Results 51 to 99 of 99
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December 20, 2020, 04:19 PM #51
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
Interestingly, YG Acoustics does not use SOTA materials in its drivers. Aluminum is hardly SOTA. However, the way they manufacture their driver cones out of aluminum is absolutely SOTA. The cones are milled out of a solid block of aluminum to maximize rigidity and minimize weight. I’ve listened to the Sonja 1.2’s and 2.2’s many times and I continue to be impressed by the realistic sound they produce.
Ken"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
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December 20, 2020, 04:46 PM #52
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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December 20, 2020, 05:18 PM #53
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
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December 20, 2020, 05:27 PM #54
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
4x20A circuits | Shunyata Triton + Typhon | Source 1: HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen -> Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, Squeezebox, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | TotalDAC Live PSU + D1 Twelve Mk II DAC + Mk II streamer | Source 2: Acoustic Signature Ascona TT | Kuzma 4 point tonearm | Koetsu Rosewood Signature cart | Pass XP-15 phono pre | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya Spirits | 4 JL Audio Fathom subs | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech King jumpers, Shunyata/Audioquest PCs / Eth. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Altair reference and Eris II racks | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room
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December 20, 2020, 06:15 PM #55
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
Not very well thought out, I’m afraid. Most (not all) audiophiles are trying to end up with a system that sounds like live music to them. If all that required was low distortion and what you term “neutrality” then we would all have the same systems (at any given price point). The obvious fact is, though, that no matter how much one spends you will not end up with a system that will be confused with live music, and even at stratospheric prices you can end up with many different systems, all excellent, none sounding the same, none which will be confused with live music, and not all of them (maybe not even the “best” of them, if there is such a thing) “neutral” in the sense you mean.
Rob
__________________________
Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
Adona rack, Stillpoints, IsoPods, ASC, GIK Acoustics accessories
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December 20, 2020, 06:18 PM #56
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
Low sensitivity/low impedance speakers are really for SS amps IMO. High sensitivity/high impedance speakers do jump to life quickly and have exciting dynamics. If your SS amp doubles its power output power at 4 ohms and they are driving speakers with a nominal impedance of 4 ohms, your amp is being pushed much harder than if it was driving high impedance/high sensitivity speakers.
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
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December 20, 2020, 06:35 PM #57
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December 20, 2020, 06:42 PM #58
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, HiFi Rose 150B DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, Parasound JC5 amp , JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.
Reviewer for Positive Feedback
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December 20, 2020, 07:35 PM #59
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
Not very well thought out? Ha Ha, relax self - proclaimed audiophile genius.
First, thanks for your opinion. However you missed and / or misinterpreted several points I made. Specifically - a) focusing on the OP's question WRT driver, not the complete system, you veered off topic. b) all above was my opinion, take it or leave it; it's not right or wrong or 1/2 "thought out" or not. c) Staying on the OP's topic WRT speaker driver material and what attributes I believe matter most I specifically stated, "to be fair there are also other variables". Yes, neutrality is very important but not the whole enchilada.
In addition WRT neutrality = we would all have the the same system is ridiculous; your grossly overvaluing my comment and the effects of system complexity and component synergy.
Not very well thought out, I'm afraid ;-)4x20A circuits | Shunyata Triton + Typhon | Source 1: HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen -> Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, Squeezebox, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | TotalDAC Live PSU + D1 Twelve Mk II DAC + Mk II streamer | Source 2: Acoustic Signature Ascona TT | Kuzma 4 point tonearm | Koetsu Rosewood Signature cart | Pass XP-15 phono pre | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya Spirits | 4 JL Audio Fathom subs | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech King jumpers, Shunyata/Audioquest PCs / Eth. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Altair reference and Eris II racks | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room
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December 20, 2020, 08:53 PM #60
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
Except for your occasional qualifier “IME” or “IMO” I think I represented your post very well Yes I went off on you a bit, and perhaps unfairly, because you do mention all the important attributes a speaker (both driver and system) should have. To date, the biggest problem I have had with speaker systems using “exotic” materials (and I realize I did not define very well what that is) for drivers has been relatively low efficiency (due to higher mass? more complex Xovers?) and IMO that makes it hard to accurately reproduce dynamics. Neutrality is a term like transparency that has probably been overused and perhaps improperly used by audio reviewers and posters in forums like this, and in the way that you used it in your post I would not agree with your premise.
Edit: low moving mass without the stiffness and self-damping you mention are characteristics of ribbon and electrostatic drivers (certainly not exotic), and each of these types of drivers offer desirable sonic characteristics hard to achieve with other designs or materialsRob
__________________________
Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
Adona rack, Stillpoints, IsoPods, ASC, GIK Acoustics accessories
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December 21, 2020, 01:10 AM #61
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Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
i cannot recall, and realize i said it was based on that 11" Accuton Ceramic woofer driver and then modified. maybe Accuton changed the membrane for Magico. there are very few high efficiency 11" woofers out there. if you have alternate information about the source of that particular 11" driver then enlighten us.
and i could be wrong.my system on Audiogon; https://www.audiogon.com/systems/615
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December 21, 2020, 04:48 AM #62
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Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
A short story from Munich High End 2019. I was at the other audio show, located at a hotel... Can't remember the name. I was sitting alone listening to one of the greatest system possible, the mighty magico m6, I stayed and stayed and just couldn't figure out what's wrong with it. I was so underwhelmed and bored! How could it be I asked my self, while watching other visitors coming and going, nobody stayed longer then 5 minutes. It was cruel...
The next room I went was just mesmerising, audionote speakers playing some beautiful jazz, live recordings.. Both speakers were shoved to the far room corners. You know, it just didn't made sense, a prehistoric cabinet with paper and silk drivers in the worst position possible made Musik and emotions of such beauty. SOTA? Well no, but does it matter?!?! This room was full, and stayed full till the sun went down.
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December 21, 2020, 08:20 AM #63
Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
The hotel was the Marriott and the show was Munich HiFi Deluxe (not related to the proper Munich High End show). The room with the M6’s was a closet sized room run by the bozos at TotalDAC who never seemingly can get a good sounding room at any show. It was a complete disaster of a setup in a room 10 times too small for those speakers. They were also jammed into the corners and set way back because there was no room. They also had this weird plastic table in the middle of the room which was causing reflections. The room would have been too small for M2’s frankly.
If you heard the M6’s at the Munich High End show, especially the large Soulution/Critical Mass room, you would hear how incredible these speakers can sound when properly setup. We used M6’s at The Florida Audio Expo and won best of show.
As for the Audio Note speakers, they were definitely not my cup of tea. When I went in, the room was empty.My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
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December 21, 2020, 09:16 AM #64
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Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
Yes, I have (of course) went straight to the m6 at the high end munich and was very much relieved! My point is, like you wrote earlier, it is so much more than placing some esoteric drivers in a fancy cabinet. Anyway, I learnt a good deal that evening.
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December 21, 2020, 09:22 AM #65
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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December 21, 2020, 12:29 PM #66
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
Considering Magico prides itself on developing all drivers in house I'd be surprised if they leveraged drivers from any vendor especially for their new flagship M9. My information comes from the Magico site. The M9 - A Revelatory New Flagship Loudspeaker — Magico Loudspeakers
4x20A circuits | Shunyata Triton + Typhon | Source 1: HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen -> Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, Squeezebox, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | TotalDAC Live PSU + D1 Twelve Mk II DAC + Mk II streamer | Source 2: Acoustic Signature Ascona TT | Kuzma 4 point tonearm | Koetsu Rosewood Signature cart | Pass XP-15 phono pre | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya Spirits | 4 JL Audio Fathom subs | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech King jumpers, Shunyata/Audioquest PCs / Eth. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Altair reference and Eris II racks | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room
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December 21, 2020, 12:36 PM #67
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
It's interesting that the M9 has a rated sensitivity of 94 dB, while the A5 is 88 dB? Does the efficiency of the bigger magnets overcome the increased mass of the bigger drivers? Does the new crossover have a simpler circuit path with less heat (or other inefficiency) loss?
Rob
__________________________
Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
Adona rack, Stillpoints, IsoPods, ASC, GIK Acoustics accessories
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December 21, 2020, 12:53 PM #68
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
All things being equal bigger drivers are usually more efficient. The area of the driver supercedes magnet size. Take the Giya G1 to G2, they use the same drivers for H, M-H and M with the only difference the woofers size and the G1 is ~2DB more efficient. Which btw has nothing to do with current requirements.
4x20A circuits | Shunyata Triton + Typhon | Source 1: HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen -> Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, Squeezebox, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | TotalDAC Live PSU + D1 Twelve Mk II DAC + Mk II streamer | Source 2: Acoustic Signature Ascona TT | Kuzma 4 point tonearm | Koetsu Rosewood Signature cart | Pass XP-15 phono pre | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya Spirits | 4 JL Audio Fathom subs | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech King jumpers, Shunyata/Audioquest PCs / Eth. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Altair reference and Eris II racks | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room
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December 21, 2020, 01:44 PM #69
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
Rob
__________________________
Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
Adona rack, Stillpoints, IsoPods, ASC, GIK Acoustics accessories
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December 21, 2020, 04:00 PM #70
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
4x20A circuits | Shunyata Triton + Typhon | Source 1: HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen -> Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, Squeezebox, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | TotalDAC Live PSU + D1 Twelve Mk II DAC + Mk II streamer | Source 2: Acoustic Signature Ascona TT | Kuzma 4 point tonearm | Koetsu Rosewood Signature cart | Pass XP-15 phono pre | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya Spirits | 4 JL Audio Fathom subs | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech King jumpers, Shunyata/Audioquest PCs / Eth. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Altair reference and Eris II racks | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room
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December 21, 2020, 05:17 PM #71
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
I meant interior enclosure volume. Depending on the type of enclosure, increased volume will usually result in increased efficiency
Rob
__________________________
Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
Adona rack, Stillpoints, IsoPods, ASC, GIK Acoustics accessories
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December 21, 2020, 05:29 PM #72
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
Thanks Rob, I did understand what you meant hence my B) above (a bigger cabinet results in a larger internal volume). Again at the 1KHz specified frequency the difference is negligible.
Not to get too off topic (which we are somewhat :-) ) but I always questioned the validity of speaker efficiency results since, in and of itself is insufficient to determine power requirements. The impedance curve, one could argue is at least as important.4x20A circuits | Shunyata Triton + Typhon | Source 1: HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen -> Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, Squeezebox, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | TotalDAC Live PSU + D1 Twelve Mk II DAC + Mk II streamer | Source 2: Acoustic Signature Ascona TT | Kuzma 4 point tonearm | Koetsu Rosewood Signature cart | Pass XP-15 phono pre | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya Spirits | 4 JL Audio Fathom subs | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech King jumpers, Shunyata/Audioquest PCs / Eth. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Altair reference and Eris II racks | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room
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December 21, 2020, 06:38 PM #73
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December 21, 2020, 07:31 PM #74
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
No doubt speaker efficiency as commonly specified is of limited use in determining amplifier power requirements. It is interesting, though, that in general the more "efficient" a speaker system the flatter its impedance curve tends to be. Not surprising, though, since these speakers will typically have simpler crossover networks and often more powerful magnets for a given driver size.
Rob
__________________________
Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
Adona rack, Stillpoints, IsoPods, ASC, GIK Acoustics accessories
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December 21, 2020, 07:42 PM #75
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Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
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December 21, 2020, 07:42 PM #76
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Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
I don't know how an aluminium cone would sound any different if it was pressed out of rolled sheet aluminium compared to being cut out of solid block to the same thickness. Unless the grain structure of the metal had something to do with the resulting physical properties.
Speakers: Magico M3, ACC, S-SUB | Electronics: Esoteric Grandioso stack | Amplification: Halcro |
Analog cables: Crystal Cable | Digital cables: Shunyata Sigma | Rack: YG Acoustics Rack 1.8
| Source: Kaleidescape Premiere (4 x 6TB) | Power: Shunyata Typhon-QR, Everest and Denali
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December 21, 2020, 09:12 PM #77
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Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
All this talk about efficiency of a speaker makes little sense to me when you isolate it from the amp.
While efficient speakers can be driven by low power amps (tubes for example), inefficient speakers driven by powerful SS amps can also sing!
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December 21, 2020, 09:53 PM #78
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December 21, 2020, 10:00 PM #79
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
Hi Brodric,
Yes, the the speaker cone milled out of a block of cast aluminum has very different physical properties compared to a speaker cone pressed out of aluminum. It is far more rigid than a pressed piece of aluminum of the same thickness. And the difference in sound quality is significant.
Ken"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
--------------------------------------------
Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
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December 21, 2020, 10:12 PM #80
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December 21, 2020, 11:10 PM #81
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
I'm not sure I agree. If the material is the same stock and the difference is the process - CNC versus pressed how does that affect the end resulting driver cone? Unless there is excessive stresses placed during the stamping process that, maybe affects the raw material? My gut (and experience) tells me because of their specific application they employ CNC because of the limitations in pressing where CNC is virtually limitless. The added benefit is marketing goodness since milling from a block sounds more exotic and "better".
4x20A circuits | Shunyata Triton + Typhon | Source 1: HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen -> Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, Squeezebox, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | TotalDAC Live PSU + D1 Twelve Mk II DAC + Mk II streamer | Source 2: Acoustic Signature Ascona TT | Kuzma 4 point tonearm | Koetsu Rosewood Signature cart | Pass XP-15 phono pre | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya Spirits | 4 JL Audio Fathom subs | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech King jumpers, Shunyata/Audioquest PCs / Eth. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Altair reference and Eris II racks | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room
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December 21, 2020, 11:21 PM #82
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Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
you can press a tweeter yes, but not a billet dome.
have a look at the precision as well
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December 22, 2020, 12:51 AM #83
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
Can I ask why can't you press a dome? If you had the appropriate tool why not? Do you believe it can't due to the precision / tight tolerances required?
4x20A circuits | Shunyata Triton + Typhon | Source 1: HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen -> Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, Squeezebox, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | TotalDAC Live PSU + D1 Twelve Mk II DAC + Mk II streamer | Source 2: Acoustic Signature Ascona TT | Kuzma 4 point tonearm | Koetsu Rosewood Signature cart | Pass XP-15 phono pre | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya Spirits | 4 JL Audio Fathom subs | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech King jumpers, Shunyata/Audioquest PCs / Eth. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Altair reference and Eris II racks | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room
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December 22, 2020, 01:06 AM #84
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Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
the 11" Magico bass driver (2 per tower) has lot's of common design attributes to this Accuton 11" bass driver (of which there are 4 of in each of my speakers).
Accuton S280-6-282 11" Sandwich Cone Woofer
likely not an accident. my MM7 passive towers are 97db efficient; if they only had 2 of these drivers they would be 94db efficient. and the M9's just happen to be 94db efficient. imagine that.
find another 11" woofer that covers 30hz to 250hz that is 92db efficient. you won't find one. only this one. which is why Magico choose it. then they modified it. nothing nefarious about it. i can tell you that no dynamic driver speaker can do mid bass like my speakers. and this driver is key to that. no crossover in the power range of the music. like a planar. with 4 there is little driver excursion. quite the effect. and with high efficiency you get ease in the amplifier. all around magical. Magico.
i've had my speakers for 8 years. so long before the M9's were even a twinkle in Alon's eye. if these 11" Magico drivers did not begin life as Accutons, then Magico certainly used the Accuton's as design inspiration.my system on Audiogon; https://www.audiogon.com/systems/615
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December 22, 2020, 02:43 AM #85
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
First off, based on your link that 11" ceramic driver is ~91DB efficient being rare - here are a few others that have the same sensitivity across the same frequency range which, to be frank 30 - 250Hz is nothing extraordinary: My previous speaker the Usher BE20s driver is the last one FYI.
Scan-Speak 28W/4878T-01 Revelator 11" Woofer- 4 ohm
Eton 11-212 Symphony II - 11" Kevlar Woofer
Second, your passive towers and the M9s efficiency is not comprised solely of mid woofers. The 94 DB is a complete speaker impedance value so your supposition that the "M9s just happen to be 94db efficient. imagine that." doesn't hold water.
Third - You comment about, "No dynamic driver speaker can do mid bass like my speakers" is conceit (as you looove to bring up your system in every post) and is your opinion. And while I'm sure it sounds great is it the best mid bass ever?, Ha ha, it's a big planet my friend and the ultra speaker bar keeps climbing. In fact, I recall an owner of MM7s selling his to have EA upgrade above the older and smaller MM7s. Then there's the big Gryphons, Rockport Arrakis with complementary subs, the Von Schweikert Ultra 11s, the Infinity Vs and, well you get the point.
A humble man once said - There's always something better.4x20A circuits | Shunyata Triton + Typhon | Source 1: HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen -> Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, Squeezebox, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | TotalDAC Live PSU + D1 Twelve Mk II DAC + Mk II streamer | Source 2: Acoustic Signature Ascona TT | Kuzma 4 point tonearm | Koetsu Rosewood Signature cart | Pass XP-15 phono pre | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya Spirits | 4 JL Audio Fathom subs | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech King jumpers, Shunyata/Audioquest PCs / Eth. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Altair reference and Eris II racks | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room
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December 22, 2020, 04:34 AM #86
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
Hi Mike,
Reading Magico’s and Accuton’s description of their 11 inch woofers, it appears that Magico has used Accuton’s basket, neodymium magnets and titanium voice coil in their M9 speaker. The description is identical word for word. However, the speaker cones on the M9’s are designed, manufactured and unique to Magico as they utilize a carbon-graphene/aluminum honeycomb core/carbon-graphene sandwich proprietary design. This is a significant differentiator from Accuton’s ceramic sandwich speaker cones.
The M9 - A Revelatory New Flagship Loudspeaker — Magico Loudspeakers
Best,
Ken"No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
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Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords
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December 22, 2020, 09:47 AM #87
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Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
Elberoth has made several posts in years past where he was able to identify the manufacturers of various driver models used in Magico speakers. As a the driving force behind Europe's second largest audio show, he is in a position of familiarity with a number of key high end audio component vendors. It seems that Magico has used a variety of driver manufacturers over the years. Magico's primary driver innovations have come in the cone elements (Magico's) used to complete the drivers used in their speakers. They may have also had their vendors make other custom alterations to achieve their goals.
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December 22, 2020, 09:51 AM #88
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
I sure do like the midrange on the MBL 101’s and 101 Xtremes! I would definitely say their drivers are SOTA.
How It's Made Omnidirectional Speakers P1 - YouTube
How It's Made Omnidirectional Speakers P2 - YouTubeMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
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December 22, 2020, 12:32 PM #89_______________
Mike
Amplification: MBL 6010D, MBL 9008A Monos
Analog: Kuzma R, Kuzma 4Point (11”), MSL Ultra Eminent EX
Phono Pre: Pass XP-27
Digital: Esoteric N01XD Esoteric K05
Speakers: MBL 101E MKII
Subwoofers: REL Carbon Specials
Conditioner: Shunyata Triton 3
Power Cables: Shunyata Sigma 1 & 2, Alpha 2, Delta and Venom
ICs and SCs: Wireworld Platinum 8
Rack: Artesania Exoteryc
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December 22, 2020, 02:40 PM #90
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
Looks like they might have used the basket and voice coil and that's it. EA used the stock 120mm magnet while Magico doubled it with, "a second matching magnet on top for complete control of voice coil movement". For the cone EA used the stock ceramic and Magico uses their own Nano-Tec cones with Aluminum honeycomb core. Also, if the picture on Magico’s site is correct, it looks like a completely different driver and possibly nothing is leveraged from Accuton.
Accuton (EA stock driver)
s280-6-282.jpg
Magico (partial to no leverage from Accuton)
AHC+COne.jpg4x20A circuits | Shunyata Triton + Typhon | Source 1: HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen -> Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, Squeezebox, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | TotalDAC Live PSU + D1 Twelve Mk II DAC + Mk II streamer | Source 2: Acoustic Signature Ascona TT | Kuzma 4 point tonearm | Koetsu Rosewood Signature cart | Pass XP-15 phono pre | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya Spirits | 4 JL Audio Fathom subs | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech King jumpers, Shunyata/Audioquest PCs / Eth. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Altair reference and Eris II racks | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room
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January 2, 2021, 01:47 PM #91
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Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
I´m with you
In 2015 i said here about the Marten Coltrane and ceramic drivers
ULTIMATE SESSIONS NO PORTO
Several brands have experimented with most diverse materials in the pursuit of greater rigidity and lightness of the cones, often looking for an opening that ends up sounding artificial. Among others, Focal has followed its own line and Monitor Audio (among others) is well known for its projects using metal. In the past audioshow I heard Raidho for the first time with their ceramic cones and the sound didn't quite convince me. In this material, only Thiel left me with a good memory. Still, I continued to prefer the “card” (and its variants or composites). But in this second contact with Marten, did I confirm the naturalness of the ceramic drivers used lend sound reproduction. They give the sound an opening that never sounds artificial, a clarity that never outshines. The timbres are therefore the most natural that I have ever heard.
Unfortunately they are not for my wallet
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January 23, 2021, 10:20 AM #92
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
I just noticed this speaker system, which may be trying to combine most of the "exotic" driver materials into one system
Rob
__________________________
Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
Adona rack, Stillpoints, IsoPods, ASC, GIK Acoustics accessories
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January 23, 2021, 10:28 PM #93
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
HG Wells Griffin model??
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January 24, 2021, 10:56 AM #94
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
Sorry, something happened to the link that was meant to be included?
High-end acoustic speaker with absolute neutrality | Sonus faberRob
__________________________
Tascam BR-20; Technics 1506 with tape path upgrades, FM head, DeHavilland 222 tape head pre; Modwright Oppo 205 full tube mod w/LPS; Euphony Summus server, EtherRegen, HDPLEX LPS; MSB Discrete DAC (dual PS, ISLPro, balanced out); Pass Labs XP-12, XA60.8 (pair); Daedalus Audio Apollo 11’s, VMPS Larger Sub; Daedalus/Wywires, Acoustic Zen, Sablon Audio, Wireworld, Shunyata Research cables; Core Power Equi=Power;
Adona rack, Stillpoints, IsoPods, ASC, GIK Acoustics accessories
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January 24, 2021, 11:56 AM #95
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
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February 6, 2021, 02:37 PM #96
Re: Are exotic material drivers required for a SOTA loudspeaker?
Maybe. If you go to ASR then all you need is to find a speaker with some good spins and a decent modern class d amp, any dac will do as they all measure within our hearing ability. A sota system shouldn't cost more than a few thousand dollars, the problem with you audiophiles is you let your ears fool you.
KEF Blade, Mc-611's, C49 rega jupiter, roon nucleus, revox tuner. Meridian dsp8000 se upgrade, meridian 218 zone controller VA Beethoven's, Hegel h360.
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February 6, 2021, 11:00 PM #97
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February 6, 2021, 11:10 PM #98
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February 6, 2021, 11:24 PM #99
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
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Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
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I upgraded the power supply on my Gigafoil v4 to a Weiss PSU 102. It’s very nice step up. But with the new model, you’re looking at $2000 before even investing in a SOTA linear power supply.
GigaFoil v4 Inline Ethernet Filter