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  1. #101
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    True, but brings me no closer to testing speakers
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  2. #102
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    most likely m3 will go down a little deeper than m2, however, m2, m3 or your s3mk2 have similar level of dynamik and bass. the improvement is elsewhere.
    if you want to upgrade the bass from your s3mk2 significantly, (and more slam), you need another solution. it could be all about that you would enjoy bass from ported speaker better than from sealed ones.
    samsung soundbar & subs

  3. #103
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    i just realize about your amplification, the same gryphons as mike has in his store.
    the synergy between the gryphons and your upcoming speakers is way more important than the quality/brand/type.
    you would probably doing very well following his observations what type of speakers is doing well with the gryphons.
    samsung soundbar & subs

  4. #104

    New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by AJR View Post
    Perhaps an ignorant question, but how is it possible that the 2x 7” woofers in the M2s kick ass when the M3s have 3x 7” woofers and the S3s have 2x 9” and the A5s have 3x 9” (!)? Genuinely curious. NB - am not talking overall coherence. I am talking bass.
    Someone else will probably answer your question better, but that was exactly my point about the Vimberg Minos. With its 6.6” woofers, even if there are three of them, it does not produce natural full range bass. There was plenty of bass, but it sounded constrained.

    I know you like Electronica, and with three 9” woofers in the A5 it should be delivering plenty of what you’re looking for.

    What I am however not saying, is that the M2 and M3 are not excellent, and likely more refined. I’m just a bit surprised how favorably the A3s has been reviewed. And the A5s should be topping them.

    Talking specs, M2s/ M3s and QSubs are for sure the ultimate solution, but they come at a price. Looking into the A5s as a joker, at a price a little bit more than one Q-Sub, might be interesting.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Soulution 520 preamp with phono/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist MK II/ Soulution 511/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Semi-active Lansche Audio 4.2 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ 2x Audioquest Thunder HD for LS/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata AlphaHC (x2)+Alpha+Alpha Analogue+Alpha Digital/ Finite Elemente Pagode/ Stillpoints Ultra SS.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  5. #105
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by AJR View Post
    Perhaps an ignorant question, but how is it possible that the 2x 7” woofers in the M2s kick ass when the M3s have 3x 7” woofers and the S3s have 2x 9” and the A5s have 3x 9” (!)? Genuinely curious. NB - am not talking overall coherence. I am talking bass.
    I know Mike has been avoiding commenting on this thread but maybe he will comment on this question that is specific to Magico, namely a comparison of the quantity and quality of bass for the A5 vs. M2 and M3.

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases, Femto 33 Clock, Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  6. #106
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Magico’s are never about having the most bass, they are about having ample bass that’s very articulate. Following along bass lines with ease. There are other speakers that can give you more bass, albeit woofy woofy Bass. Bass that’s more about moving air than definition. There are other speakers on the market that also follow this philosophy of tight, controlled, defined bass and Magico Bass is right up there with the best in this category.

    The M3’s have bass and Bass weight. The M2’s have bass and slightly less bass weight, but their cabinet helps them disappear a bit more.. The A5 have plenty of bass, but it’s not at the level of an M2 or M3 in terms of weight or definition. The drivers, cabinet construction and crossover are just superior in the M series, as they should be. That being said, the A5 in its price range gives people a nice chunk of what you get from the S and M series.

    I’ve never listened to all three and wished for more bass. And none have ever given me a lick of trouble setting them up to get the best bass in the customers room.

    AJR will find the M3 bass considerably more impactful and weighty than his current S3’s.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

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  7. #107
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Terrific response, thanks Mike!

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases, Femto 33 Clock, Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  8. #108
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by AJR View Post
    Keith, thank you I tried to articulate my requirements. Let me try again:
    - must be neutral (Gryphon amps are slightly coloured as they are “rich”, so I want speakers that delivers deliver that richness)
    - mid range must be musical
    - must go deeper than the S3 Mk2 bass (which I appreciate and love)
    - this is probably the most important point: my room is medium size (doubles up as TV room) and so footprint is an issue. Am currently considering the physical dimensions of these speakers.
    I’d probably recommend Rockport with your preferences, which are musical and have the best bass I’ve heard - but form factor might be a concern. Andy Payor used Gryphon amps for years as well.

    The all Gryphon system is a warm, more chocolate type sound (at least on Mojo systems I’ve heard).

    Ps. Rockport bass has zero woof woof boominess
    Brinkmann Bardo w/ 47 Labs MC Bee cart, MSB Premier DAC --> Music First Baby Reference v2 --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> YG Acoustics Hailey 2.2

  9. #109
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Magico’s are never about having the most bass, they are about having ample bass that’s very articulate. Following along bass lines with ease. ..
    Mike is right with this observation. I have S-Sub and M3. With the S-Sub calibrated, turn off the main power amps so only the subwoofer is active and you'd be surprised how very little bass energy it outputs in the calibrated state. Because the M3 doesn't need any bass reinforcement.
    Speakers: Magico M3, Q3, ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso | Amplification: Halcro |
    Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma
    Most recent acquisition: YG Acoustics Rack 1.4

  10. #110
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithR View Post
    I’d probably recommend Rockport with your preferences, which are musical and have the best bass I’ve heard - but form factor might be a concern. Andy Payor used Gryphon amps for years as well.

    The all Gryphon system is a warm, more chocolate type sound (at least on Mojo systems I’ve heard).

    Ps. Rockport bass has zero woof woof boominess
    i did read many times the rockports do have some of the worlds best bass.
    there is some generalization from some people, rockport and wilson similary tuned, and magico and yg similar on the other side.
    unfortunately i was never able to listen to them. there is every well known brand here within 15 minutes drive around zürich....apart from rockport and gryphon. there was a big gryphon dealer but he stopped and noone seems to be fancy to overtake it.
    i d really like to listen to it after all the great comments. the amp makes the music!
    samsung soundbar & subs

  11. #111
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by brodricj View Post
    Mike is right with this observation. I have S-Sub and M3. With the S-Sub calibrated, turn off the main power amps so only the subwoofer is active and you'd be surprised how very little bass energy it outputs in the calibrated state. Because the M3 doesn't need any bass reinforcement.
    This might be one of the most interesting observations I have read.
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  12. #112
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Magico’s are never about having the most bass, they are about having ample bass that’s very articulate. Following along bass lines with ease. There are other speakers that can give you more bass, albeit woofy woofy Bass. Bass that’s more about moving air than definition. There are other speakers on the market that also follow this philosophy of tight, controlled, defined bass and Magico Bass is right up there with the best in this category.

    The M3’s have bass and Bass weight. The M2’s have bass and slightly less bass weight, but their cabinet helps them disappear a bit more.. The A5 have plenty of bass, but it’s not at the level of an M2 or M3 in terms of weight or definition. The drivers, cabinet construction and crossover are just superior in the M series, as they should be. That being said, the A5 in its price range gives people a nice chunk of what you get from the S and M series.

    I’ve never listened to all three and wished for more bass. And none have ever given me a lick of trouble setting them up to get the best bass in the customers room.

    AJR will find the M3 bass considerably more impactful and weighty than his current S3’s.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Amazing break-down. Thanks Mike
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  13. #113
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Have ruled out YG. Nice sound but doesn’t resonate with me. Will try Pantheon and Cygnus next.
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  14. #114
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Congrats on your progress in your journey!
    Jock

    If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters.

    ---------

    House: Naim ND555/2PS, Naim 552, Naim 500, Studer A80/Doshi V3, Magico M2s, 2 Magico Q-Sub 15s, Lumina IC/SC, Shunyata Everest and Omega PCs.

    Workshop: Naim ND555/2 PS, VAC Master Pre, VAC Sig 200iQ, Avant Garde Duo Mezzo XD, 2 Magico Q-Sub 15s, Shunyata IC/SC, Shunyata Typhon QR/Triton V3/Sigma PCs.

  15. #115

    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by AJR View Post
    Have ruled out YG. Nice sound but doesn’t resonate with me. Will try Pantheon and Cygnus next.
    Good call. Since founder and chief designer Yoav Geva is out, it is a little unclear how the company and its products will evolve.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    “Life’s too short to listen to bad audio.”

    Big rig: Brinkmann Taurus DD TT + 12.1 arm + Lyra Etna Lambda SL MC + HRS M3X2/ Cardas Clear Beyond phono/ Stillpoints LPI/ Soulution 520 preamp with phono/ Synology NAS with Roon + HD Plex linear PSU + Shunyata HD/ AQ Vodka RJ45 + Aqvox Network Switch SE + AQ Diamond RJ45 into DAC/ Brinkmann Nyquist MK II/ Soulution 511/ Cardas Clear Beyond ICs/ Semi-active Lansche Audio 4.2 LS/ Inakustik Reference LS 4004 AIR/ 2x Audioquest Thunder HD for LS/ Audioquest Niagara 5000/ Shunyata AlphaHC (x2)+Alpha+Alpha Analogue+Alpha Digital/ Finite Elemente Pagode/ Stillpoints Ultra SS.

    Small rig: Naim UnitiServe/ Curious USB/ Tidal/ Linn Klimax DS3/ Shunyata Power cable/ Pass Labs INT-60/ Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II/ HiD Diamond 8/ Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary/ Shunyata Venom EU7 & Venom 3 HD.

    HP rig: MacBookAir/ Tidal/ Auralic Gemini 2000/ Sbooster LPSU/ Audeze LCD-2 Classic + WyWires Red/ Shunyata HD/ Shunyata Hydra 2/ Shunyata Venom.

  16. #116
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by the professor View Post
    Congrats on your progress in your journey!
    It is a lot of fun! Was biased towards the M3s, but I can’t wait to demo the Rockports
    Digital: Innuos Zenith Mk3 Server + MSB Premier DAC with Powerbase
    Amp: Gryphon Pandora + Gryphon Antileon Evo Stereo
    Speakers: Magico S3 MkII
    Cables: MIT SL-Matrix 36 XLR interconnect cables + 70 speaker cables; AQ Diamond & Vodka ethernet cables
    Power: AQ Niagara 5000 + AQ Tornado power cables
    Headphones (travel): Sennheiser Momentum + Chord Mojo

  17. #117
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    IME, Rockports - without very careful set-up - can sound technically articulate, but musically boring...
    Small Green Computer; gigaFoil 4 Ethernet filter w/ Keces PS-3; Sonore ultraRendu; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Alpha & Sigma USBs; AQ Diamond USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Audioquest Diamond ethernet; Audioquest Diamond AES - 3M; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; PecanPi USB dac; Ayre Codex - updated; Topping D-90; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amplifier; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamplifier, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Wyred 4 Sound STP-750E Mk II amplifier w/Kimber TCX wiring & WBT binding posts; Quicksilver Mid Mono amplifiers w/Gold Lion KT77s, Joseph Audio Perspective 2 Graphenes; Symposium Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.

    www.getbettersound.com

  18. #118
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    The older Magicos were exactly that way for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Smith View Post
    IME, Rockports - without very careful set-up - can sound technically articulate, but musically boring...
    Jock

    If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters.

    ---------

    House: Naim ND555/2PS, Naim 552, Naim 500, Studer A80/Doshi V3, Magico M2s, 2 Magico Q-Sub 15s, Lumina IC/SC, Shunyata Everest and Omega PCs.

    Workshop: Naim ND555/2 PS, VAC Master Pre, VAC Sig 200iQ, Avant Garde Duo Mezzo XD, 2 Magico Q-Sub 15s, Shunyata IC/SC, Shunyata Typhon QR/Triton V3/Sigma PCs.

  19. #119
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuoppis View Post
    Good call. Since founder and chief designer Yoav Geva is out, it is a little unclear how the company and its products will evolve.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Still love the Sonja 2.2 and their synergy with the Select 2 DAC is off the charts but who knows what the future brings with Yoav departing.

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases, Femto 33 Clock, Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  20. #120
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    Re: New speakers: Magico M3 v Rockport Cygnus v YG Sonja 2.2 v Gryphon Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by the professor View Post
    The older Magicos were exactly that way for me.
    Agreed 100%
    Small Green Computer; gigaFoil 4 Ethernet filter w/ Keces PS-3; Sonore ultraRendu; MBP (3) - stripped down for music only; Shunyata Alpha & Sigma USBs; AQ Diamond USBs; ISO REGEN w/short Curious USB links; Berkeley Alpha USB; Audioquest Diamond ethernet; Audioquest Diamond AES - 3M; Schiit Yggdrasil - fully updated; PecanPi USB dac; Ayre Codex - updated; Topping D-90; Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amplifier; Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE-2 preamplifier, Quicksilver Mono 120 amps w/Tung-Sol KT150s; Wyred 4 Sound STP-750E Mk II amplifier w/Kimber TCX wiring & WBT binding posts; Quicksilver Mid Mono amplifiers w/Gold Lion KT77s, Joseph Audio Perspective 2 Graphenes; Symposium Platforms; REL S-812 subwoofers; Duelund DCA12GA speaker cables; AV Room Service EVPs, Stein Music Harmonizers, Duelund DCA16GA & 20GA ICs; Shunyata Denali 6000S/V2; Tripp Lite PCs; Wyred 4 Sound power cords; AudioDharma cable cooker; dedicated custom room; various GIK & ASC room treatments; etc.

    www.getbettersound.com

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