Avantgarde Speakers

**Mike** · May 25, 2015, 03:08 PM

Any love for Avantgarde Speakers?

Info:

http://www.avantgarde-acoustic.de/du...sheet_engl.pdf

**socfan12** · May 25, 2015, 03:15 PM

Where's Howie...?

**asiufy** · May 25, 2015, 04:04 PM

Yup

These are particularly impressive:

For me, this is the "retirement" speaker. When you don't want to mess around with cables and multiple pieces. Sounds fantastic too!

It's also perfect for a 2nd, living room system.

alexandre

**MDP** · May 25, 2015, 04:10 PM

I love the look of the Green Pearl Horn in the link you posted.

**highEndguy** · May 25, 2015, 04:31 PM

Me !!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**annapolis Raider** · May 25, 2015, 04:55 PM

Love mine... 3rd different pair I've owned over the years.....

**microstrip** · May 25, 2015, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Any love for Avantgarde Speakers?

Info:

http://www.avantgarde-acoustic.de/du...sheet_engl.pdf

Yes!!! Although most of the time I have seen them sounding really miserable due to poor choice of system or rooms in shows or shops, I have once listened to them using the old Modell 5 or 3 Avantgarde solid state integrated amplifier and it was a surreal sound experience - coherency, presence and timbre. No typical "horn" it sounded just like music. I think that the system was set up by Holger Fromme or Matthias Ruff and I congratulated them - it was a decade ago and I do not remember the details anymore.

I still dream about a pair of Trio's ...

**CPP** · May 25, 2015, 05:23 PM

To darn big for any room in my home.

**joeinid** · May 25, 2015, 05:33 PM

I'd love a pair

**Audioseduction** · May 25, 2015, 05:55 PM

Not my cup of tea. They always sound like a PA system to me.

**Mike** · May 25, 2015, 11:21 PM

I think this is Jerry Seh's setup.

**a.wayne** · May 25, 2015, 11:29 PM

Clean looking setup , very nice ..........

**stump** · May 25, 2015, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

I think this is Jerry Seh's setup.

I heard them in Singapore and the one in this pic is my "Want to Own One Day" speakers

Stump

**cmalak** · May 26, 2015, 12:01 AM

Mike...those are Jerry's speakers. He posts here infrequently from time to time.

**asiufy** · May 26, 2015, 01:34 AM

Wow, Jerry has good taste

The pair we're going to exhibit at THE Show is in that exact same configuration (wood/horn color)!
It's gorgeous, the finish is exquisite!

alexandre

**wisnon** · May 26, 2015, 02:41 AM

Miguelito has some with Absolare gear and I guess you say this?

Lampizator, HQ Player, Audiopax, Avante Garde: Digital Done Right. | AudioStream

**Jerry Seh** · May 26, 2015, 04:45 AM

Yes guys, I do post - but infrequently. Sorry about this as I am tied up with new job assignments which require a lot of my time to manage as well as travel (to UK).

The picture indeed is my current system, although I must add I have collected some NIB/Mint new vintage pieces as I am also building my vintage dream - to realise my desire to hear 70's/80's music using the same period gears. Amassed a set of McIntosh 60th Anniversary C22/Mc75 (still in box), MCD1100 CD/SACD player, a completely rebuild Thorens TD160 Super MKII, SME M2-9 tonearm with an Ortofon Mono cartridge (from Vinyl Nirvana - he does an excellent job) - to play Mono records. The rest will still be McIntosh gears (MT5 TT, MVP891, MR87 Tuner - MR88 won't work over this side of the world) as I do like to gaze at Mc stuff in the dark of the night. Speakers? Well, many have crossed my mind, but I am tied on Vintage rebuild Paragons from Kendrick Audio, Japan or a new pair of Tannoy Westminsters. The last will determine the fate of my current system as I don't have a huge place to have these humongous speakers even though I am looking around for a new house. BUT that does not in anyway undermine the current AV setup as they are great speakers having none of the horns bad characteristics. If the change is on course, its because of my desire to run back the clock - listening to vintage music thru mostly vintage gears.
As for Howie, he has moved on from the initial home test of the AV Duo Primos, and now probably listening to a pair of SF Aida with Constellation powering them. I may be meeting him sometime mid June as will be coming down from China (Shanghai) to HK on the way back home mid June.
Thats all from me .... but if anyone wanted a pair of the AV, they are keepers. For me, its just a realisation of a childhood dream thats why the change and not because of anything else. If I have the space, I'll keep the current system too!
Cheers!

**wisnon** · May 26, 2015, 05:15 AM

A pal of mine in Boston has a pair of Duos that he just could not to please him fully and debated selling them for 5 years (thank goodness he is a procrastinator). The main problem was the self-powered bass not keeping up with the horns and he was using an Audio-Tekne 8wpc SET amp.

All changed when our mutual friend (the one that did the demo session with me at Goldmunds a month ago) loaned him one of his Job 225 amps (plus he was doing work on his listening room downstairs and had to displace his system upstairs in the living room -with Cathedral ceiling). The sound exploded! The bass got REALLY fast and easily kept up with the horns...and he was extremely puzzled as his bass module was self powered. I told this to the AG rep at the last Zurich Show and he sais he was NOT surprised. Apparently, the bass modules are only powered up to 150hz and that the wide bandwidth-super fast Job amps were taking over the upper bass work and hence the MUCH better driver integration. The A-T amp was just too slow. All this with a Sony SACD player and the Goldmund Metis 2 preamp. He found he did not need the Job mono-blocs now Telos amps, as the load is not that heavey and the 225 is more than capable. He put back in his old Gen 3 Lampizator and again moved up a notch...with totally black background. He is now thinking of updating his Lampi to a Gen 5. When I showed him the report of the Sound Galleries Monaco system from Munich, he was not surprised as AudioPax amps were always known to be a good match for AG speakers.

Now my pal is LOVING his system and will likely sell off his 2nd system (AT Carbon speakers with AT SET amp).

**astrotoy** · May 26, 2015, 05:18 AM

That system looks spectacular! I have an old Avantgarde system from the early 2000's. 5.1, with AV being the 5 part, A pair of Duos for Left Right and 3 Solos for center and rears. I have a custom switch that allows me to use the Duos in both stereo and 5.1 configuration, with wired remote from my listening chair. I am currently traveling, so I don't have a shot of the system to show you. Dom Brulhart from Merging Technologies visited me a few years ago and took a picture of my system which shows the AV LCR speakers. It is on the Merging website, under SACD mastering as the background shot - although I don't do any SACD mastering. The picture gives a pretty good view of my system from about 6 years ago. Speakers haven't changed. Sorry I can't post a link - their website seems to be down at the moment.

Larry

**KeithR** · May 26, 2015, 11:26 AM

Avantgarde Trios w/ basshorns driven by a BAT-VK75SE was an amazing audiophile moment around 10 years ago at the SF Stereophile Show. I've never seen an audience give a standing ovation after a demo- in this case, after Pink Floyd's The Wall. I've always wanted to own a pair.

Looking forward to hearing the new versions this week in Newport- apparently the bass is much better integrated. The Unos/Duos look much better as well.

**Jim Smith** · May 26, 2015, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by KeithR

Avantgarde Trios w/ basshorns driven by a BAT-VK75SE was an amazing audiophile moment around 10 years ago at the SF Stereophile Show. I've never seen an audience give a standing ovation after a demo- in this case, after Pink Floyd's The Wall.

It was at the S.F. Stereophile Show in 2003.

Robert Harley and Srajan Ebaen both commented on the applause.

I voiced the system. The applause at the end of each demo was consistent in two ways - (1) It happened with nearly every demo - (2) I was amazed every time it happened!

If you would kindly overlook the shameless capitalistic plug - there is an interesting back story to that event that I tell in my upcoming audiophile tool kit - Through the Sound Barrier.

**MDP** · May 26, 2015, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Smith

It was at the S.F. Stereophile Show in 2003.

Robert Harley and Srajan Ebaen both commented on the applause.

I voiced the system. The applause at the end of each demo was consistent in two ways - (1) It happened with nearly every demo - (2) I was amazed every time it happened!

If you would kindly overlook the shameless capitalistic plug - there is an interesting back story to that event that I tell in my upcoming audiophile tool kit - Through the Sound Barrier.

Jim, That's exactly why I emailed you about setting up my system as soon as I move to Georgia!

**billhart** · May 26, 2015, 04:49 PM

http://

Had my pair since around 2006, long used Lamm ML 2 SETs.

**Mike** · May 26, 2015, 05:19 PM

Beautiful Bill!

**ozarktom** · May 26, 2015, 09:47 PM

A buddy of mine had a pair for about six months, but could not get the system sounding right. He was using the Wavelength Cardinal amps for power.

**MDP** · May 29, 2015, 07:40 AM

I've been reading their website intensely.

I would love the chance to hear the Duo's !!

**wisnon** · May 29, 2015, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by MDP

I've been reading their website intensely.

I would love the chance to hear the Duo's !!

If you do, make sure to use high bandwidth, very fast amps...it will pay dividends...

**KeithR** · May 29, 2015, 11:34 AM

Yeah, I'd look at First Watt amps in addition to good tube options. The SIT-1 in particular. At 104dbs and above efficiency, the AGs are a perfect fit for them and as I recall Nelson uses custom horns at home.

**Jerry Seh** · May 29, 2015, 07:58 PM

Seriously, the AV's own pre/power, so far, seems to me the best fit. I guess it had to be after listening to Ongaku's, Souga's, Air Tight 211's, all seem nice, but dollar to dollar value to performance, the AV can't be topped. Value for money I must say. And being well designed SS, they are fast, tight and musical (like tubes).

**nicoludio** · June 1, 2015, 08:14 AM

I like the Avantgarde Uno Finos - very reasonably priced for what they offer. Heard them driven by a Silbatone Acoustics DAC and 8W 300B SET integrated amplifier - seriously gorgeous looking (and priced accordingly).

What struck me was the scale of the sound, the sense of ease and unlimited dynamics as well as the lack of compression. The separation between the performers on stage as distinct bodies/sounds was evident, and one could follow a line or the whole.

The soundstage did not have much depth but I understand that this is typical of horns. The sound has a certain immediacy and presence, especially the mids. If one had to pick a fault, the vocals were slightly less open and had a tinge of nasality/colouration, but still beautiful sounding. Perhaps, using them with AVG's own pre/power amps may ameliorate this.

Here's a review on ETM:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superio...c_uno_fino.htm

**nicoludio** · June 1, 2015, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by Jerry Seh

Seriously, the AV's own pre/power, so far, seems to me the best fit. I guess it had to be after listening to Ongaku's, Souga's, Air Tight 211's, all seem nice, but dollar to dollar value to performance, the AV can't be topped. Value for money I must say. And being well designed SS, they are fast, tight and musical (like tubes).

Yes, and quite innovative technologies utilised too.

Looking at the build quality, one wonders how AVG managed to price their top line products at what other manufacturers would reserve for their entry level products.

Perhaps there is a certain logic in using a 150W amplifier for >104 dB sensitivity speakers after all.

Btw, would you be able to share how the Ongakus, etc sounded with your Duo Mezzos? Besides value for money, are the AVG electronics still the best match?

**MDP** · June 1, 2015, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by nfnc

Yes, and quite innovative technologies utilised too.

Looking at the build quality, one wonders how AVG managed to price their top line products at what other manufacturers would reserve for their entry level products.

Perhaps there is a certain logic in using a 150W amplifier for >104 dB sensitivity speakers after all.

Btw, would you be able to share how the Ongakus, etc sounded with your Duo Mezzos? Besides value for money, are the AVG electronics still the best match?

Great post.
I'm very interested on finding out how these speakers sound, and what electronics work best.

**asiufy** · June 2, 2015, 02:12 AM

Guys,

I've heard Duos (two different models) and Trios, and they all sounded best with tube amps.
A friend had Audiopax 88s (25W) on his Duos, and when I took the new Audiopax Maggiore 50 (50W) amps, these was a substantial improvement in the flow of the music. Even at 100+dB, they appreciate more power. Next in line for a tryout are the 100W Audiopax Maggiore 100

I'll also try a darTZeel SS amp, and see how it fares against tubes...

alex

**asiufy** · June 2, 2015, 02:13 AM

Oh while we're at it, here's a pic of Duo Mezzos at THE Show Newport Beach (w/ Audiopax).

**nicoludio** · June 2, 2015, 04:17 AM

Originally Posted by asiufy

Guys,

I've heard Duos (two different models) and Trios, and they all sounded best with tube amps.
A friend had Audiopax 88s (25W) on his Duos, and when I took the new Audiopax Maggiore 50 (50W) amps, these was a substantial improvement in the flow of the music. Even at 100+dB, they appreciate more power. Next in line for a tryout are the 100W Audiopax Maggiore 100

I'll also try a darTZeel SS amp, and see how it fares against tubes...

alex

Alex, have you tried the XA pre/power amps? Would seem to be synergistic given that the amps were designed to compliment the speakers and vice-versa.

Having said that, most of the guys at my local dealer prefer to initially demonstrate the AVG speakers with Audio Note/Air Tight low wattage SET integrateds. Could have a commercial angle though - it is easier for a customer to choose to buy the speakers with a view to using $3-5k tube/SET integrated vs a $20+k XA pre/power.

**annapolis Raider** · June 2, 2015, 08:44 AM

One word of advice to anyone considering Avantgardes, forget the super high efficiency ratings. To achieve the proper integration at the crossover to the sub and dynamics in the bass, power is required. The more the better. I would NEVER use a low rated SET amp on them. Lots of good experiences out there with relatively inexpensive solid state. Job, Valvet, Pass (not the First Watts) are all excellent matches as well as Avantgardes own amps.

**Jerry Seh** · June 3, 2015, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by nfnc

Yes, and quite innovative technologies utilised too.

Looking at the build quality, one wonders how AVG managed to price their top line products at what other manufacturers would reserve for their entry level products.

Perhaps there is a certain logic in using a 150W amplifier for >104 dB sensitivity speakers after all.

Btw, would you be able to share how the Ongakus, etc sounded with your Duo Mezzos? Besides value for money, are the AVG electronics still the best match?

Its been almost close to 2 years since I last heard the Mezzo G2's with Sougas, Ongaku's and Air Tight 211.

1. The Kondo tube stuff are intoxicating. Tube magic at its best. But so is the pricing.
2. The Air Tight combo of ATE2001 + 211 Mono are about just as good. I could not draw a number, close very close to the Kondo stuff. The difference, if one wanted to nit pick would probably be the pride of ownership of one of the best tube amps in the business.
3. The AV X Pre/Power then came along and the pricing, compared to both the Air Tight combo and Kondo stuff seems more "reasonable" given the build like a tank quality. Sound wise, its musical and I believe AV would not have done this combo without much voicing and thought thru, after all, they did made some amps before this pair, integrated (2 models prior) and one heavily priced and not so great looking Pre/Power.

In the end, given the price difference and the closeness and I think, the best voiced and matched pre/power, I selected the AV. Till today, I can never fault the combination and each time, the music just flows. I no longer nit pick on anything except relaxing and listening to the music - and of course, looking at the monumental fine furniture look of the pilasander wood on both the amps and the speakers.

If not for the one desire to finding out how 70's music on vinyl sounds like on 70's equipment, which prompted me on the search to building one such system, this would have been my retirement system.

So far, for the vintage system, I have narrowed the speakers search to JBL's Paragon or the much cheaper L300, all restored to mint new conditions (from Kendrick). Yet to decide. As for amps, I have managed to obtain a mint McIntosh C22/MC75 Mono, which fits the time span of the 70's. The restored Thorens TD160 Super MKII will play the mono vinyls. The rest, I am still searching. No rush as I am just doing something to quench my "thirst for knowing how 70's would sound in a 70's system". I guess I must be growing old ... to start appreciating "antique hifi".

Cheers!

**nicoludio** · June 3, 2015, 11:45 AM

Thank you for the detailed response.

Honestly, I don't think that one can go wrong with AVG electronics - their speakers were voiced with them after all. Plus, great value for money, with the ability to customise the look.

In addition, for a non-boutique manufacturer,they are quite flexible. If necessary, they are even prepared to modify the sensitivity of the second power amp input to match a non-AVG DAC/pre amp. No attitude.

On the vintage hi-fi quest, I wish you all the best in your journey. That's the beauty with this hobby of ours. There should not be any wrong or right way. At the end of the day, it is the music and the enjoyment that we get from listening to our systems - different ways for different tastes. Lucky are those who have found the system that matches their tastes.

**asiufy** · June 4, 2015, 12:55 PM

I was done setting up our rooms, post-THE Show, so I figured I'd have some fun "rearranging" a few things...

So I took darTZeel's new 200W integrated amp (w/ DAC+streamer) and hooked it up to our 104dB-sensitive Avantgardes!

That couldn't work, right?

But it did!

The transparency is breathtaking, the dynamic realism, the little nuances... Nice

It's definitely a lot of fun having these "toys" around to play with!

Folks in SoCal are welcome to stop by!

**Mike Lavigne** · June 4, 2015, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by asiufy

I was done setting up our rooms, post-THE Show, so I figured I'd have some fun "rearranging" a few things...

So I took darTZeel's new 200W integrated amp (w/ DAC+streamer) and hooked it up to our 104dB-sensitive Avantgardes!

That couldn't work, right?

But it did!

The transparency is breathtaking, the dynamic realism, the little nuances... Nice

It's definitely a lot of fun having these "toys" around to play with!

Folks in SoCal are welcome to stop by!

i'm not surprised....and good to know.

the amp in that dart integrated reminds me of my 458 monos. low parts count, no global feedback, very quiet, grain less, and no trace of hardness. and clearly on a 104db speaker it's 'first watt purity' is fully exposed.

**asiufy** · June 4, 2015, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne

i'm not surprised....and good to know.

the amp in that dart integrated reminds me of my 458 monos. low parts count, no global feedback, very quiet, grain less, and no trace of hardness. and clearly on a 104db speaker it's 'first watt purity' is fully exposed.

Good to know they're closely related! It's nice having that feeling of drinking champagne on a beer budget!!!

**nicoludio** · June 4, 2015, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by asiufy

So I took darTZeel's new 200W integrated amp (w/ DAC+streamer) and hooked it up to our 104dB-sensitive Avantgardes!

Going OT a bit - how is the performance of the performance of the DAC/streamer section of the Dartzeel?

**KeithR** · June 4, 2015, 02:59 PM

cool, Alex. Will have to hear the inevitable Dart vs D'ag comparison at some point, too

**Mike Lavigne** · June 4, 2015, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by nfnc

Going OT a bit - how is the performance of the performance of the DAC/streamer section of the Dartzeel?

personally I think it is in the Playback Designs MPS-5 territory....which is pretty high. it could be better. I've been listening to Playback Designs with darTZeel pre and amps into Evolutions for 8 years. so that is quite familiar to me.

provisionally; it's as good a digital performance as I have heard in a familiar environment in a show. i'd need a direct comparison to say more than that.

at around $15k with that amp and dac it's a steal.

**nicoludio** · June 4, 2015, 03:47 PM

Very interesting. At $15k, it is priced slightly below the Avantgarde integrated but would offer better value due to its in-built DAC/streamer. Attractive all in one solution even for speakers other than AVG.

**wisnon** · June 4, 2015, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne

personally I think it is in the Playback Designs MPS-5 territory....which is pretty high. it could be better. I've been listening to Playback Designs with darTZeel pre and amps into Evolutions for 8 years. so that is quite familiar to me.

provisionally; it's as good a digital performance as I have heard in a familiar environment in a show. i'd need a direct comparison to say more than that.

at around $15k with that amp and dac it's a steal.

I spent the whole day Feb 14 listening to it (driving the MM Micros and Mini 2s). Should have spent last Saturday doing the same, but Herve had to cancel last minute. Perhaps we revist in July/Aug. Its a killer and will sell like hot cakes. Demand is not the issue, adequate supply is. Haute Fidelite (French) mag gave it a rave review months ago.

**asiufy** · June 4, 2015, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by nfnc

Going OT a bit - how is the performance of the performance of the DAC/streamer section of the Dartzeel?

It's fantastic, I think Hervé was able to extend the darTZeel "house sound" to the digital section of the amp, so it's a perfect match. For the money, it's great value, even if you factor in the savings in cables and such... Oh, and it's still made in Geneva

I agree with Mike L. that it's a touch like the Playback Designs DAC, as it has that particular smoothness and delicacy that's very appealing. With the extremely dynamic Avantgardes, it was just plain gorgeous.

The streamer is UPNP compliant, so any control point will work just fine with it. In THE Show, I've used Auralic's Lightning DS app, as I like the way it works/looks, and so I was able to easily and seamlessly switch between the two systems we had in the room! On Android, most of the apps suck, but BubblePNP is the least sucky of them all...

alex

**AudioKnight** · June 6, 2015, 05:14 AM

Heard them driven by Audio Note monoblocks. Awesome !

**nicoludio** · June 6, 2015, 03:18 PM

asiufy, I understand that there will be improvements to the AVG speakers in September, apparently with digital amplifiers and DSP for the bass modules. Do you have more details, and whether the changes apply to the Uno Fino? Thanks.

**AudioSalon** · June 6, 2015, 06:32 PM

This is an older discontinued Duo Version Alessandre?

Thread: Avantgarde Speakers

Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Re: Avantgarde Speakers

Posting Permissions