New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

**Kuoppis** · September 3, 2020, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by u-sound

wasnt really speaking about AG.
are you skipping the lansches?

Does it sound to you like Alpinist is planning on skipping the Vandersteens and I the Lansches?

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**u-sound** · September 3, 2020, 01:03 AM

did i ask alpinist whether he wants to skip the vandersteens?

**Kuoppis** · September 3, 2020, 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by u-sound

wasnt really speaking about AG.
are you skipping the lansches?

Just highlighting the limitation of your blanket statement:

Originally Posted by u-sound

the semi active models are not the best sellers i think

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

AG only have semi-active models.

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**u-sound** · September 3, 2020, 06:43 AM

looks like you turned a thought into a statement and on that way introduced a limitation as well

**the professor** · September 3, 2020, 07:58 AM

LOL --- seems like you are sensitive. I apologize.

Yes I know this has nothing to do with Michael. You brought him up and I responded with my experience.

Originally Posted by LVB

Once again, this is not about Michael Borresen, it is about the issues active bass presents, it is not a cure-all. And yes, I did hear a few such systems, most recently the Paradigm Persona. BTW, YG become much more enjoyable once they went all passive.

**Jim Smith** · September 3, 2020, 11:56 AM

IME with voicing 3 of these models (no Gryphon yet) in systems to work best in the owners' rooms, without pointing out potential negatives, I have found the Magicos to consistently be more musically involving. This is stated as simply my observations (and yes, personal taste), not as some debatable fact.

**AJR** · September 3, 2020, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by KeithR

AJR, you can see writeups of most of the brands you're hearing on my huge speaker thread "elsewhere" as I went through the same search. I haven't had a chance to hear the Pantheon, though owe Philip O'Hanlon a visit - pandemic got in the way unfortunately.

If you have some criteria that you look for most in a speaker, that would be helpful for recommendations.

Thanks Keith. I will check it out. I think I have given my best explanation of my criteria. Although having thought about it some more, given that my music ‘room’ doubles up as my lounge, a small footprint is probably an important variable.

**AJR** · September 3, 2020, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Jim Smith

IME with voicing all of these models, without pointing out potential negatives, I have found the Magicos to consistently be more musically involving. This is stated as simply my observations (and yes, personal taste), not as some debatable fact.

Jim, as you taught me, probably what I should focus on is the acoustics in my room.

**LVB** · September 3, 2020, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

I’m confused. My point about a separately powered low-end was bi-amping. You didn’t seem to like that, now you do?

New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

The Lansches also do have double 10” woofers and a 1200 W power section each with a high pass filter. Similar concept, works equally well.

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Maybe you are confused. These speakers "powered bass" portion is described as "powered subs." Lansche describes this line as "semi active." Nowhere have I found a word about a high pass active filter. Are you sure these speakers come with one (you know, you would put this in-front of your main amplifier, not the power subs

)?

**AJR** · September 3, 2020, 01:42 PM

Have enjoyed this debate, but since I have no active speakers on my shortlist (was interested in Kuoppis’s Lansche but they do not make any more, so ruled out), maybe you blokes can get a room (

). Am surprised at the lack of passion for the 4 different brands I proposed. I will solve by listening to them all.

**Kuoppis** · September 3, 2020, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by LVB

Maybe you are confused. These speakers "powered bass" portion is described as "powered subs." Lansche describes this line as "semi active." Nowhere have I found a word about a high pass active filter. Are you sure these speakers come with one (you know, you would put this in-front of your main amplifier, not the power subs

)?

Had I known you’re so sensitive, I would would have treaded more carefully.

I must apologize, don’t want you to be unhappy.

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**u-sound** · September 3, 2020, 02:22 PM

i got no more speakers btw, thats why i might sound a bit dry

**LVB** · September 3, 2020, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

Had I known you’re so sensitive, I would would have treaded more carefully.

I must apologize, don’t want you to be unhappy.

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Sensitive to nonsense, for sure, but I hope that now you at least know what you bought

**Kuoppis** · September 4, 2020, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by LVB

Sensitive to nonsense, for sure, but I hope that now you at least know what you bought

Apparently you have no clear understanding of what you are talking about. Just blabbering something picked up from a 3rd party source.

Read and try to learn. Just kidding, that would be hopeless. You can’t follow the maths anyway.

High-pass filter - Wikipedia

It’s just your insinuations are a bit nonsensical. Passing all frequencies to the sub would lead to a sound degradation. Therefore a high pass filter is used to filter out frequencies not to be passed to the sub, it does not matter where it sits. But you have made it abundantly clear you don’t understand that.

For this reason Lansche calls its concept a 2,5-way speaker, rather than 3-way.

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**Mr Peabody** · September 4, 2020, 03:48 PM

Jim and myself I thought showed a clear bias toward Magico. You are shopping out of my league but they would be at the top of my list. I would definitely audition the Gryphon speakers before making a decision, the all Gryphon system really had some synergy going on, turntable was the source and as stated some first class imaging displayed.

My experience with Vimberg was much more positive than posted here but I have not heard them or Tidal play anything complex or close to Rock.

I didn't really care for Yg until a couple years ago I heard an audition that sounded good. Wish I could remember the electronics. With that being said, just personal taste, wouldn't be on my list.

No Rockport experience.

You wanted to stay with the four, but, hey, you could get a set of JBL Everest's.

Originally Posted by AJR

Have enjoyed this debate, but since I have no active speakers on my shortlist (was interested in Kuoppis’s Lansche but they do not make any more, so ruled out), maybe you blokes can get a room (

). Am surprised at the lack of passion for the 4 different brands I proposed. I will solve by listening to them all.

**u-sound** · September 4, 2020, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by AJR

Have enjoyed this debate, but since I have no active speakers on my shortlist (was interested in Kuoppis’s Lansche but they do not make any more, so ruled out), maybe you blokes can get a room (

). Am surprised at the lack of passion for the 4 different brands I proposed. I will solve by listening to them all.

you could buy a 2nd hand lansche
Lansche 4.2 (4537164101) | Gebrauchtgerat | Lautsprecher, Kopfhorer | Angebot auf audio-markt.de

**LVB** · September 4, 2020, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

Apparently you have no clear understanding of what you are talking about. Just blabbering something picked up from a 3rd party source.

Read and try to learn. Just kidding, that would be hopeless. You can’t follow the maths anyway.

High-pass filter - Wikipedia

It’s just your insinuations are a bit nonsensical. Passing all frequencies to the sub would lead to a sound degradation. Therefore a high pass filter is used to filter out frequencies not to be passed to the sub, it does not matter where it sits. But you have made it abundantly clear you don’t understand that.

For this reason Lansche calls its concept a 2,5-way speaker, rather than 3-way.

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It is the other way around geniuses “A high-pass filter (HPF) is an electronic filter that passes signals with a frequency higher than a certain cutoff frequency.”
This should even make sense to you; "high–pass", you know, like "pass the highs"? And actually that is why they call it a 2.5 way, due to the fact that it does not even have a passive high-pass on the mid-bass. This speaker is even more compromised then I thought

**Alpinist** · September 4, 2020, 05:37 PM

You can’t go wrong with either the Magico M3 or my personal favorite, the YG Acoustics Sonja 2.2. They are both terrific loudspeakers. I really enjoyed the Sonja 2.2 in the MSB room when they used them with the Select 2 DAC and M204 monoblocks. One of my all-time favorite show rooms.

Best,
Ken

**u-sound** · September 4, 2020, 05:43 PM

yes but i bet the rockports do much more amazing bass.
again, i think all of them are excellent and due to the fact they all are years on the market it would depend on the deal mainly.
my wife would kill me for the gryphons in the livingroom (had to remove the alexias...no choice!!)

**Kuoppis** · September 5, 2020, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by LVB

It is the other way around geniuses “A high-pass filter (HPF) is an electronic filter that passes signals with a frequency higher than a certain cutoff frequency.”
This should even make sense to you; "high–pass", you know, like "pass the highs"? And actually that is why they call it a 2.5 way, due to the fact that it does not even have a passive high-pass on the mid-bass. This speaker is even more compromised then I thought

And that did not occur to you in case of the Vandersteens, where you praised the external high pass filter?

A high pass and a low pass filter does a similar thing as the crossover, regulating which frequencies are played by which driver. It’s not a difficult concept.

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**Kuoppis** · September 5, 2020, 12:26 AM

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

My experience with Vimberg was much more positive than posted here but I have not heard them or Tidal play anything complex or close to Rock.

Don’t get me wrong, the Vimberg Mino was not bad at all. All views are based on personal preferences.

What sounds bloated or strained in the bass for one person might be just right for another. And where the highs stick out in one view, another person just hears all the details. Some people pay a lot of money for Wilsons, others say they sound colored. Again others swear by Magico, while some think they sound cold.

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**Kuoppis** · September 5, 2020, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by u-sound

you could buy a 2nd hand lansche
Lansche 4.2 (4537164101) | Gebrauchtgerat | Lautsprecher, Kopfhorer | Angebot auf audio-markt.de

I’m swopping gear regularly, for the fun of it. And just to try out something new. Often I also just gauge the market to check what kind of offers I could get.

The Magico S3 mk2 I sold after 2,5 years. That does not mean they were bad speakers, not at all. Just got a good offer, and so I sold them.

I’m not really in the market for new speakers, but I could try some Giyas or Estelons for a change (Mike has posted some nice videos). The initial motivation to check offers were the Vimbergs, but so far at least the Mino is not for me. Maybe I’ll get totally excited about the Tondas and will post new pictures soon, who knows? I don’t

.

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**Kuoppis** · September 5, 2020, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by u-sound

my wife would kill me for the gryphons in the livingroom (had to remove the alexias...no choice!!)

A bit of a pussycat, aren’t you

? Would it not make sense to check beforehand, before putting five figures into a component?

I could sell you some second hand Lansches for list price... between friends...

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**Kuoppis** · September 5, 2020, 04:55 AM

AJR, this might sound like a funny question, but have you considered the A5s?

Of course the M series is more prestigious, but how much more do you really get vs. the A series? If I would still be interested in Magicos, I would check them out.

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**u-sound** · September 5, 2020, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

A bit of a pussycat, aren’t you

? Would it not make sense to check beforehand, before putting five figures into a component?

I could sell you some second hand Lansches for list price... between friends...

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yea i guess a real man would tell the wife to shut up. as for the living room, my family is the boss as a whole.
the alexias were amazing. a friend sold them to me way under the usual 2nd hand price and i would have bought them even just for reselling. it turned out they were too prominent in the room, too far off the frontwall for best sound.
as well, i listened much more time with the tunetots in the office.
my friend missed his alexias and now they are back there. bought it for the same price he sold them. everybody is happy and won some experience.
btw, between sissys

, we could trade the lansches against tunetot, i wouldnt tell you i popped the woofer and just pushed it back and you can hide the uncoherence of yours

**u-sound** · September 5, 2020, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

AJR, this might sound like a funny question, but have you considered the A5s?

Of course the M series is more prestigious, but how much more do you really get vs. the A series? If I would still be interested in Magicos, I would check them out.

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havent heard or seen them yet but i think they are some of the most interesting speakers.

**apdoc2004** · September 5, 2020, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

I’m swopping gear regularly, for the fun of it. And just to try out something new. Often I also just gauge the market to check what kind of offers I could get.

The Magico S3 mk2 I sold after 2,5 years. That does not mean they were bad speakers, not at all. Just got a good offer, and so I sold them.

I’m not really in the market for new speakers, but I could try some Giyas or Estelons for a change (Mike has posted some nice videos). The initial motivation to check offers were the Vimbergs, but so far at least the Mino is not for me. Maybe I’ll get totally excited about the Tondas and will post new pictures soon, who knows? I don’t

.

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Any reason you are not considering the Tidals? Something like the Contrivas might be a sonic upgrade over the Vimbergs though I realize that they are significantly more expensive.
Anshul

**Jim Smith** · September 5, 2020, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by apdoc2004

Any reason you are not considering the Tidals? Something like the Contrivas might be a sonic upgrade over the Vimbergs though I realize that they are significantly more expensive.
Anshul

About two weeks ago, I voiced a client's system in N.C. that had the entry level Tidals.

We achieved outstanding musical involvement.

If I had to pick a problem with these Tidals, I am actually not aware of any to speak of. Highly recommended (unfortunately, they are priced accordingly).

**LVB** · September 5, 2020, 11:49 AM

M3, hands down. Unless you want to start a speakers merry-go-round, like some people here

**Kuoppis** · September 5, 2020, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by apdoc2004

Any reason you are not considering the Tidals? Something like the Contrivas might be a sonic upgrade over the Vimbergs though I realize that they are significantly more expensive.
Anshul

Anshul, my only reservations against Tidal would be the high price, and that I just have not heard them enough. Their reputation is stellar, Jim’s comment only adds to it.

Based on my auditioning comments, the dealer I listened to the Vimbergs at, also suggested I should check out Tidals. In his view Tidals should be more neutral and more coherent in general.

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**a.wayne** · September 5, 2020, 12:35 PM

M3 is the sweet spot of the magico line IMO ...

**PeterA** · September 5, 2020, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Smith

IME with voicing 3 of these models (no Gryphon yet) in systems to work best in the owners' rooms, without pointing out potential negatives, I have found the Magicos to consistently be more musically involving. This is stated as simply my observations (and yes, personal taste), not as some debatable fact.

Jim, could you write a bit more about the M3's positive attributes, or what you heard from the system once you were finished voicing it? I am also curious about what amplifier the client is using with the M3s. Thanks.

**brodricj** · September 5, 2020, 08:32 PM

I own M3. I didn't audition them, I just bought them. First time I saw a pair of M3 is when they arrived on my doorstep from the factory. I'm quite happy with them. I don't see any point in auditioning speakers, every speaker demo I've seen at a HiFi dealer has been underwhelming. Sometimes you just need to take a leap of faith, and with the M3 you can't go wrong (subject to the constraints of the room).

**the professor** · September 5, 2020, 08:52 PM

I bought my M2s the same way. I had heard the M3s and M6s - so I was def familiar with the M sound.

Originally Posted by brodricj

I own M3. I didn't audition them, I just bought them. First time I saw a pair of M3 is when they arrived on my doorstep from the factory. I'm quite happy with them. I don't see any point in auditioning speakers, every speaker demo I've seen at a HiFi dealer has been underwhelming. Sometimes you just need to take a leap of faith, and with the M3 you can't go wrong (subject to the constraints of the room).

**Mr Peabody** · September 6, 2020, 10:44 AM

Definitely realize that, not to mention room and electronics.

On the Tidal system I heard I didn't care about accurate, the piano was so sweet I was hypnotized. But I listen to a lot of different music with emphasis on Rock, I wish on an audition I could convince Doug to play something with some energy. I did hear Brian play his Tidal with Bricasti electronics, that was great as well and did show the Tidal speakers were some versatile. Of course, it's not like I could run out and buy Tidal anyway

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

Don’t get me wrong, the Vimberg Mino was not bad at all. All views are based on personal preferences.

What sounds bloated or strained in the bass for one person might be just right for another. And where the highs stick out in one view, another person just hears all the details. Some people pay a lot of money for Wilsons, others say they sound colored. Again others swear by Magico, while some think they sound cold.

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**Jim Smith** · September 6, 2020, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by PeterA

Jim, could you write a bit more about the M3's positive attributes, or what you heard from the system once you were finished voicing it? I am also curious about what amplifier the client is using with the M3s. Thanks.

Peter,

Once I become intimately involved in the RoomPlay set-up music - in the music from tracks that I have probably played well over a thousand times, I'm done.

This happened more easily with the Magicos, perhaps because they were a bit more agile, tuneful, & dynamic, yet remaining more cohesive. The Magicos disappeared more easily as well, thereby assisting with the vital Presence effect.

The amps were D-Agostinos & another pair were CATs.

Both of the other speakers ended up with a much better performance than at the beginning. I was satisfied with what they delivered vs. how they performed at first.

As you know, I am there to make what the owner already has to perfrom at a much higher level. So I don't recommend product changes...

IMO, there's just something magical about those Magicos...

**AJR** · September 7, 2020, 05:56 AM

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

AJR, this might sound like a funny question, but have you considered the A5s?

Of course the M series is more prestigious, but how much more do you really get vs. the A series? If I would still be interested in Magicos, I would check them out.

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Interesting idea. I would be interested to know how the bass compares to the M3. Anyone?

**the professor** · September 7, 2020, 11:56 AM

The M series is more refined, but the A series has a lot of the same toe tapping characteristics as the M series.

Unless you have a really big room (like Huge) - the M2s are the way to go. They take the M6 tech in a much smaller and a lot less expensive package. They are in the same family as the M3s but IMO do it even better at a lesser cost.

**AJR** · September 7, 2020, 01:38 PM

So you are saying that (In my medium-size room) I will enjoy the bass of the M2s more than the M3s or the A5s?

**AJR** · September 7, 2020, 01:47 PM

Perhaps an ignorant question, but how is it possible that the 2x 7” woofers in the M2s kick ass when the M3s have 3x 7” woofers and the S3s have 2x 9” and the A5s have 3x 9” (!)? Genuinely curious. NB - am not talking overall coherence. I am talking bass.

**AJR** · September 7, 2020, 02:11 PM

Ah, you might be saying that the M2 delivers in it’s price point.

**u-sound** · September 7, 2020, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by AJR

I am talking bass.

Magico M2s, 2 Magico Q-Sub 15s,

the professor is talking bass too

**the professor** · September 7, 2020, 02:21 PM

In my opinion - yes

Originally Posted by AJR

So you are saying that (In my medium-size room) I will enjoy the bass of the M2s more than the M3s or the A5s?

**the professor** · September 7, 2020, 02:23 PM

Even when I turn the subs off - the M2s bass kicks.

**the professor** · September 7, 2020, 02:24 PM

Ultimately - please listen to them if you can and decide which you prefer.

**AJR** · September 7, 2020, 02:25 PM

That is good enough for me! Still don’t understand how 2x 7” drivers achieve that, but ok!

**AJR** · September 7, 2020, 02:29 PM

Jock - did you try the M3s? Sorry if I missed that. If anyone on this thread has compared the two fairly, will the the M3s give more bass or will the more tech advanced M2s with their smaller surface woofer area deliver. Maybe the M3s but them it is a price point?

**AJR** · September 7, 2020, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by the professor

Ultimately - please listen to them if you can and decide which you prefer.

Not a chance I will be able to test them both. Would need to live close to Mike to even have a possibility of that!

**NorthStar** · September 7, 2020, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by AJR

Not a chance I will be able to test them both. Would need to live close to Mike to even have a possibility of that!

Singapore is a safer place than Florida right now.

**the professor** · September 7, 2020, 02:50 PM

I've heard the M3s in a couple different rooms so I feel I know what they can do. I have also listened to the M2s in my room and also in show rooms. However, I have never listened to the M2s and M3s in the same room. If you listen at concert levels or more - then there is no doubt the M3s will play louder. But not more than 1-2db. 50% more surface area in the woofer gives you 1-2 db more sound pressure. Twice the surface area gives you a max of 3db more, so obviously 50% more is less than that.

Both have amazing control of the bass.

Originally Posted by AJR

Jock - did you try the M3s? Sorry if I missed that. If anyone on this thread has compared the two fairly, will the the M3s give more bass or will the more tech advanced M2s with their smaller surface woofer area deliver. Maybe the M3s but them it is a price point?

Thread: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon