Thread: Kii Audio - Three

Kii Audio GmbH - High End Active Speakers for HiFi and Professional use.

This should be interesting, if it works as promised and delivered on time. From Bruno Putzeys, who designed and/or was involved in, Hypex, Mola-Mola and Grimm Audio LS-1.

DSP controlled, active speakers, with some rather amazing specs.

4x 6.5" woofer, 1x5" midrange, 1" waveguided tweeter, all individually driven
Amplification: 6x250W full-custom Ncore
Active Wave Focusing™ crossover filter
Frequency response: 20Hz...25kHz +/- 0.5dB
Phase response: minimum (best possible time coherence).
Long term SPL(*): 105dB
Short term SPL(*): 110dB
Peak SPL: 115dB
Controlled Directivity: 4.8dB (80Hz - 1kHz, slowly rising thereafter)
Size: 20x40x40cm, 8"x16"x16" (WxHxD)
Weight: 15kg (33lbs)
Inputs: Analogue, AES/EBU, WISA
Selectable correction for free-standing, near wall or in corner

WISA compatible so wireless connection possible too.

Launch video from Munich 2015, with Bruno speaking on the design goals and technology used.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1Nebe3ULcY

Some impressions from Srajan Ebaen (KIH #22 - More time delay with Kii Audio | DAR). Target price of EUR10,000, if unchanged upon delivery, seems rather competitive for what it purports to offer.

Key technology appears to be the "Active Wave Focusing" filter, which aims to take the rear wall away from the sound equation. If the following pictures from Bruno's own living room is any guide, near wall placement would not be an issue at all - would be an amazing solution for small/medium listening rooms. In the background are the Grimm LS1s and Vivid Giyas - guess that could have inspired the horizontally opposed woofers (like the Devialet Phantoms).

More impressions (aktives-hoeren.de ? Thema anzeigen - Kii THREE - Bruno Putzeys' neue Kreation)

Looks attractive in a "modern chic" way, and rather better than the LS1.

Could you clarify your question?

I did not attend the launch event in Munich so have no idea how they sound. The initial production units are scheduled for delivery to the dealers in September/October this year, assuming that there are no delays.

The living room in the first post belongs to Bruno Putzeys, the gentleman who was involved in the design of the Kii Audio Three and the Grimm Audio LS1/s. It is interesting that he has what appears to be Vivid Giya G3 for reference as well.

Originally Posted by Glareskin

Funny that there is not a lot of interest of this topic. Apparently this is a breakthrough in loudspeaker technology German magazine Audio is quite clear in their statement: "why has nobody done this before?".

Basically they have designed a speaker design that solves a lot of room related problems with its built-in DSP's. I think we cannot ignore this type of development and should try it out. I have scheduled a listen session in September.

Thanks for posting this. Looks like it lost out on points for max SPL and bass extension reasons, which is not unexpected given its compact form. The other comments and ratings look quite good otherwise.

Its been quiet as I believe that dealer deliveries are due only in September/October so only reviewers (and those who attended the Munich launch) have heard them. Plus, with active speakers, there is nothing much to "tweak" - other than LAN and AC cables. I am looking to hear them once they arrive at my dealer.

Initially, only the double pillar, sand fill-able, stands (used in Munich) will be available. In 2016, there will be a so-called lifestyle stand with a design to match the Three, with "channels" to hide the speaker and AC cables.

I understand that Kii Audio will also be developing a (or possibly two) remote interface/controller box (similar to Grimm) to be used with the Three, where the digital source is connected to the controller box, with RJ45 (wired) or WISA (wireless) connection to the speakers. No details yet on whether the controller box will have USB or UPnP inputs though.

Wisnon , thanks for pointing it out this thread, I am genuinely excited to hear these, our first pairs won't arrive until the end of September.
Chris says they are better than the LS1's, we have those here, and they are the finest 'conventional' ( although far from conventional) loudspeakers I have heard.
If the Kii THREE's are really better then wow!
Keith.

Have you heard them in your own room?
I have lived with a pair for what four years now, and they are superb, it takes a little while to really adjust to a really flat FR and even off axis response.
The way they easily integrate into any room, the fact they cause the least room issues of any speaker I have tried, their adjustability ,their versatility, 20Hz perfect phase, they are superb loudspeakers.
Keith.

mm They look pretty.

With all respect, all you really hear at shows is the gross effect of the room. The LS1's are superb loudspeakers, ask for a home demonstration ,we have had some extremely expensive loudspeakers here and had the opportunity to compare them in the same rooms.
Keith.

You can't cancel the effect of the room, although Kii are proposing to cancel the rear bass wave, which previously could only be done by suffix mounting.
Grimm aim to have the least interaction with the room as possible, wide baffle, 45 degree toe in,adjustable bass extension, in built EQ etc .
Keith.

Geithain also claim Cardiod bass, but when I measured a pair here, they didn't appear to be very effective, but I would never claim my measurements are definitive.
I look forward to having the Kii's here, delivery should be end of next month.
Keith.

No loudspeaker can take the room out of the equation, you can designso that the speaker has less effect , like the LS1's.
Room nodes for example are purely a function of the rooms dimensions, you can use passive room treatment , DRC or parametric EQ to ameliorate the effects of the room, that's what I do here, with my Illusonic processor.
It is possible to have a wonderful sounding room/ speaker combination but it takes a bit of investigation and then implementation.
Keith.

Wis Hi, I don't doubt you, the technology exists ,( Illusonic for example) that can allow every
room to sound fantastic, smart exhibitors should be using it!
Keith.

I heard the LS-1 at Munich this year and they were okay until I heard them on my dem disc - I would say medium to average for the show - no more, no less. Soundstage was flat, dynamics were ok, timbre was below average, voices were congested and not much delineation between instruments in space.

Originally Posted by Purité Audio

Wis Hi, I don't doubt you, the technology exists ,( Illusonic for example) that can allow every
room to sound fantastic, smart exhibitors should be using it!
Keith.

I agree with that - always surprises me that exhibitors don't use that kinda tech more often.

Originally Posted by wisnon

Yup, the Goldmund folks said it took them 30 mins to set up in Vegas last time. A quick email sent back home with the room dimensions and ast download of the computed parameters to the digital hub and they were off to the bar to chill out and enjoy Vegas…other people were up all night twiddling and still took 2 days or more to get their room sounding decent.

Having said all this, I still think passive treatments should be the first priority at home and wife permitting. Drc IMHO is then the second port of call.

Originally Posted by Audiophile bill

I heard the LS-1 at Munich this year and they were okay until I heard them on my dem disc - I would say medium to average for the show - no more, no less. Soundstage was flat, dynamics were ok, timbre was below average, voices were congested and not much delineation between instruments in space.

Unfortunately I couldnt make Munich this year, I believe Grimm were alternating between a two and five channel system?
I am going to experiment with multi channel here when the Kii's arrive.
The Illusonic IAP processor I have allows me to connect up to eight loudspeakers, and the Illusonic immersive processor can up mix ordinary two channel into m/c .
The three channel Illusonic demonstration at Munich before last was hugely impressive.
Keith.

Originally Posted by Audiophile bill

Having said all this, I still think passive treatments should be the first priority at home and wife permitting. Drc IMHO is then the second port of call.

First thing is to acoustically measure your room and discover the specific issues, if low bass is a problem it is extremely difficult to fix passively.
I ended up with tuned Modex panels here, which have really helped, but the EQ correction that Christof ( Illusonic) created has been perhaps the single largest improvement in sound quality I have experienced .
Keith.

Originally Posted by Purité Audio

Unfortunately I couldnt make Munich this year, I believe Grimm were alternating between a two and five channel system?
I am going to experiment with multi channel here when the Kii's arrive.
The Illusonic IAP processor I have allows me to connect up to eight loudspeakers, and the Illusonic immersive processor can up mix ordinary two channel into m/c .
The three channel Illusonic demonstration at Munich before last was hugely impressive.
Keith.

Yes. I only sat in on the 2 channel dem so they hung a cloth over the centre channel to not distract the eye as it were. The illusonic does sound very cool especially the up mixing to mch. Can you run analogue sources into it and retain the signature before the upmix or do you have to feed a digital source?

Originally Posted by Purité Audio

First thing is to acoustically measure your room and discover the specific issues, if low bass is a problem it is extremely difficult to fix passively.
I ended up with tuned Modex panels here, which have really helped, but the EQ correction that Christof ( Illusonic) created has been perhaps the single largest improvement in sound quality I have experienced .
Keith.

Agree on the measurement point. That was my first point of call although I ought to invest in a better mic than my behringer condenser. Your room sounds very problematic Keith - what kind of wild bass issues were you having before? I suffered from a suck out at 50hz which is incurable drc or not - you can whack a load of gain at that frequency and potentially fry your drivers so not clever (especially with 2kw of Krell muscle on tap). Other than that I had a 3db boost at 30hz that I enjoy and other than that the normal type of fluctuations that most rooms seem to have that was smoothed out somewhat with bass trapping although not as flat as when Acourate is on.

Grimm used ,I believe a modified OPPO, I am going to experiment with the Illusonic, which is a preamp, ADC,DAC, sophisticated EQ,( and tone controls) phono stage and you can create your own DSP crossovers with it if you like.
It also has Illusonics Immersive algorithm which separates direct ,reflected and ambient sounds , with enough channels you can recreate the original venues acoustic .
Keith.

Originally Posted by Audiophile bill

Agree on the measurement point. That was my first point of call although I ought to invest in a better mic than my behringer condenser. Your room sounds very problematic Keith - what kind of wild bass issues were you having before? I suffered from a suck out at 50hz which is incurable drc or not - you can whack a load of gain at that frequency and potentially fry your drivers so not clever (especially with 2kw of Krell muscle on tap). Other than that I had a 3db boost at 30hz that I enjoy and other than that the normal type of fluctuations that most rooms seem to have that was smoothed out somewhat with bass trapping although not as flat as when Acourate is on.

I suffer from a 24dB peak at 28Hz ,and multiples thereof, standing waves based on the room's dimensions, I have experimented with everything, initially and rather naively just covering the room in acoustic foam, then digital room correction in various iterations, Trinnov, Accurate, Dirac, ending up with a mixture of passive , RPG tuned Modex panels and EQ.
With the Illusonic you make the measurements with the Illusonic software and then send the files to Christof, he then creates a correction.
You can then of course play with that correctional much as you like ,simply creating a modified file and A/Bing against the original.
There are also ,depth, immersion and brilliance parameters, you can adjust the separation of the sound from the loudspeakers, increasing the ambient sound ,all on the fly.
It is a superb bit of kit,
Keith.

Originally Posted by Purité Audio

I suffer from a 24dB peak at 28Hz ,and multiples thereof, standing waves based on the room's dimensions, I have experimented with everything, initially and rather naively just covering the room in acoustic foam, then digital room correction in various iterations, Trinnov, Accurate, Dirac, ending up with a mixture of passive , RPG tuned Modex panels and EQ.
With the Illusonic you make the measurements with the Illusonic software and then send the files to Christof, he then creates a correction.
You can then of course play with that correctional much as you like ,simply creating a modified file and A/Bing against the original.
There are also ,depth, immersion and brilliance parameters, you can adjust the separation of the sound from the loudspeakers, increasing the ambient sound ,all on the fly.
It is a superb bit of kit,
Keith.

How much is this device? The 8 channel one that is.

The Illusonic IAP8 is CHF 15k inc everything, so what £9k ish, that is for preamp, phono ,dac,ADC ,EQ, DSP crossovers, all the control and calibration software and a professional acoustician from Illusonic to create your EQ, as many times as you wish.
Keith.