Active Speakers - would you consider?

Mike

Mike

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While in Munich, I heard some fabulous active speakers. And each year we are seeing a few more. B&W just announced the new Formation Series which is a full line of active speakers with Roon connectivity. KEF has the LS50W. Estelon had some large floor standers that were active. Goldmund has some nice active speakers too. There are many others.

Would active speakers be something you would consider? If no, why?
 
Actually thought about them many times. Would absolutely need a demo to make sure that I’d be able to achieve my style of sound but they are making more sense these days.
 
I am a KEF LS50W owner. It really is incredible the sound that can be achieved though these active speakers. I believe this category will explode in the coming years. I am using them in a second system, but if I fell on hard times and had to liquidate all of my gear, the LS50W would likely be all that would remain. Super high value. DSP. Analog inputs. Roon ready. Great sound. What’s not to like?
 
MPW said:
I am a KEF LS50W owner. It really is incredible the sound that can be achieved though these active speakers. I believe this category will explode in the coming years. I am using them in a second system, but if I fell on hard times and had to liquidate all of my gear, the LS50W would likely be all that would remain. Super high value. DSP. Analog inputs. Roon ready. Great sound. What’s not to like?
Click to expand...

I should also note that my 23 year old son purchased these for his apartment in Philly. He appreciates great sound and is a music lover, but a full hifi system doesn’t make sense to him. Active speakers bridge that gap.
 
Joe

There are only five dealers in the US including one in Brooklyn that are all Pro Audio outfits so I would have to buy sight unseen but it would let you eliminate a lot of gear and cables. A real alternative to the Ki III
 
Hearing the LS50W’s proved to me great sound can certainly be achieved from active speakers. Sure passive speakers with separate amplification offer a higher ceiling and more versatility and flavors, but the gap should be wider than it is.


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there are so many different active speaker approaches and different price points it's hard to have a general reaction to the concept.

if I had a lifestyle or budget need that a modest priced and minimal footprint active speaker based system accommodated then sure, why not? my wife uses a Sonus system inside the house, in the Kitchen, upstairs in the bedroom, and outside. it uses my mirroring NAS and Roon/Tidal and fits her perfectly. but she is not an audiophile and sonic quality is not her priority.

if I could live with digital only, something super simple and easy to use, and wanted top level performance then maybe a Goldmund active digital system might be the ticket.

if I wanted an uber horn system maybe the Magico Ultimate III 5 way active horns might scratch that itch.

but none of those scenarios fit my personal needs. I want a full range (and I mean full range) system that is coherent full range, and uncompromised analog sources, and I want the very best amplification I can get. that's not going to be active. my amps don't fit inside a speaker cabinet. I don't have a space limitation for active to answer that question.

if I was starting from scratch right now maybe the Goldmund direction would be a consideration.....but I'm not.

I've heard expensive active speakers sound like crap (big Meridians)......the odds of an active system really getting all the variables right is remote if the expectations are really high. at modest price points I think it makes lots of sense for those not needing upgradability.....as active is a dead-end.....to system building.

then there is resale value to consider if you do choose to upgrade. not sure active speakers are reasonable to sell. very limited market. that has to figure into 'cost to own'.
 
Yes, used to have the Avantgarde Zero XD.

Ultimately, I felt that the DAC section in the XD was a limiting factor instead of the active speaker concept as a whole.

This article provides some insights on the benefits of active speakers:

https://www.adam-audio.com/content/uploads/2016/09/active-vs-passive-speakers.pdf

Generally speaking, active speakers can be:

* active digital systems - included DAC, DSP, crossover and amplifiers

* active analog systems - included crossover and amplifiers

These can be built into one unit or externally (which somewhat negates part of the benefits of an active system).

I prefer the analog active system as that allows the option of upgrading the source, whether analog or digital.

Having said that, the digital active system does have more flexibility in that the built-in DSP allows for frequency, impulse, etc, as well as digital room correction in one package.

I have heard one of more highly regarded digital active systems, Grimm LS1be + LS1-dmf subwoofer: https://www.grimmaudio.com/hifi-products/loudspeakers/ls1be/. While impressive, it sound signature (or even looks) may not suit everyone.

An active speaker does lock one into the eco-system, and limits the options to tinker with the system. It would not appeal to those who like to upgrade or build systems.

The active speaker concept is promising and eliminates a bit of the trial and error in mixing and matching components.

It would be a major boost if there were more choices for analog active speakers in, say, the US25k - 50k range.

Sure, one would be locked in onto the amplifier + speaker cable + speaker interface chosen by the manufacturer, but that still leaves room to experiment with and upgrade the source components.
 
Mike Lavigne said:
I want a full range (and I mean full range) system that is coherent full range, and uncompromised analog sources
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A well engineered (vs fashion design) active will beat passive in the soundwaves>ears domain. Demonstrably so in physical reality/trust ears/just listen scenario. Out in the wild, all possibilities exist.

Mike Lavigne said:
my amps don't fit inside a speaker cabinet.
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That's a red herring. No law dictating internal amps. Exhibit A: Linkwitz speakers. Others, including any of mine also.

Mike Lavigne said:
and I want the very best amplification I can get.
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That of course, would be the dilemma, since "best" exists only in the mind of the audiophile, not physical reality, is 50 different things to 40 different audiophiles, depending on the minute of the day, direction of the wind, poll numbers, etc, etc....and subject to change, to put it mildly.
Possible with the Linkwitz configuration type scenario, but for optimal performance, would keep the original engineer/designer busy throughout the year. Or day.

cheers,

AJ
 
joeinid said:
Would absolutely need a demo to make sure that I’d be able to achieve my style of sound but they are making more sense these days.
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Joe, given the numbers of systems I've seen you go through, that speaker with your style of sound would have to be called "The Chameleon".

cheers,

AJ
 
The future sure seems to point in this direction.
One of my biggest concerns is when one of these speakers has a breakdown/failure.
You would have to box it up, ship it in, wait for who knows how long and then have to pay shipping again on the return.
All the while without any music.
If I have a preamp or DAC or something go down I can substitute with another one that I have or borrow one from a fellow audiophile.
With all that said, they do have some attractive features.
 
jadedavid said:
The future sure seems to point in this direction.
One of my biggest concerns is when one of these speakers has a breakdown/failure.
You would have to box it up
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No. Just like if a driver fails, as has happened countless times with passive speakers, you might have to unscrew/pull the amp out for an exchange. If you can't, then that's just shoddy design.
Hopefully with your passive speaker you don't have to ship entire thing back if a tweeter or woofer fails. Right?

cheers,

AJ
 
I think what’s missing from this discussion is several advantages:

1. Keeping the signal in the digital domain.
2. Eliminating a traditional crossover.
3. DSP
4. Active vs Wireless. Big difference. Wireless creates a whole new set of challenges. B&W’s proprietary new technology eliminates those challenges.

Downsides?

1. For the analog lovers, A2D2A is rarely ideal.
2. You can’t “flavor” with an amp (tube, a/b, a, etc)
3. You can’t “flavor” with a preamp, DAC or even cabling
 
AJ Soundfield said:
A well engineered (vs fashion design) active will beat passive in the soundwaves>ears domain. Demonstrably so in physical reality/trust ears/just listen scenario. Out in the wild, all possibilities exist.
Click to expand...

spoken like a guy who has a bias.

I do agree that all possibilities do exist. there is no technical reason active can't be better, or worse. it's all execution.

and I don't question your personal experience and conclusions with your own efforts. you have a right to your own opinion.

but since perceived performance is 'system' and 'room' dependent it's hard to prove your 'will beat' 'absolute'. when manufacturers tell us how something 'is' then I just roll my eyes. so much marketing hokum. so there are few risk takers doing active 'uber' speakers.

reality is that at the very top of the food chain the market does not support the active approach. buyers of the top level speakers want to choose their amplifiers. and are reluctant to have the signal path digitized.
 
Mike said:
Downsides?

1. For the analog lovers, A2D2A is rarely ideal.
2. You can’t “flavor” with an amp (tube, a/b, a, etc)
3. You can’t “flavor” with a preamp, DAC or even cabling
Click to expand...

With the Linkwitz config you can do all 3. Its an ASP, not DSP. Rare yes, but obviously possible. Nothing stopping others from doing so...other than Siegfried's(RIP) rarefied level of skills.
 
Mike Lavigne said:
there is no technical reason active can't be better, or worse.
Click to expand...
As I said Mike, it is demonstrably better. Sound>ears. Not "spoken".
You've been down that road once. You know.
Doesn't mean its the only way. Folks love choices. YMMV.

cheers,

AJ
 
I made an offer on an immaculate pair of dsp8k.2's and bought the se kit that has a be tweeter and new electronics. After installing 1 kit and listening to them side by side the differences aren't subtle and it really is a relief bypassing the component matching part that I never seem to 'get just right'.
 
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