Thread: Magico M9

For me I know M9 is outstanding. I don't need to see or hear it for myself, or read about it. I just know. I didn't read the RH piece.

The new ground was the cone and cabinet construction using aluminium honeycomb lattice construction. The external crossover is also new, and that is now available as a new product you can buy alone and use with any other speaker. The new cone construction has already trickled down into the A5 drivers.

M9 MXO is 120Hz fixed, the purpose built version is 55Hz fixed. MXO is a modular card to motherboard design so enables additional filter topologies as an upgrade in the future. If the customer demand was there I'm sure they could build whatever XO point suits your purpose.

Originally Posted by Bobvin

Hmm, really thought this review of the M9s would have sparked at least a little bit of conversation? Is the M9 just so far out of reach people choose to ignore it? Even if it breaks new ground in many areas?

I suspect a $750K price, and two amps required for each speaker, eliminates a lot of buyers. No matter how good it is.

Originally Posted by Bobvin

Hmm, really thought this review of the M9s would have sparked at least a little bit of conversation? Is the M9 just so far out of reach people choose to ignore it? Even if it breaks new ground in many areas?

before i knew much about the M9 i was low test that it would be that great. and i had not had a really positive Magico listening experience ever where i loved them. i had liked them a few times but never connected. then last November i heard the Magico S5 Mk2's with a Q-Sub at a local audio show and was very impressed. and this event did open my mind to where the M9 might go. so maybe lack of serious Magico love holds back some from M9 excitement. Magico is a polarizing brand.

another factor is the marketplace is trending away from cones and boxes to some degree.

thirdly is, of course, the price of the M9 and what it requires to feed it, and the space it requires to be happy.

fourthly is no one has heard it. not been at shows. only at a few dealers. forum posters have not heard it, only serious customers. which sounds like is the plan going forward. so this situation is not likely to change......it's the plan.

right now how i feel is that the M9 is the top of the heap for cones and box speakers. and while the big Wilson Wamm and XVX are likely pretty good too, they don't interest me really, while if i could afford the M9 it might be my choice. it's likely doing things nothing else can do.

Harley getting excited by any product is never news. when did he not??? your expectation for "that" moving the needle is wishful thinking. what might move the needle would be for Alon to expose the M9 more. but i think their approach is right. the issue is sales, not hype. and most M9 intenders like that it is a bit mysterious, and hard to demo and acquire.

if they do another smaller model with all the same tech at half the price, that model will need to be widely exposed to get the higher sales volume.

I just got back from listening to the M9 speakers at Magico's headquarters, in their newly rebuilt listening room. I was really interested in hearing the M9 but also in finding out more about their new room's design.

In my opinion the room is a big improvement over their previous already outstanding room. The new design more closely aligns with what we've done in our own dedicated room, with acoustic treatments along all the walls and ceiling, and what are essentially two foot air gaps behind the surface you see in order to capture bass. They even "upgraded" the rug. The result is significantly reduced room interactions all the way down into the low bass region, so that what you are hearing is almost completely the speakers and electronics, instead of the other way around like it is in many rooms.

We listened to several tracks, some of them the same as what I had heard there before but in the previous room and with the Magico S5 MkII or A5 speakers. I remember one of these tracks from before, and on the M9 speakers the upper mid-range and treble sounded more realistic, crisper, and cleaner while also being very, very smooth. (I know, old memory and all that, but still.) The bass was super clean and articulate, and the full spectrum sounded exactly like what you imagine when you describe a speaker as effortless.

I also thought I would have needed to sit farther away than I actually was. But the drivers all blended perfectly well, and I was not hearing bass from below or the mid-range from above. The speakers completely disappeared and the soundstage was outstanding. I'm sure the room helped with some of that.

I also got a chance to see their Klippel NFS measurement rig. This automated device rotates a microphone 360° around the speaker, while also moving up and down, taking a burst measurement at both a near-field distance and then slightly farther away, in order to approximate the anechoic frequency response on-axis, off-axis, and the sound power. It's a very impressive piece of kit, that takes about 24 hours to complete a full measurement. You might have already seen the video they posted showing the M9 being measured.

Things will look kind of weird if I just dump all the photos into this post, so here's a link to the Imgur gallery: Magico M9 and Klippel NFS images.

I see they had Triton-15 in the corner. I'm surprised about that.

Originally Posted by brodricj

I see they had Triton-15 in the corner. I'm surprised about that.

I don't believe we were using the subwoofers, it's just they were there in the room.

Originally Posted by NekoAudio

I just got back from listening to the M9 speakers at Magico's headquarters, in their newly rebuilt listening room. I was really interested in hearing the M9 but also in finding out more about their new room's design.

In my opinion the room is a big improvement over their previous already outstanding room. The new design more closely aligns with what we've done in our own dedicated room, with acoustic treatments along all the walls and ceiling, and what are essentially two foot air gaps behind the surface you see in order to capture bass. They even "upgraded" the rug. The result is significantly reduced room interactions all the way down into the low bass region, so that what you are hearing is almost completely the speakers and electronics, instead of the other way around like it is in many rooms.

We listened to several tracks, some of them the same as what I had heard there before but in the previous room and with the Magico S5 MkII or A5 speakers. I remember one of these tracks from before, and on the M9 speakers the upper mid-range and treble sounded more realistic, crisper, and cleaner while also being very, very smooth. (I know, old memory and all that, but still.) The bass was super clean and articulate, and the full spectrum sounded exactly like what you imagine when you describe a speaker as effortless.

I also thought I would have needed to sit farther away than I actually was. But the drivers all blended perfectly well, and I was not hearing bass from below or the mid-range from above. The speakers completely disappeared and the soundstage was outstanding. I'm sure the room helped with some of that.

I also got a chance to see their Klippel NFS measurement rig. This automated device rotates a microphone 360° around the speaker, while also moving up and down, taking a burst measurement at both a near-field distance and then slightly farther away, in order to approximate the anechoic frequency response on-axis, off-axis, and the sound power. It's a very impressive piece of kit, that takes about 24 hours to complete a full measurement. You might have already seen the video they posted showing the M9 being measured.

Things will look kind of weird if I just dump all the photos into this post, so here's a link to the Imgur gallery: Magico M9 and Klippel NFS images.

Very cool! Thanks for sharing. I need to make a trip out there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Originally Posted by Spock

Can you talk a little more about this?
What is happening to the box speakers and conventional drivers?
What are the new trends?

understand i also wrote.....

right now how i feel is that the M9 is the top of the heap for cones and box speakers. and while the big Wilson Wamm and XVX are likely pretty good too, they don't interest me really, while if i could afford the M9 it might be my choice. it's likely doing things nothing else can do.

so i am very, very high on the M9's.

the trends i see are the horn (Deisis Roma, Aries Cerat, Tobian, new G3 Avante Garde, etc.) and field coil (WolfVonLanga) choices along with Omni's (Bayz) and Planars (Alsyvox). compared to 10-15 years ago these are the comers in the marketplace. some need much less amplifier power and are less room dependant than cones and boxes so open up more options....in more varied living spaces.

i think vintage horn attention has influenced new speaker design trends. maybe not much of that on this forum, but i read lots of it elsewhere.

my mind has seriously considered changing, but right now not likely for me. it takes a great room and lots of work, to get cones and box speakers to be fully natural and seamless. i have that great room and have done the work, so unless that changes i'm not changing. but many don't have that type of advantage and those other tech types of speakers have advantages.

Originally Posted by greystoke4

Hi, well, NekoAudio, you don't seem to be blown away with the M9, with your report, how far from the speakers were you, and what tracks were you playing,

I tend to word things in a more informational and factual manner than other people, which I can understand might be taken as a lack of enthusiasm. If you look at my older review of the A5 compared to the A3 (or pretty much any of my posts), you'll see I wrote in a similar fashion but we all know how good the A5 is and how much of a technological and sonic improvement it provided. Personally I get the most value out of reviews that provide factual information and points of comparison, because other aspects are so subjective.

To be clear, the M9 is the best speaker I've heard. When I wrote about how the M9 sounded, I was comparing to the other Magico speakers as well as other speakers I have heard. In other words, the M9 produces music better than all the others. The M9's are expensive, but what Magico is doing in terms of R&D in the speaker world is something I don't see anyone else doing. I think the results of those efforts can clearly be seen in how many people love Magico speakers, and how many reviewers consider them the best speakers you can buy. If someone can afford it, and can accommodate the physical size, then they're the speakers I would recommend. I listen to Magico speakers pretty much every day for my own personal pleasure, and I'd be doing so on the M9 if I could.

With respect to your other questions, I don't remember the exact distance I was sitting from the speakers, but I think it was probably about 15' from the tweeter to my head. We played a selection of vocal and instrumental tracks that I think are good choices for evaluating speakers.

Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne

understand i also wrote.....


so i am very, very high on the M9's.

the trends i see are the horn (Deisis Roma, Aries Cerat, Tobian, new G3 Avante Garde, etc.) and field coil (WolfVonLanga) choices along with Omni's (Bayz) and Planars (Alsyvox). compared to 10-15 years ago these are the comers in the marketplace. some need much less amplifier power and are less room dependant than cones and boxes so open up more options....in more varied living spaces.

i think vintage horn attention has influenced new speaker design trends. maybe not much of that on this forum, but i read lots of it elsewhere.

my mind has seriously considered changing, but right now not likely for me. it takes a great room and lots of work, to get cones and box speakers to be fully natural and seamless. i have that great room and have done the work, so unless that changes i'm not changing. but many don't have that type of advantage and those other tech types of speakers have advantages.

I think the only ones who believe vintage horn speakers can compete with today’s offerings are as delusional as the ones proclaiming this “natural sound” nonsense or maybe they’re the same ones? Vintage horns are colored beyond belief both from cabinet resonances, driver breakup and horn coloration. Personally, I see nothing appealing. That’s why there is little discussion of vintage horn speakers on any other forum, magazine, YouTube channel, etc.

True Omni pioneers like MBL, horn giants like Avantgarde and new panel ribbon speakers from Clarisys Audio offer a variety of alternatives to the wonderful world of dynamic loud speakers, which through modern materials, state of the art driver technology and a variety of measuring tools like the Klippel NFS utilized by Magico are keeping pace with other speaker topologies offered.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne

understand i also wrote.....


so i am very, very high on the M9's.

the trends i see are the horn (Deisis Roma, Aries Cerat, Tobian, new G3 Avante Garde, etc.) and field coil (WolfVonLanga) choices along with Omni's (Bayz) and Planars (Alsyvox). compared to 10-15 years ago these are the comers in the marketplace. some need much less amplifier power and are less room dependant than cones and boxes so open up more options....in more varied living spaces.

i think vintage horn attention has influenced new speaker design trends. maybe not much of that on this forum, but i read lots of it elsewhere.

my mind has seriously considered changing, but right now not likely for me. it takes a great room and lots of work, to get cones and box speakers to be fully natural and seamless. i have that great room and have done the work, so unless that changes i'm not changing. but many don't have that type of advantage and those other tech types of speakers have advantages.

Mike, oh Mike. have you been drinking the " Natural Sound " kool aid? Pretty sure your speakers and system you have now more than competes.

[dup

Originally Posted by XV-1

Mike, oh Mike. have you been drinking the " Natural Sound " kool aid? Pretty sure your speakers and system you have now more than competes.

thank you for the kind words.

not sure which part (M9 or those others?) you are referring to.

i do believe that if you just plunk the M9 and appropriate hardware down in some pretty designer room and expect it to surpass my room and system i agree with you that i got it equalled or bettered. the best speaker many times does not equal the best sound. but if someone as serious minded as myself optimizes the M9 then my expectation is that it's ceiling is higher (not sure i would view either Wilson that same way). in between those two realities it's a crap shoot. effort and relentlessness matter a lot. but......i respect the heck out of the M9 and it's capabilities.

yes, i am satisfied with my set-up.

and i have been amused by the 'Natural Sound'. lots going on there.

Originally Posted by Bobvin

Is the M9 just so far out of reach people choose to ignore it? Even if it breaks new ground in many areas?

Yes and yes.

Ken

Originally Posted by Bobvin

Hmm, really thought this review of the M9s would have sparked at least a little bit of conversation? Is the M9 just so far out of reach people choose to ignore it? Even if it breaks new ground in many areas?

What do you expect people who can't afford the M9 to learn from the M9 that is going to be applicable to them in their audiophile journey?

Originally Posted by Bobvin

Hmm, really thought this review of the M9s would have sparked at least a little bit of conversation? Is the M9 just so far out of reach people choose to ignore it? Even if it breaks new ground in many areas?

if it was a $750k turntable that would get the natives restless, and you could not shut people up. super-uber turntables are sexy, sexy, sexy. especially if it was established as a true performer. there would be line to buy them..

1000 pound,7 foot tall speakers......not so much. i own 7 foot tall 1500 pound twin towers. that kick ass. almost zero interest. and they are really amazing.

just the way it is.

Originally Posted by mep

What do you expect people who can't afford the M9 to learn from the M9 that is going to be applicable to them in their audiophile journey?

I agree. The M9 cone technology already trickled down to the A5 awhile ago.

Ken

Originally Posted by Bobvin

I like to say “you don’t know what you haven’t heard.” My own audiophile journey has had more to do with exposure than about anything else. Listening to different brand’s offerings at brick ‘n mortar stores — I only heard what they carried. Some gear I never listened to simply because the people in those stores were jerks.

Then I began to branch out, and seek out other less “popular“ gear. Then I had a good fortune to visit Mike Lavigne‘s room. It was quite a memorable and remarkable occasion. Am I willing to go that far myself, probably not. But it did show me a glimpse of the view from the top of the mountain. Another similar experience was my visit with Alon at Magico & the M9s. I have not enjoyed the occasion to listen to Mike Lavigne‘s system with, say, a different set of amplifiers. Same with the M9s, I heard a system. But in both instances I was gobsmacked.

Having heard a couple of amazing systems, as someone on my own audiophile journey, I can say I have an appreciation for what is possible, and it makes me curious about other systems and how they might compare. So while those speakers or systems are outside my personal financial abilities, it does influence decisions I make towards approaching that level of reproduction. I personally believe you can get >95% there for far less money. But if you have the resources, and the last few percentages is worth it to you, then you should hear systems that offer a view from the top of the mountain.

The real challenge, in my opinion within this hobby, is learning and deciding which components contribute to the sound you hear, and the sound you desire.

So you are basically advocating for audiophiles that can't afford M9s to go to Magico and listen to them?

The problem with all of this is that it is so gear focused. A big reason why some of these elite systems sound the way they do is that they are in dedicated, treated listening rooms that have been set up properly for an optimal experience. Just listening to better equipment is not, in my mind what most audiophiles need. What they need to hear are more modest systems that have been properly set up. This is what Jim Smith has dedicated himself to. You can throw all the gear you want at a system, but if it is not optimized to work within the listening environment in which it is placed, the results will be substandard. I am not saying that people shouldn't visit these systems to get a baseline as to what is possible, but they should understand what else beyond the gear is making the sound so great. They likely won't get that from the gear manufacturers as they want people to continue to turn their gear over in search of nirvana.

20 years ago i was in a small room (12' x 18' x 10' den) with a fairly formidable system. i had tweaked and pushed that room as far as it could go as far as potential gear performance (Rockport Sirius III tt, Kharma Exquisite 1D speakers) and was at a crossroads as to whether i would change the room, or stop my system building progress, sit back, and enjoy.

i convinced my wife it made sense to change homes, found one with a barn, built a clean sheet of paper---purpose built room, and went to work. it only took me 10 years of work and tweaking to recover what i had in my small room, then move way beyond that in the new room.

my previous smaller (normal residential) room was amazing, i had spend 7 years tweaking that room before i left it, and occasionally i wonder how it would have worked out if i had been satisfied staying there.

we all have our decisions to make and path to travel.

Originally Posted by greystoke4

Hi, as a matter of interest, does anyone have the measurements of the magico room, and a few photo's would be good, i'm guessing this room would have been optimised for the M9, and where are the M9's, placed, thanks

There are the photos from my visit, The Absolute Sound, and Mono & Stereo.

I don't know the exact dimensions, but you can probably make a rough guess based on the size of the equipment and furniture in the photos. As GSOphile mentioned, the room design was based on the goal of making it so you hear the speakers and not the room, and not specifically for the M9.

Having recently gone through the eye-opening experience of having my system setup by Stirling Trayle, I can unequivocally state that yes, the room is important, but so is the elimination of “noise” in the system, and the placement of the speakers - so that in the end the speakers are working not only with the room, but also with each other; with the latter point being especially critical in extracting the maximum engagement from the system.

Stirling set up my system pre-covid for the equipment I had at the time.

Since then, I added a different server (Taiko Extreme), amplifiers (CH Precision M10/L10) and cabling (Nordost Odin 2).

To my ears, the system sounded significantly better than the pre-covid version - by a lot. Engagement was effortless and through the roof.

But I knew that the speaker placement was not optimized for the new gear. So I engaged Stirling to work his magic two weeks ago.

Over a period of three days, Stirling cajoled a system he initially classified as confusing, to one that has jaw dropping engagement.

This was accomplished by first introducing noise reduction steps in the electronics; and second, through a series of speaker movements, often times involving only micro displacements (along the x-y-z axes, as well as rotations about them).

The end result, would have been difficult to imagine after hearing the
Improvements brought about by the new gear, and which speaks to Bobvin’s exposure comment.

And it was brought about in large part in the end, after establishing a baseline for the system noise, optimizing the placement of one speaker, and then positioning the second speaker so that it was working not only with the room, but just as importantly, working together (not against) with the other speaker.

It was a revelatory experience.

So yes the gear is important but not as much as the room, the noise level, or the speaker setup.

But just as importantly, if not more, by having an expert that has heard and setup hundreds of high end systems, and knows not only how much better a system can sound, but also what needs to be done to get there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would love to do something like this, just looked at Stirling's website and it's really well put together, credible and professional. Everything you say he did makes perfect sense, and near impossible to do without that kind of experience imo. Consumers can only get so far, I suspect. I have so many limitations to what can be done though, as it's not dedicated listening space, it's probably not worth it until I have more adjustable elements. Not to mention he's in Cali. One day perhaps...

I can't wait to hear the Clarisys Audio products.

Originally Posted by brad225

I can't wait to hear the Clarisys Audio products.

I know you can’t! Soon come. End of August at the latest.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Do "micro displacements" of speaker position yield a much wider listening sweet spot? Otherwise I don't understand the utility of "micro displacements" when the listeners ears are not locked in an exact position.