liked the Magico better. I never had a same room/equipment comparison. From reviews and comments seems Yg can be a challenge to set up correctly in a room.

    I only heard Gryphon with their speakers once, the sound was very good with excellent imaging.

    I only heard Vimberg once and I loved it, very much the Tidal sound.

    I believe synergy will be a factor, I'm sure your Gryphon could drive anything, it's just will it sound good with each of the brands, will they compliment one another.
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
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  13. #13

    New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by AJR View Post
    If I can find a Lansche dealer in Singapore (haven’t tried yet) I will give them a try
    XAudio in Bukit Timah carries Lansche (as well as Vivid Giya New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon). They used to have the 4.2 and 3.1 on demo. Ask for Swee.

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  14. #14
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Would I be wrong asking why as already having Gryphon electronics looking further then Pantheons as they I assume would be a perfect match?
    LS: Vienna Acoustics Klimt "The Music"
    PowerAmp: Nagra VPA
    PreAmp: Tobian Soundsystems SC12
    DAC: LampizatOr Horizon
    Server: LDMS Maximus Music Server
    CDT: CH Precison D1
    Switch: Edison Creation Silent OCXO Extreme, FiberBox
    Power: LampizatOr Kraftwerk 10
    Cabling: Signal Projects loom

  15. #15
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    certainly 4 excellent speaker.
    gryphon will match gryphon,
    yg might be right for your room hight,
    rockport the greatest bass,
    the m3 is the m3, the best looking by far
    however, since all those 4 speakers are on the market for a couple of years and mk2 does always come, for me it would all depend on the dramatic deal you can get.
    and, while you are not buying to sell them....that day will come as well in a couple of years and my guess is that the m3 will hold value the best and also the easiest to sell. (old monsters = very low cash)

  16. #16
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    ...or he could buy my Q3 for a bargain.
    Speakers: Magico M3, ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso stack | Amplification: Halcro |
    Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma | Rack: YG Acoustics Rack 1.8
    | Source: Kaleidescape Premiere (4 x 6TB) | Power: Shunyata Typhon-QR, Everest and Denali

  17. #17
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by brodricj View Post
    ...or he could buy my Q3 for a bargain.
    Wow, you still have the Q3's, saw them on ebay for quite some time. Great speaker but although "probably" a bargain, still a considerable amount for many.

    Have you tried exchanging them with the M3's after they were run in ? just interested in the difference between them.

    Sorry for the off topic
    Moon 700i V2, YG Acoustics Hailey, Aurender N10, dCS Rossini, Oppo BDP103D (audiopraise board), Ansuz Mainz 8 D2

  18. #18
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithR View Post
    AJR, you can see writeups of most of the brands you're hearing on my huge speaker thread "elsewhere" as I went through the same search. I haven't had a chance to hear the Pantheon, though owe Philip O'Hanlon a visit - pandemic got in the way unfortunately.

    If you have some criteria that you look for most in a speaker, that would be helpful for recommendations.
    Keith, thank you I tried to articulate my requirements. Let me try again:
    - must be neutral (Gryphon amps are slightly coloured as they are “rich”, so I want speakers that delivers deliver that richness)
    - mid range must be musical
    - must go deeper than the S3 Mk2 bass (which I appreciate and love)
    - this is probably the most important point: my room is medium size (doubles up as TV room) and so footprint is an issue. Am currently considering the physical dimensions of these speakers.
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  19. #19
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    And of course, with this budget at stake, I will listen to all these amps in due course. The purpose of this thread is to stress test this forum’s views at a general level
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  20. #20

    New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    So AJR, I gave the Vimberg Mino a listen.

    - pros: very good resolution, had a lots of bass, very good imaging, they love all the audiophile stuff: Stimela drum layers, Diana Krall etc.
    - cons: I found that the treble sticked out even of the center image quite a bit, bass was there in abundance but I felt it was a bit bloated (three small bass drivers tuned to do the whole shebang resulted in a bit strained sound), rock was missing cohones a bit, old jazz sounded like old jazz (bad recordings)

    I would say they are excellent for analyzing stuff, but might not be idea for listening to all varieties of music. I will try to audition the larger Tondas in due course.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  21. #21
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Great report, thanks. Seems like you prefer your Lansche 😊
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  22. #22
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    I looked into Lansche, with Nicoludio’s comment, and it seems your active speaker range is no more?
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  23. #23
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Just curious what the rest of the system was with the Vimberg?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    So AJR, I gave the Vimberg Mino a listen.

    - pros: very good resolution, had a lots of bass, very good imaging, they love all the audiophile stuff: Stimela drum layers, Diana Krall etc.
    - cons: I found that the treble sticked out even of the center image quite a bit, bass was there in abundance but I felt it was a bit bloated (three small bass drivers tuned to do the whole shebang resulted in a bit strained sound), rock was missing cohones a bit, old jazz sounded like old jazz (bad recordings)

    I would say they are excellent for analyzing stuff, but might not be idea for listening to all varieties of music. I will try to audition the larger Tondas in due course.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB, Esoteric N05xd
    Mark Levinson #526, 534 & JBL 4367's
    Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
    Clarus Concerto & their Crimson cables

    HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
    SVS PC13 Ultra
    Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
    Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP
    Parasound P6, MBL 8006b, Artisan speakers/subwoofer

  24. #24

    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by AJR View Post
    I looked into Lansche, with Nicoludio’s comment, and it seems your active speaker range is no more?
    Yes and no. The semi-actives I have Lansche does not offer anymore, which is a pity. But of course there’s a cost to it.

    However, now he offer his own external bass amps for the low-end to take care of the bi-amping.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  25. #25

    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    Just curious what the rest of the system was with the Vimberg?
    I don’t remember all the components, as I was not familiar with all the manufacturers. But the DAC was a Rockna Lightwave. Quite interesting ladder DAC.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  26. #26
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Ah. Ok. But I (assume) that the Lansche give you something more than your S3s and my assumption is bass?
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  27. #27
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    It can’t be the mids?!
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  28. #28

    New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by AJR View Post
    Ah. Ok. But I (assume) that the Lansche give you something more than your S3s and my assumption is bass?
    Where the Lansche 4.2 excels compared to the Magico S3 mk2s:
    - the highs - the Corona tweeter is special. Extreme resolution (up to 150 kHz) w/o any harshness or sticking out. They produce really fast and airy highs.
    - the bass - 4x 10” aluminum woofers powered by 2x 1200W, and reaching down to 15 Hz leaves little to desire in the low-end department.
    - bi-amping - while the Soulution could drive everything without any problem, being relieved of the bass duties removes that impedance difference between the bass and mid/ high drivers, and gives the amp to operate more effortlessly (as a matter of fact also positive impact on the mids).


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  29. #29
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    Where the Lansche 4.2 excels compared to the Magico S3 mk2s:
    - the highs - the Corona tweeter is special. Extreme resolution (up to 150 kHz) w/o any harshness or sticking out. They produce really fast and airy highs.
    - the bass - 4x 10” aluminum woofers powered by 2x 1200W, and reaching down to 15 Hz leaves little to desire in the low-end department.
    - bi-amping - while the Soulution could drive everything without any problem, being relieved of the bass duties removes that impedance difference between the bass and mid/ high drivers, and gives the amp to operate more effortlessly (as a matter of fact also positive impact on the mids).


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    What is the crossover point for the plasma tweeter?

  30. #30

    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzie View Post
    What is the crossover point for the plasma tweeter?
    I don’t remember, but I’m sure it’s somewhere in the thread I posted about the Lansches when I bought them.

    The Corona freq. range is 1.5 kHz - 150 kHz. Both bass and treble crossover points are also adjustable based on your preferences.


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  31. #31
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    Where the Lansche 4.2 excels compared to the Magico S3 mk2s:
    - the highs - the Corona tweeter is special. Extreme resolution (up to 150 kHz) w/o any harshness or sticking out. They produce really fast and airy highs.
    - the bass - 4x 10” aluminum woofers powered by 2x 1200W, and reaching down to 15 Hz leaves little to desire in the low-end department.
    - bi-amping - while the Soulution could drive everything without any problem, being relieved of the bass duties removes that impedance difference between the bass and mid/ high drivers, and gives the amp to operate more effortlessly (as a matter of fact also positive impact on the mids).


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    You sold me on the bass but with no compromise on the higher frequencies
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  32. #32
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by AJR View Post
    You sold me on the bass but with no compromise on the higher frequencies
    You should read some of the designer criticism of powered bass on TAS latest Loudspeaker Designer Roundtable. It is not a free lunch, far from it.

  33. #33

    New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by LVB View Post
    You should read some of the designer criticism of powered bass on TAS latest Loudspeaker Designer Roundtable. It is not a free lunch, far from it.
    This is interesting, what does the “designer criticism” say?

    I mean, there are lots of “designers” who swear by it. Technically it is obvious, that having a single amp driving all drivers puts a strain on the amp. This is, as they have to bridge huge impedance differences between the drivers. Of course amps can do it, it’s just associated with loss in dynamics and fidelity.


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  34. #34
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    This is interesting, what does the “designer criticism” say?

    I mean, there are lots of “designers” who swear by it. Technically it is obvious, that having a single amp driving all drivers puts a strain on the amp. This is, as they have to bridge huge impedance differences between the drivers. Of course amps can do it, it’s just associated with loss in dynamics and fidelity.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    It’s about the steep delay introduce to the bass section only. It makes good phase integration between the bass and the rest of the speakers impossible.

  35. #35

    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by LVB View Post
    It’s about the steep delay introduce to the bass section only. It makes good phase integration between the bass and the rest of the speakers impossible.
    Don’t understand what you mean. Could you please elaborate?


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  36. #36
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    Don’t understand what you mean. Could you please elaborate?


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    Michael Børresen:
    “If you go DSP, you must go fully DSP, because you have a 12–14mS delay through the DSP processor, so using DSP for bass and bass room-adaption in a passive speaker system is for me out of the question.”

    BTW, analog active circuitry also introduces delay, perhaps not as bad, but still a compromise. So you either do fully active or fully passive. No hybrid.

  37. #37

    New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by LVB View Post
    Michael Børresen:
    “If you go DSP, you must go fully DSP, because you have a 12–14mS delay through the DSP processor, so using DSP for bass and bass room-adaption in a passive speaker system is for me out of the question.”

    BTW, analog active circuitry also introduces delay, perhaps not as bad, but still a compromise. So you either do fully active or fully passive. No hybrid.
    Firstly, Michael Borresen is known to design and produce prohibitively expensive speakers with tremendous bass issues. Pretty much the entire Raidho range was a bass disaster, literally impossible to control in-room. Therefore, I would not take his word for anything related to bass reproduction.

    Secondly, not a first: no data, no facts, no science - just hearsay. Unfortunately, the comment is also a bit nonsensical in the sense that the Lansche speakers actually do not have any DSP. Maybe semi-knowledge here, more than understanding, quoting “designers” without a clear concept what those might be referring to. And interestingly enough, you are arguing that pretty much no sub can actually improve the sound.

    Thirdly, there are, however, manufacturers producing some of the world’s best speaker systems, like e.g. the Living Voice Vox Olympian and Palladian, who demonstrate how well a powered bass can actually work. Have heard them in Munich, and they’re fantastic.


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  38. #38
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    Firstly, Michael Borresen is known to design and produce prohibitively expensive speakers with tremendous bass issues. Pretty much the entire Raidho range was a bass disaster, literally impossible to control in-room. Therefore, I would not take his word for anything related to bass reproduction.

    Secondly, not a first: no data, no facts, no science - just hearsay. Unfortunately, the comment is also a bit nonsensical in the sense that the Lansche speakers actually do not have any DSP. Maybe semi-knowledge here, more than understanding, quoting “designers” without a clear concept what those might be referring to. And interestingly enough, you are arguing that pretty much no sub can actually improve the sound.

    Thirdly, there are, however, manufacturers producing some of the world’s best speaker systems, like e.g. the Living Voice Vox Olympian and Palladian, who demonstrate how well a powered bass can actually work. Have heard them in Munich, and they’re fantastic.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

    These are basic concepts, Michael Borresen did not invent any of this. If you don’t understand the concept of delay and how it relates to phase, I can’t help you.
    BTW, subs are notoriously difficult to integrate, and that is precisely the reason. They do have the benefit of placement choice, which can help mitigate the issue. You do not have that in one fixed box.

  39. #39

    New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by LVB View Post
    These are basic concepts, Michael Borresen did not invent any of this. If you don’t understand the concept of delay and how it relates to phase, I can’t help you.
    BTW, subs are notoriously difficult to integrate, and that is precisely the reason. They do have the benefit of placement choice, which can help mitigate the issue. You do not have that in one fixed box.
    Do understand, but don’t agree.

    Also, you say analog circuitry also introduces delay, how are those different from any crossover? Then every crossover should introduce delay.

    If it would be that simple, Borresen speakers would surely be perfect. Unfortunately they are far from it.

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  40. #40
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Have you ever listened to systems that have an active sub integrated in them? And which ones and where? There are many out there now. It's a growing trend.

    And having owned about every Raidho speaker while Michael was there. The only way I could get the bass to work in my room was because of subs counter acting his bass.

    That being said. Michael designed the Raidho speakers at a low volume level. So the extra bass he used was a loudness control. And it was great -- just not the volume that people in the USA listened to them. I still to this day love his work for low volume listening - basically background music.

    Quote Originally Posted by LVB View Post
    These are basic concepts, Michael Borresen did not invent any of this. If you don’t understand the concept of delay and how it relates to phase, I can’t help you.
    BTW, subs are notoriously difficult to integrate, and that is precisely the reason. They do have the benefit of placement choice, which can help mitigate the issue. You do not have that in one fixed box.
    Jock

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  41. #41
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by the professor View Post
    Have you ever listened to systems that have an active sub integrated in them? And which ones and where? There are many out there now. It's a growing trend.

    And having owned about every Raidho speaker while Michael was there. The only way I could get the bass to work in my room was because of subs counter acting his bass.

    That being said. Michael designed the Raidho speakers at a low volume level. So the extra bass he used was a loudness control. And it was great -- just not the volume that people in the USA listened to them. I still to this day love his work for low volume listening - basically background music.
    Once again, this is not about Michael Borresen, it is about the issues active bass presents, it is not a cure-all. And yes, I did hear a few such systems, most recently the Paradigm Persona. BTW, YG become much more enjoyable once they went all passive.

  42. #42

    New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by LVB View Post
    Once again, this is not about Michael Borresen, it is about the issues active bass presents, it is not a cure-all. And yes, I did hear a few such systems, most recently the Paradigm Persona. BTW, YG become much more enjoyable once they went all passive.
    I guess many people with active subs might not concur with your point of view.

    E.g. AGs improved their performance significantly with the XD generation.

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  43. #43
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Or maybe they do, but they just don't know it yet (aren't you auditioning new speakers )

    But seriously, I have not yet heard such a setup that I liked, or should I say that the best bass performances I have heard are not form such systems. YMMV!

  44. #44
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    the semi active models are not the best sellers i think

  45. #45
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by LVB View Post
    Once again, this is not about Michael Borresen, it is about the issues active bass presents, it is not a cure-all. And yes, I did hear a few such systems, most recently the Paradigm Persona. BTW, YG become much more enjoyable once they went all passive.
    Richard Vandersteen has successfully utilized active bass on his speakers for 40 years. I’ve had Apogee Duetta Signature, Aerial 10T, Magnepan 3.7, Revel Salon 2, Raidho D3 V2 and currently Vandersteen 7 Mk2 in my listening room. The bass was never truly right until I got the Vandersteen 7 Mk2 with its 11 band equalization and adjustable gain and Q curve.

    Ken
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    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpinist View Post
    Richard Vandersteen has successfully utilized active bass on his speakers for 40 years. I’ve had Apogee Duetta Signature, Aerial 10T, Magnepan 3.7, Revel Salon 2, Raidho D3 V2 and currently Vandersteen 7 Mk2 in my listening room. The bass was never truly right until I got the Vandersteen 7 Mk2 with its 11 band equalization and adjustable gain and Q curve.

    Ken
    Doesn't the Vandersteen come with a line-level high-pass filter, which needs to be inserted in front of the main amplifier?
    If so, that will make it (almost) a bi-amping active setup (smaller delay, if any, and much better integration). It is a completely different proposition.

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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by LVB View Post
    Doesn't the Vandersteen come with a line-level high-pass filter, which needs to be inserted in front of the main amplifier?
    If so, that will make it (almost) a bi-amping active setup (smaller delay, if any, and much better integration). It is a completely different proposition.
    Yes, the Vandersteen Mk2 utilize a high pass filter and are bi-amped. Each speaker has a 400 watt amplifier for twin 12 inch subwoofers. It is a concept that works extremely well.

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  48. #48

    New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by LVB View Post
    Doesn't the Vandersteen come with a line-level high-pass filter, which needs to be inserted in front of the main amplifier?
    If so, that will make it (almost) a bi-amping active setup (smaller delay, if any, and much better integration). It is a completely different proposition.
    I’m confused. My point about a separately powered low-end was bi-amping. You didn’t seem to like that, now you do? New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    The Lansches also do have double 10” woofers and a 1200 W power section each with a high pass filter. Similar concept, works equally well.

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  49. #49

    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by u-sound View Post
    the semi active models are not the best sellers i think
    AG only have semi-active models.


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    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Brinkmann Edison mk2 phono + RöNT II Tube PS/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist mk2/ Audionet Humboldt/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Kharma DB9-S 1.1 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata Alpha power (HC, Analogue, Digital)/ Finite Elemente Pagode Rack/ Stillpoints Ultra SS/ Vicoustic panels + Stillpoints Aperture II.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  50. #50
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    lachen / sz
    Posts
    1,061

    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    wasnt really speaking about AG.
    are you skipping the lansches?

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