Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

**AJR** · September 11, 2018, 12:28 PM

This is a 12-18 month project so I might as well start flirting now

Does anyone have any views on these 3 speakers? I have not heard any of them but for some reason, and after a lot of thinking and research, these are the 3 on my shortlist. Call it intuition.

Due to my fairly limited room size (only 17-18 feet deep, very wide) and it is an A/V space, subs are not an option (although Jim Smith has given me ideas to reconfigure my layout - which I am still digesting). But for now I am assuming no subs.

Given my love affair for my Magico S3 mk2s I am leaning towards the M3s (with mpods). Other suggestions are most welcome too. Except Wilson (the aesthetic doesn’t resonate with me).

As far as music is concerned, my taste is fairly eclectic but leans towards grunge rock and elecktro.

Andrew

**KeithR** · September 11, 2018, 01:13 PM

Hey Andrew - we share similar tastes in music. Based on hearing the $30k Gryphon monitor on the Diablo recently at the show, I'm not sure they are the right fit for rocking out. They were a much more intimate sound. Mike may have more feedback on the floorstanders however.

I do have extensive experience with YG, including the Sonjas (good friend has them as well as my dealer carries the line) - great speaker, but needs lots of juice to rock out. I would want 250+ watts minimum. Dagostino Momentums are a great match. I heard the new ARC 160m on them recently and felt they were restrained despite the lovely tonality.

**GSOphile** · September 11, 2018, 01:15 PM

The Wilson Alexia II has been getting almost universally strong reviews. I'd check this one out. Rockport is also a very strong brand but unsure of availability in Singapore.

**Golum** · September 11, 2018, 01:17 PM

Hi Andrew;

I would add to this list Stenheim Alumine 5 if you have a chance to audition it.

Cheers;
G

**ashandger** · September 11, 2018, 02:39 PM

All good suggestions. I would also add Wilson Benesch Resolution perhaps with Torus subs. You can read Roy Gregory's review on The Audio Beat.

**Mike** · September 11, 2018, 05:23 PM

I’m not sure you would have the “throw” for Trident II’s. They’re absolute monsters, and not unlike the Pantheon’s, need room to breath. But ask your dealer and see what he says. The Trident II’s do have a lot of adjustability, but they are tall suckers.

I would say M3’s of your choices above. They’re a good, proper size for your room.

Can’t comment on the YG’s, as I’ve only heard them at shows.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

**Ritmo** · September 11, 2018, 08:57 PM

Andrew -

If you really enjoy the Magico house sound, then the M3s are probably your best choice. I have the Alexia 1s and really like the 2s (a better speaker). The YGs can be an interesting choice but they are very system dependent.

Can’t say much about the Gryphons. Have only heard them once although they were pretty darn good with the Gryphon amp and MSB Select II (courtesy of Mike at his store).

**AJR** · September 12, 2018, 02:05 AM

Thanks everyone. I am leaning towards the M3s. I think the Tridents most likely need a bigger room but will do some more digging on that. The YG dealer has the Sonjas in store with Vitus and MSB kit, my Gryphon dealer is virtually next door to him, and Magico is a couple floors up - might be possible to get everything together in one room for a show-down using Gryphon amps and MSB!

**AJR** · September 12, 2018, 02:06 AM

Originally Posted by ashandger

All good suggestions. I would also add Wilson Benesch Resolution perhaps with Torus subs. You can read Roy Gregory's review on The Audio Beat.

And Gryphon dealer also has Wilson Benesch!

**bart** · September 12, 2018, 04:58 AM

If your room is not too big, I would consider the YG Haileys also.
Magnificent speakers, reaching 20 Hz.

**Alpinist** · September 12, 2018, 08:25 AM

If you are considering YG Acoustics, I would honestly buy a pair of demo Sonja 1.2 over a new pair of Sonja 2.2. I heard the Sonja 2.2 in two different systems and I didn’t like the new silk dome tweeter with the aluminum bracing. It may have a higher power handling capacity before breakup but the old silk dome tweeter in the Sonja 1.2 is much smoother sounding and more pleasing to the ears in my honest opinion. It may also have something to do with changes in the crossover frequency with the new tweeter.

Ken

**bart** · September 12, 2018, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by Alpinist

If you are considering YG Acoustics, I would honestly buy a pair of demo Sonja 1.2 over a new pair of Sonja 2.2. I heard the Sonja 2.2 in two different systems and I didn’t like the new silk dome tweeter with the aluminum bracing. It may have a higher power handling capacity before breakup but the old silk dome tweeter in the Sonja 1.2 is much smoother sounding and more pleasing to the ears in my honest opinion. It may also have something to do with changes in the crossover frequency with the new tweeter.

Ken

Interesting Ken.
I'm going to hear the Sonja 2.2 next week.
Looking forward to it!

**brodricj** · September 12, 2018, 08:49 AM

M3 on Mpods. Nothing more to think about. Difficult for me to comprehend why an S3Mk2 owner might contemplate anything different.

**Cincy2** · September 12, 2018, 08:54 AM

I have a pair of M3's in a relatively small room. Totally satisfied and amazed every time I plop down in the sweet spot. I also use subs (Jim Smith recommendation when we voiced my room). Worth the price of admission.

Eric

**brodricj** · September 12, 2018, 08:57 AM

Is the P20 worth the price of admission?

**Cincy2** · September 12, 2018, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by brodricj

Is the P20 worth the price of admission?

Coming from a P10, the answer is yes. Blacker background. Rounder images. The power here in Tampa is horrible to begin with so YMMV.

Eric

**Alpinist** · September 12, 2018, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by bart

Interesting Ken.
I'm going to hear the Sonja 2.2 next week.
Looking forward to it!

Bart,

It would be great if you could audition both the Sonja 1.2 and 2.2 to compare. Don’t get me wrong, I really like the Sonja 2.2 but I love the Sonja 1.2.

Ken

**AJR** · September 12, 2018, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by brodricj

M3 on Mpods. Nothing more to think about. Difficult for me to comprehend why an S3Mk2 owner might contemplate anything different.

Thanks.

I haven’t heard them yet and I like to keep an open mind.

**Jim Smith** · September 12, 2018, 12:29 PM

M3s

**Elberoth** · September 12, 2018, 03:20 PM

+4 on the M3s.

It is difficoult to imagine a better speaker for a medium sized room. You would be amazed by the added smoothness, naturalness and warmth, all coupled with almost breathtaking resolution.

**GSOphile** · September 12, 2018, 06:28 PM

+5

**walesi** · September 13, 2018, 05:37 AM

+6 - +12876 M3. You know it already. Resistance is futile.

Seriously, I like your open mind -attitude. How about the MBL 101 mk2?

**AJR** · September 13, 2018, 06:02 AM

Now that’s an interesting idea! MBL didn't cross my mind. I know nothing about them except I recall reading on this forum some interesting posts. Will leave others to advise if they should make my shortlist.

**AJR** · September 13, 2018, 06:02 AM

Deleted - double post

**Jim Smith** · September 13, 2018, 07:21 AM

IMO, MBLs need a larger listening area than you have available.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**AJR** · September 13, 2018, 07:25 AM

Well that seals it then. M3s with Mpods. Subs can come later once I reconfigure my room.

Now I need to save...

**Mike** · September 13, 2018, 07:57 AM

Your room is fine for MBL 101e mk2’s. However, it would require a much advised matching electronics change long term. The Gryphon/MSB worked ok with the MBL’s in my showroom, but none better than the MBL electronics themselves.

I’m really starting to figure out the MBL’s. It’s taken many many hours, but I’m really starting to figure them out.

That being said, unless you’re willing to go all MBL long term for that “just right” sound, I would stick with your plan. Again, not saying other electronics won’t work, they will (!), but the MBL electronics really take the speakers to a whole new level of performance.

I think the M3’s are the way to go.

**Jim Smith** · September 13, 2018, 08:44 AM

I replied right after I posted above, but for some reason it didn't show up. He has no left side wall if he does not relocate the speakers. If he does, he will have no front wall behind the speakers.

I defer to your experience Mike - "your room is fine for MBL 101e Mk2's" - but I am surprised that he does not need both side walls a few feet away from the MBLs, and a front wall a few feet behind them.

Guess it shows that old dogs like me can still learn new tricks...

**AJR** · September 13, 2018, 08:51 AM

Mike and Jim - thank you for your advice. No way will I be switching electronics (Gryphon all the way for me), so the MBLs appear to be a no go.

**Jim Smith** · September 13, 2018, 09:02 AM

FWIW - Not trying to get you to change at all AJR, but I have had the MBL electronics here and they were exceptional. They don't get much press for some reason...

**Mike** · September 13, 2018, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by Jim Smith

I replied right after I posted above, but for some reason it didn't show up. He has no left side wall if he does not relocate the speakers. If he does, he will have no front wall behind the speakers.

I defer to your experience Mike - "your room is fine for MBL 101e Mk2's" - but I am surprised that he does not need both side walls a few feet away from the MBLs, and a front wall a few feet behind them.

Guess it shows that old dogs like me can still learn new tricks...

Good question. I have asked Jeremy from MBL repeatedly and he insists you don't need side walls, that they will work fine. I'm about to find out as I have a pair of 120's coming (and there's a hallway on one side and no sidewall on the other in that room. They also work better with natural diffusion like plants and less absorption. They also work amazingly well in the near field (CLOSE to an equilateral triangle). I also removed the stock spikes, gold "rings" and replaced with ISOAcoustics. Those guys at ISOAcoustics really stepped up to the plate and made me some custom adapters and extra long bolts. I asked Stillpoints for the same thing, about two months ago and I'm still waiting. I will be interested to try Ultra 5's. The bandpass bass does well with some isolation. I noted some use custom made Shun Mook discs fitted for the feet on the MBL's. I reached out to the rep, but they seem near impossible to come by these days due to the rarity of the aged Mpingo wood.

**AJR** · September 13, 2018, 09:13 AM

Got it. Thanks. It would be far too costly for me to switch electronics now. I love the Gryphon sound (thank you Mike), although I have not heard MBL. I preferred Gryphon over Vitus, Soulution, D’Agostinos (although we are talking small margins here and more about sound preference than anything else) and Devialet. It gives me richness but also details, and plenty of attack and slam. So my focus is on improving my speakers within the constraints of my listening room. I think the M3s make a lot of sense - and they give me flex to add subs when I reconfigure my room in line with your advice.

**Boogieman** · September 14, 2018, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

I’m really starting to figure out the MBL’s. It’s taken many many hours, but I’m really starting to figure them out.

Hi,
Do you mind elaborating on this a bit? Thanks

**Boogieman** · September 14, 2018, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

Good question. I have asked Jeremy from MBL repeatedly and he insists you don't need side walls, that they will work fine. I'm about to find out as I have a pair of 120's coming (and there's a hallway on one side and no sidewall on the other in that room. They also work better with natural diffusion like plants and less absorption. They also work amazingly well in the near field (CLOSE to an equilateral triangle). I also removed the stock spikes, gold "rings" and replaced with ISOAcoustics. Those guys at ISOAcoustics really stepped up to the plate and made me some custom adapters and extra long bolts. I asked Stillpoints for the same thing, about two months ago and I'm still waiting. I will be interested to try Ultra 5's. The bandpass bass does well with some isolation. I noted some use custom made Shun Mook discs fitted for the feet on the MBL's. I reached out to the rep, but they seem near impossible to come by these days due to the rarity of the aged Mpingo wood.

What sonic changes do you experience with ISOAcoustics instead of standard feet? Thank you

**Mike** · September 14, 2018, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by Boogieman

Hi,
Do you mind elaborating on this a bit? Thanks

Sure. Not unlike the Avantgarde’s, I have spent countless hours experimenting with the MBL’s in terms of side wall placement, front wall placement, amplification, source, toe in positioning, cables, playing with the actual adjustments on the back of the speakers and most importantly, seating placement. I am trying to learn the uniqueness of the speakers and how best to optimize them.

The ISOAcoustics are part of that experiment. They have tightened up the band pass bass considerably and allowed greater clarity and focus in the mids.

**Boogieman** · September 14, 2018, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Sure. Not unlike the Avantgarde’s, I have spent countless hours experimenting with the MBL’s in terms of side wall placement, front wall placement, amplification, source, toe in positioning, cables, playing with the actual adjustments on the back of the speakers and most importantly, seating placement. I am trying to learn the uniqueness of the speakers and how best to optimize them.

The ISOAcoustics are part of that experiment. They have tightened up the band pass bass considerably and allowed greater clarity and focus in the mids.

Thanks. So what's your take? Long wall or short wall placement? And how close to the walls?

**Mike** · September 14, 2018, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by Boogieman

Thanks. So what's your take? Long wall or short wall placement? And how close to the walls?

Short wall. AT LEAST 31 inches from the middle of the speaker to the side wall. 40-42 inches is better,

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Boogieman** · September 14, 2018, 08:24 PM

And coming back to answer the original question, I respectfully disagree with those who recommend Magico M3 for rock music. Magico is outstanding at getting acoustic instruments recorded in real space to sound like acoustic instruments in real space. If that's not your musical diet, I would look elsewhere.

For rock, I would go with MBL, Avantgarde, or Vivid Giya Spirit. YMMV.

**AJR** · September 15, 2018, 02:56 AM

This is a fascinating post - thank you. I would love to hear from M3 owners on this.

Relatedly - I posted on a separate thread, but I noticed a huge difference when playing rock/grunge on my system depending on what the Class A bias was on my amp. In short, the lower the Class A bias (and the higher the Class A/B), the better rock/grunge music sounded. The inverse was true for all other genres. Interesting.

**Alpinist** · September 15, 2018, 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by AJR

This is a fascinating post - thank you. I would love to hear from M3 owners on this.

Relatedly - I posted on a separate thread, but I noticed a huge difference when playing rock/grunge on my system depending on what the Class A bias was on my amp. In short, the lower the Class A bias (and the higher the Class A/B), the better rock/grunge music sounded. The inverse was true for all other genres. Interesting.

I suspect you will get a different opinion from M3 owners about their performance on rock music. If you feel the need for additional bass, add the REL subwoofers like Cincy did.

Ken

**Adyc** · September 15, 2018, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by Boogieman

And coming back to answer the original question, I respectfully disagree with those who recommend Magico M3 for rock music. Magico is outstanding at getting acoustic instruments recorded in real space to sound like acoustic instruments in real space. If that's not your musical diet, I would look elsewhere.

For rock, I would go with MBL, Avantgarde, or Vivid Giya Spirit. YMMV.

I agree. I listened to Magico a few times. They are lack of deep bass. And it is reflected that a few owners adding subwoofers. I would suggest you also consider Vivid G2. They are strong in bass and no need for subwoofers.

**kzhtoo** · September 16, 2018, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by Adyc

I agree. I listened to Magico a few times. They are lack of deep bass. And it is reflected that a few owners adding subwoofers. I would suggest you also consider Vivid G2. They are strong in bass and no need for subwoofers.

If you’re used to port bass as deep bass, you might find Magico lacking in that area. You’ll have to actually LIVE with a set of Magico for weeks to truly appreciate Magico bass.

**brodricj** · September 16, 2018, 12:37 AM

I advocate using subwoofer in all stereo systems, no matter the bass capability of the main speaker. My Q3 goes plenty deep enough with only minor assistance from SVS SB13Ultra.

**AJR** · September 16, 2018, 01:06 AM

Is the concern about the M3s possibly not playing rock/grunge very well only a bass concern? I am very happy with the bass from my S3 mk2s. I wouldn’t want there to be less bass however. Do the M3s go at least as low as the S3 mk2s (the specs say they are the same). Even if not, that won’t be a deal breaker as I will get subs eventually.

**Alpinist** · September 16, 2018, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by AJR

Is the concern about the M3s possibly not playing rock/grunge very well only a bass concern? I am very happy with the bass from my S3 mk2s. I wouldn’t want there to be less bass however. Do the M3s go at least as low as the S3 mk2s (the specs say they are the same). Even if not, that won’t be a deal breaker as I will get subs eventually.

If you are satisfied with the S3 Mk2’s bass and the way they play rock music, I believe you will be ecstatic with the sound of the M3’s. Maybe someone who has owned both will chime in. REL subwoofers will give you an even stronger foundation. Maybe Cincy can comment on that, as he owns them.

Best,
Ken

**kiwi_1282001** · September 16, 2018, 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by Boogieman

And coming back to answer the original question, I respectfully disagree with those who recommend Magico M3 for rock music. Magico is outstanding at getting acoustic instruments recorded in real space to sound like acoustic instruments in real space. If that's not your musical diet, I would look elsewhere.
For rock, I would go with MBL, Avantgarde, or Vivid Giya Spirit. YMMV.

Originally Posted by Adyc

I agree. I listened to Magico a few times. They are lack of deep bass. And it is reflected that a few owners adding subwoofers. I would suggest you also consider Vivid G2. They are strong in bass and no need for subwoofers.

AJR, have you talked to Magico owners or better yet visited their homes in Singapore? If not I would urge you to speak with Alvin or Cecil to request they connect you to local Magico owners – before you commit to the purchase. Beyond the loudspeakers bass, you need to be confident about the Magico / Gryphon synergy. By meeting Magico M3 and M-Project owners you get insight into their choices of amplification [one of them swears by a tube amplifier; another swears by Soulution] and their thoughts on the necessity (or otherwise) to supplement the Magico’s bass by purchasing Q sub(s).

**Boogieman** · September 16, 2018, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Short wall. AT LEAST 31 inches from the middle of the speaker to the side wall. 40-42 inches is better,

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We posted nearly simultaneously and I didn't see this before. Thank you so much.

**Boogieman** · September 16, 2018, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by AJR

This is a fascinating post - thank you. I would love to hear from M3 owners on this.

Hi,

I love the internet as much as everyone, but asking people for what they like may not mean that is what you like. There's just too much noise. And if you pick what others are telling you, there's a good chance you will not be happy.

You have an elite list of speakers to audition, and you will not go wrong. But until you hear them for yourself, with the records or CDs you like and regularly listen to, you will never know what you prefer.

**Mike** · September 16, 2018, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Boogieman

Hi,

I love the internet as much as everyone, but asking people for what they like may not mean that is what you like. There's just too much noise. And if you pick what others are telling you, there's a good chance you will not be happy.

You have an elite list of speakers to audition, and you will not go wrong. But until you hear them for yourself, with the records or CDs you like and regularly listen to, you will never know what you prefer.

Terrific advice.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**AJR** · September 16, 2018, 06:38 PM

Thanks. Yes, I plan to hear for myself and that is what will ultimately be decisive. But I also take into account the views of others.

Thread: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Re: Magico M3 v Gryphon Trident II v YG Sonja 2.2

Posting Permissions