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  1. #1
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    Active Speakers - would you consider?

    While in Munich, I heard some fabulous active speakers. And each year we are seeing a few more. B&W just announced the new Formation Series which is a full line of active speakers with Roon connectivity. KEF has the LS50W. Estelon had some large floor standers that were active. Goldmund has some nice active speakers too. There are many others.

    Would active speakers be something you would consider? If no, why?
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  2. #2
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Actually thought about them many times. Would absolutely need a demo to make sure that I’d be able to achieve my style of sound but they are making more sense these days.
    Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Avantgarde Duo XD, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Luxman 590AXII (incoming), Job INTegrated

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  3. #3
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    I am a KEF LS50W owner. It really is incredible the sound that can be achieved though these active speakers. I believe this category will explode in the coming years. I am using them in a second system, but if I fell on hard times and had to liquidate all of my gear, the LS50W would likely be all that would remain. Super high value. DSP. Analog inputs. Roon ready. Great sound. What’s not to like?
    Morgan

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  4. #4
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Quote Originally Posted by MPW View Post
    I am a KEF LS50W owner. It really is incredible the sound that can be achieved though these active speakers. I believe this category will explode in the coming years. I am using them in a second system, but if I fell on hard times and had to liquidate all of my gear, the LS50W would likely be all that would remain. Super high value. DSP. Analog inputs. Roon ready. Great sound. What’s not to like?
    I should also note that my 23 year old son purchased these for his apartment in Philly. He appreciates great sound and is a music lover, but a full hifi system doesn’t make sense to him. Active speakers bridge that gap.
    Morgan

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    DIGITAL Marantz SA-10, Bluesound Node 2, Intel NUC Roon Core
    VINYL EAT C-Sharp, Hana SL, EAT E-Glo S w/LPS
    POWER AudioQuest Niagara 5000 on dedicated 20 amp/10 gauge circuit
    WIRES AudioQuest William Tell, Earth, Leopard, Tornado
    RESONANCE/ISOLATION Nordost Sort Kones - BC & AC, Herbie's Giant Decoupling Gliders

  5. #5
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    If I was starting from scratch these would be at the top of my list.

    https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revie...r-review-r739/
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Nuprime CDT-8, Auralic Aries G1, Aqua La Voce S3, Supratek Chardonnay, Van Alstine Vision SET-400, Fritz Carrera Be, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC's & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, USB & SC's, PS Audio Stellar P3, PI Audio Uberbuss, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Teac NT-505, Audia Flight FL Three S, Reynaud Abscisse Jubilee, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Audio Sensibility SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

  6. #6
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Those look awesome. Great article. Thanks Jack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    If I was starting from scratch these would be at the top of my list.

    https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revie...r-review-r739/
    Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Avantgarde Duo XD, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Luxman 590AXII (incoming), Job INTegrated

    Conrad Johnson GAT2, Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE Stage 2, Misho Myronov Wooden pre.

    Misho Myronov Wooden amp, First Watt SIT-3 (x 2 - one as backup), First Watt F7 (incoming), Job 250 Monos, Valvet E2se, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos.

    RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, Lumin U1 mini, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES, Audio Mirror Tubadour III NOS R2R Tube Dac w/ SE upgrades.

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  7. #7
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Joe

    There are only five dealers in the US including one in Brooklyn that are all Pro Audio outfits so I would have to buy sight unseen but it would let you eliminate a lot of gear and cables. A real alternative to the Ki III
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Nuprime CDT-8, Auralic Aries G1, Aqua La Voce S3, Supratek Chardonnay, Van Alstine Vision SET-400, Fritz Carrera Be, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC's & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, USB & SC's, PS Audio Stellar P3, PI Audio Uberbuss, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Teac NT-505, Audia Flight FL Three S, Reynaud Abscisse Jubilee, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Audio Sensibility SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

  8. #8

    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Hearing the LS50W’s proved to me great sound can certainly be achieved from active speakers. Sure passive speakers with separate amplification offer a higher ceiling and more versatility and flavors, but the gap should be wider than it is.


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  9. #9
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    there are so many different active speaker approaches and different price points it's hard to have a general reaction to the concept.

    if I had a lifestyle or budget need that a modest priced and minimal footprint active speaker based system accommodated then sure, why not? my wife uses a Sonus system inside the house, in the Kitchen, upstairs in the bedroom, and outside. it uses my mirroring NAS and Roon/Tidal and fits her perfectly. but she is not an audiophile and sonic quality is not her priority.

    if I could live with digital only, something super simple and easy to use, and wanted top level performance then maybe a Goldmund active digital system might be the ticket.

    if I wanted an uber horn system maybe the Magico Ultimate III 5 way active horns might scratch that itch.

    but none of those scenarios fit my personal needs. I want a full range (and I mean full range) system that is coherent full range, and uncompromised analog sources, and I want the very best amplification I can get. that's not going to be active. my amps don't fit inside a speaker cabinet. I don't have a space limitation for active to answer that question.

    if I was starting from scratch right now maybe the Goldmund direction would be a consideration.....but I'm not.

    I've heard expensive active speakers sound like crap (big Meridians)......the odds of an active system really getting all the variables right is remote if the expectations are really high. at modest price points I think it makes lots of sense for those not needing upgradability.....as active is a dead-end.....to system building.

    then there is resale value to consider if you do choose to upgrade. not sure active speakers are reasonable to sell. very limited market. that has to figure into 'cost to own'.

  10. #10

    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Yes, used to have the Avantgarde Zero XD.

    Ultimately, I felt that the DAC section in the XD was a limiting factor instead of the active speaker concept as a whole.

    This article provides some insights on the benefits of active speakers:

    https://www.adam-audio.com/content/u...e-speakers.pdf

    Generally speaking, active speakers can be:

    * active digital systems - included DAC, DSP, crossover and amplifiers

    * active analog systems - included crossover and amplifiers

    These can be built into one unit or externally (which somewhat negates part of the benefits of an active system).

    I prefer the analog active system as that allows the option of upgrading the source, whether analog or digital.

    Having said that, the digital active system does have more flexibility in that the built-in DSP allows for frequency, impulse, etc, as well as digital room correction in one package.

    I have heard one of more highly regarded digital active systems, Grimm LS1be + LS1-dmf subwoofer: https://www.grimmaudio.com/hifi-prod...peakers/ls1be/. While impressive, it sound signature (or even looks) may not suit everyone.

    An active speaker does lock one into the eco-system, and limits the options to tinker with the system. It would not appeal to those who like to upgrade or build systems.

    The active speaker concept is promising and eliminates a bit of the trial and error in mixing and matching components.

    It would be a major boost if there were more choices for analog active speakers in, say, the US25k - 50k range.

    Sure, one would be locked in onto the amplifier + speaker cable + speaker interface chosen by the manufacturer, but that still leaves room to experiment with and upgrade the source components.

  11. #11
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne View Post
    I want a full range (and I mean full range) system that is coherent full range, and uncompromised analog sources
    A well engineered (vs fashion design) active will beat passive in the soundwaves>ears domain. Demonstrably so in physical reality/trust ears/just listen scenario. Out in the wild, all possibilities exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne View Post
    my amps don't fit inside a speaker cabinet.
    That's a red herring. No law dictating internal amps. Exhibit A: Linkwitz speakers. Others, including any of mine also.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne View Post
    and I want the very best amplification I can get.
    That of course, would be the dilemma, since "best" exists only in the mind of the audiophile, not physical reality, is 50 different things to 40 different audiophiles, depending on the minute of the day, direction of the wind, poll numbers, etc, etc....and subject to change, to put it mildly.
    Possible with the Linkwitz configuration type scenario, but for optimal performance, would keep the original engineer/designer busy throughout the year. Or day.

    cheers,

    AJ

  12. #12
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Quote Originally Posted by joeinid View Post
    Would absolutely need a demo to make sure that I’d be able to achieve my style of sound but they are making more sense these days.
    Joe, given the numbers of systems I've seen you go through, that speaker with your style of sound would have to be called "The Chameleon".

    cheers,

    AJ

  13. #13
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    The future sure seems to point in this direction.
    One of my biggest concerns is when one of these speakers has a breakdown/failure.
    You would have to box it up, ship it in, wait for who knows how long and then have to pay shipping again on the return.
    All the while without any music.
    If I have a preamp or DAC or something go down I can substitute with another one that I have or borrow one from a fellow audiophile.
    With all that said, they do have some attractive features.
    My System:
    A trusty old Pioneer PD-65 as a Transport, Lumin A-1, a Merrill Heirloom T.T. as sources. A Lampizator DAC to Teo Cables to a SP-14 Tubed PreAmp, Pass XA30.5 , Fusion speaker cables, AudioKinesis Zephryn 46 Speakers. pair Rythmik F-12 subs, EP2050, Kaplan Power cables, Cerious Tech Graphine XT P.C., Hydra power conditioner, Two dedicated 20Amp power lines. DIY corner traps and Acoustic Geometry Curves for room treatment.

  14. #14
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Quote Originally Posted by jadedavid View Post
    The future sure seems to point in this direction.
    One of my biggest concerns is when one of these speakers has a breakdown/failure.
    You would have to box it up
    No. Just like if a driver fails, as has happened countless times with passive speakers, you might have to unscrew/pull the amp out for an exchange. If you can't, then that's just shoddy design.
    Hopefully with your passive speaker you don't have to ship entire thing back if a tweeter or woofer fails. Right?

    cheers,

    AJ

  15. #15
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    I think what’s missing from this discussion is several advantages:

    1. Keeping the signal in the digital domain.
    2. Eliminating a traditional crossover.
    3. DSP
    4. Active vs Wireless. Big difference. Wireless creates a whole new set of challenges. B&W’s proprietary new technology eliminates those challenges.

    Downsides?

    1. For the analog lovers, A2D2A is rarely ideal.
    2. You can’t “flavor” with an amp (tube, a/b, a, etc)
    3. You can’t “flavor” with a preamp, DAC or even cabling
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  16. #16
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    A well engineered (vs fashion design) active will beat passive in the soundwaves>ears domain. Demonstrably so in physical reality/trust ears/just listen scenario. Out in the wild, all possibilities exist.
    spoken like a guy who has a bias.

    I do agree that all possibilities do exist. there is no technical reason active can't be better, or worse. it's all execution.

    and I don't question your personal experience and conclusions with your own efforts. you have a right to your own opinion.

    but since perceived performance is 'system' and 'room' dependent it's hard to prove your 'will beat' 'absolute'. when manufacturers tell us how something 'is' then I just roll my eyes. so much marketing hokum. so there are few risk takers doing active 'uber' speakers.

    reality is that at the very top of the food chain the market does not support the active approach. buyers of the top level speakers want to choose their amplifiers. and are reluctant to have the signal path digitized.

  17. #17
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Downsides?

    1. For the analog lovers, A2D2A is rarely ideal.
    2. You can’t “flavor” with an amp (tube, a/b, a, etc)
    3. You can’t “flavor” with a preamp, DAC or even cabling
    With the Linkwitz config you can do all 3. Its an ASP, not DSP. Rare yes, but obviously possible. Nothing stopping others from doing so...other than Siegfried's(RIP) rarefied level of skills.

  18. #18
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne View Post
    there is no technical reason active can't be better, or worse.
    As I said Mike, it is demonstrably better. Sound>ears. Not "spoken".
    You've been down that road once. You know.
    Doesn't mean its the only way. Folks love choices. YMMV.

    cheers,

    AJ

  19. #19
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    I made an offer on an immaculate pair of dsp8k.2's and bought the se kit that has a be tweeter and new electronics. After installing 1 kit and listening to them side by side the differences aren't subtle and it really is a relief bypassing the component matching part that I never seem to 'get just right'.
    Meridian dsp8000 se upgrade, meridian 218 zone controller, VA Beethovens, , Hegel h360, rega jupiter, roon nucleus, revox tuner.

  20. #20
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Meridian we presume? They sell user kits to swap out drivers and electronics?

  21. #21

    Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I think what’s missing from this discussion is several advantages:

    1. Keeping the signal in the digital domain.
    2. Eliminating a traditional crossover.
    3. DSP
    4. Active vs Wireless. Big difference. Wireless creates a whole new set of challenges. B&W’s proprietary new technology eliminates those challenges.
    One more advantage is the direct coupling between the amplifier and the speaker - no passive crossover components in the way.

    1. can be a disadvantage. There has to be D2A before amplification. Providing one high end D2A for each frequency channel can be expensive.

    2. analog input active speakers also eliminate the traditional crossover. The frequency is split at the low level signal stage before amplification.

    3. DSP can be achieved at the DAC, such as the Weiss DAC502.

    4. Wireless is limited to 24/96, for now. Digital input active speakers, afaik, only accept up to 24/192 and PCM only. DSD signals have to be converted to PCM for DSP and digital crossover purposes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post

    Downsides?

    1. For the analog lovers, A2D2A is rarely ideal.
    2. You can’t “flavor” with an amp (tube, a/b, a, etc)
    3. You can’t “flavor” with a preamp, DAC or even cabling
    With an analog input active speaker (instead of a digital input active speaker), one can “flavour” by the choice of DAC / preamps and other sources.

    Even with digital input speakers, depending on the system, one can still “flavour” with the digital server/source/CD or SACD transport & digital cables - ethernet / SPDIF or AES / USB.


    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    With the Linkwitz config you can do all 3. Its an ASP, not DSP. Rare yes, but obviously possible. Nothing stopping others from doing so...other than Siegfried's(RIP) rarefied level of skills.
    +1

  22. #22
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Meridian sells Special Edition kits that have everything but the shiny rings that the newest speakers have, but they're pricey, really pricey and it took me some time ti find a dealer to sell me a pair I could afford.
    I've noticed lately when reselling a pair of speakers that for whatever reason didn't make the cut, when the buyers first come 0ver to listen they seem a bit let down, even confused but after a half hour or so everybodys ears adjust and the speakers sell. go figure
    Meridian dsp8000 se upgrade, meridian 218 zone controller, VA Beethovens, , Hegel h360, rega jupiter, roon nucleus, revox tuner.

  23. #23
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    I do think that as expectations increase for ultimate real in-room lower octave performance with top level speakers, that the active approach has huge advantages. active makes it much more likely to get room-speaker hookup and smooth lower octaves. and it allows for amplifier choice for the passive part of the speaker to have much greater latitude.....as it's not being called on to do as much.

    my last 3 sets of speakers (since 2005) are/were active in the lower octaves.....passive on top.

    which is a completely separate topic than this thread but only wanted to point out that we should use the best possible tools to find musical reproduction bliss, and active bass is one of those tools.

  24. #24
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Quote Originally Posted by steve59 View Post
    Meridian sells Special Edition kits that have everything but the shiny rings that the newest speakers have, but they're pricey, really pricey and it took me some time ti find a dealer to sell me a pair I could afford.
    So the upgrade kits are not sold direct, but only through dealers?
    And again, you did the actual swapping yourself?

    Regardless, as I said, nothing stopping "user" upgrades with active. Other than user.

  25. #25

    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    I used to own the Meridian DSP 8000s and they were excellent nd very convenient. All you need is some Cat 5/6/7 cable to reach your speakers. I still have the DSP 5200SEs and 3100. Many of the high end speakers are active or partially active now like Gryphon, Marten etc. My Avantgarde Primos were half active too.

  26. #26
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne View Post
    my last 3 sets of speakers (since 2005) are/were active in the lower octaves
    Which then begs the oft raised question in "why not active", how many amp failures did you have?
    Who here owns a passive sub? Subs have been active for decades. They represent a "worst case" scenario of pressure/vibration/heat stresses for amp reliability. Yet...I have a 20(?) yr old Pinnacle Baby Boomer sub, not exactly uber high end, inexpensive most likely made in China et al amp, that still works flawlessly.
    Ditto for my 2004 Rythmik servo amps, now 15yrs old. Works perfect. Old Behringer studio monitor too.
    I'm not saying it isn't a factor, but I think the whole "reliability" negative is largely a red herring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne View Post
    I do think that as expectations increase for ultimate real in-room lower octave performance with top level speakers, that the active approach has huge advantages. active makes it much more likely to get room-speaker hookup and smooth lower octaves. and it allows for amplifier choice for the passive part of the speaker to have much greater latitude.....as it's not being called on to do as much.
    And that is the audiophile view of active being same as passive configuration/design speaker but with onboard or direct amplification/EQ.
    Active allows far more than that. It allows bass pattern control, ala the Kii, D&D etc speakers with cardioid bass. I've been doing that for over a decade....and more. I had an active system that had a sealed woofer and a dipole woofer in the same cabinet. The sealed went from 20-200, the dipole from 40-400. The overlap region was cardioid. But you could "slide" the crossover between them up or down. So if you wanted box bass "punch" and "slam", you raise the sealed lowpass and the dipole highpass to 80-100hz. Slam all you want. If you wanted the higher clarity, pitch and definition of the dipole bass (6db less reverberate power in room), you slide the XO down to 40.
    No passive system extant can do anything like that. And that's just bass.
    Above that you can go cardioid (again like Kii/D&D et al) and place the speaker much closer to front wall without detrimental effects..like a monopole or dipole passive. Or you can go full nuts and include totally separate rear indirect diffuse/decorrelated radiation drivers to control the size of the soundstage (real, no imagination required). All at the touch of a button.
    Again, either impractical...or impossible to do passive.
    Of course, folks can prefer whatever they want. YMMV.

    cheers,

    AJ

  27. #27
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    ...Would active speakers be something you would consider? If no, why?
    I did and presently own and use Kii threes as 'daily drivers.' Actives done right are superb and by my way of thinking the way forward for advancing the SOTA.

    IMO Guttenberg put proverbial foot in mouth in one of his vlogs re actives (see his comment section) and then followed up with a 2nd vid to explain what he was trying to say the first time but only dug a deeper hole for himself (IMO). It goes to show that even seasoned reviewers have a myopic view of speaker design and system integration. His bias was more like downright prejudice.

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  28. #28

    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Yes, I’d buy it today if Magico made their A1s active.

  29. #29
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Ha! Well said. I know it’s a tall order but still possible. As a second system, absolutely especially with some well implemented DSP. I do love the idea but like the Devialet before, giving up my mix ‘n match nature, I’d have to settle down some more.

    TBH, since my AG Duo XD arrived, I’ve been a lot better

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    Joe, given the numbers of systems I've seen you go through, that speaker with your style of sound would have to be called "The Chameleon".

    cheers,

    AJ
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  30. #30
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    There's something to be said about more traditional actives like ATC. Feed them analogue via XLR and then they won't be dated by an internal DAC, etc.

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  31. #31

    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    I gave Dynaudio active speakers a listen last year. Don't recall the exact model but they were the floorstanding models. Not bad actually. I wouldn't say it was in any way superior to a similar speaker among their passive model speakers would be with quality gear driving them but not far off either!
    Serge

  32. #32
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Quote Originally Posted by puroagave View Post
    I did and presently own and use Kii threes as 'daily drivers.' Actives done right are superb and by my way of thinking the way forward for advancing the SOTA.
    I just noticed your sig. Interesting mix! See, "analog" and "digital" can peacefully coexist.
    What do you think of the cardioid bass in room vs the typical box stuff you may have used before? Any temptation for the bass module, or is bottom good enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by puroagave View Post
    IMO Guttenberg put proverbial foot in mouth
    Seems like a nice fellow, but his technical illiteracy is unambiguous. Even funnier is the blissful unawareness and the equally so cheering section.
    Ah well.

    cheers,

    AJ

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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    I just noticed your sig. Interesting mix! See, "analog" and "digital" can peacefully coexist.
    What do you think of the cardioid bass in room vs the typical box stuff you may have used before? Any temptation for the bass module, or is bottom good enough?


    Seems like a nice fellow, but his technical illiteracy is unambiguous. Even funnier is the blissful unawareness and the equally so cheering section.
    Ah well.

    cheers,

    AJ
    Even Ethan Winer jumped into the fray to take his shot at SG, I never thought 'd see the day I'd agree with Ethan on anything .

    As for the analog/digital mash-up it gets better... horror of horrors, class d amps are involved regardless, the Kii convey minute difference in digital sources as well as anything in my experience. with analog sources, its onboard ADC runs on its own DSP that Bruno Putzeys wrote, it's not a multiple of 44.1 or 48khz and doesn't use an off the shelf SRC chip. Nothing is off the shelf or parts bin engineered with this speaker, it's a clean sheet design through and through.

    I took a leap of faith not knowing exactly how my LP playback would work out. very, very well as it turns out. the resolution on its 'analog' inputs is as transparent to the source as one would expect at this level; I don't hear anything 'missing' from recordings im intimately familiar with. differences in SQ between phono stages, cartridges, etc are not much different or less revealing than an all-analog throughput. changes in VTA/SRA are just as coherent and easy to discern. I'm presently in a smaller listening room than I'm used to with the Kiis close to the front wall about 6-8" away, something I don't normally do. The bass response, reach and tightness is phenomenal. The Kiis are head and shoulders above and way beyond any passive compact speaker I've ever owned. There are user defined contour settings for the cardioid response based on things like proximity to room boundaries. its far from a gimmick and its easily heard--as you already know. In practice cardioid bass eliminates bloat and floor bounce an added benefit are sharpened image outlines, improved depth etc. Soundstaging freaks will love this speaker. I don't see myself adding the BXT modules unless I move back in to a larger space. From a mid-field listening position I can get life-like SPL levels w/o strain or audible compression, what stops me from finding its limits is my wish to preserve the hearing I have left.
    Linn Kilmax LP12 | Channel D | Valvet | Muse Elec. | Innuos | Klipsch

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  34. #34
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    I would look at what is available at the time assuming I was going to replace what I have.


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  35. #35
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Quote Originally Posted by puroagave View Post
    As for the analog/digital mash-up it gets better... horror of horrors, class d amps are involved
    Hah, yes, I know. But of course, just to be 100% clear to our readership, Class "D" does not stand for "Digital". It just happened to come after Class C. It's a very common misconception among audiophiles. It's 100% analog.
    Yes, I have no irrational belief/fear of well engineered Class D. Understanding electro-acoustics helps. As a matter of fact I "field tested" that very concept on literally hundreds of golden eared audiophiles. They key was they had no idea they were being tested. Which means there could be no "stress" excuse and "the test conditions 'masked' my normal elite hearing" excuse, etc, etc.
    Turns out well engineered Class D is no different from well engineered A or AB. Just a heck of a lot greener. Bruno's stuff is particularly well engineered. Tis why I use also.

    Quote Originally Posted by puroagave View Post
    I took a leap of faith not knowing exactly how my LP playback would work out. very, very well as it turns out. the resolution on its 'analog' inputs is as transparent to the source as one would expect at this level; I don't hear anything 'missing' from recordings im intimately familiar with. differences in SQ between phono stages, cartridges, etc are not much different or less revealing than an all-analog throughput. changes in VTA/SRA are just as coherent and easy to discern. I'm presently in a smaller listening room than I'm used to with the Kiis close to the front wall about 6-8" away, something I don't normally do. The bass response, reach and tightness is phenomenal. The Kiis are head and shoulders above and way beyond any passive compact speaker I've ever owned. There are user defined contour settings for the cardioid response based on things like proximity to room boundaries. its far from a gimmick and its easily heard--as you already know. In practice cardioid bass eliminates bloat and floor bounce an added benefit are sharpened image outlines, improved depth etc. Soundstaging freaks will love this speaker. I don't see myself adding the BXT modules unless I move back in to a larger space. From a mid-field listening position I can get life-like SPL levels w/o strain or audible compression, what stops me from finding its limits is my wish to preserve the hearing I have left.
    Very cool. Yes, the only thing that comes out of the speakers, is analog. As long as that sounds like what you are hearing, all else prior is irrelevant. No way you could get away with that type sound that close to the front wall with "traditional" designs. I agree that only a larger space/highish spl requirements might mandate the bass modules.
    Have not heard them myself, but hope to in the future. Should sound familiar.
    Now all you need is a nice, warm glowing tube preamp!

    cheers,

    AJ

  36. #36
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Wait , what ! Class D is no different from Class A , AB , it’s just greener ...


    Green is my least favorite color .... !



    Regards

  37. #37
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    A well engineered (vs fashion design) active will beat passive in the soundwaves>ears domain. Demonstrably so in physical reality/trust ears/just listen scenario. Out in the wild, all possibilities exist.


    That's a red herring. No law dictating internal amps. Exhibit A: Linkwitz speakers. Others, including any of mine also.


    That of course, would be the dilemma, since "best" exists only in the mind of the audiophile, not physical reality, is 50 different things to 40 different audiophiles, depending on the minute of the day, direction of the wind, poll numbers, etc, etc....and subject to change, to put it mildly.
    Possible with the Linkwitz configuration type scenario, but for optimal performance, would keep the original engineer/designer busy throughout the year. Or day.

    cheers,

    AJ

    Every full active speakers i have ever heard sounded like HiFi , never real , alive, lifelike , et al , always electrical, HiFi sounding, i kinda left wanting that HiFi sound back in the 70’s, IMO best is hybrid active/ passive , the critical midband-tweeter section is best handled by a good passive xover, active in the bass due to inductor size and losses associated with..


    Still a well designed full passive setup speaks with a unity of voicing not matched electrically by a full active /passive setup ..


    Regards

  38. #38
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    Wait , what ! Class D is no different from Class A , AB
    Read a bit slower lest you see what's not there Mr Wayne.
    Their ears couldn't tell any difference. When they didn't know which was being heard.
    Not saying there is none when they know and all the psychogenic maladies flourish. Comprende?
    Actually there was switching where everyone heard a difference. even when there was no switch. ;-)
    My Youtube offer stands as always. Let me know when you are ready for fame

  39. #39
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Lol ,

    Automatic revoke of audiophile license if one cant hear the difference with ClassD , BTW my offer still stands, Bring your class D , I will provide speakers and class A amp ..



  40. #40
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    I like when you get all science/technical with us Mr Wayne ;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    the critical midband-tweeter section is best handled by a good passive xover
    Really? How do you account for the TS parameters of the drivers varying with signal level? What values do you use for your filter network, based on what signal level? Large or small? They can't be the same, so tell us how your fixed filter values account for varying TS.
    And what about inductance modulation of your moving coil speaker depending on displacement in the gap?
    What about interchannel precision for better imaging properties, can you post some measurements of your passive designs that show better than active interchannel precision?
    Btw, this is all purely objective, so looking forward lots of data, in lieu of lots of "words". Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    Still a well designed full passive setup speaks with a unity of voicing not matched electrically by a full active /passive setup ..
    Terrific, nothing subjective there at all, a purely objective claim. Please present your electrical measurements supporting this rather extraordinary claim Mr Wayne.
    Can we presume they are present in your commercial designs that all can hear and judge for themselves?

    cheers,

    AJ

  41. #41
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    Automatic revoke of audiophile license if one cant hear the difference with ClassD , BTW my offer still stands, Bring your class D , I will provide speakers and class A amp ..
    Or bring you Class A amp to the next FLExpo, get ready to be an unlicensed Youtube sensation.

  42. #42
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    I am a total convert to active. I use the Aurender and the ARC Ref 6 on the front end and then a killer active system to bring the music to my ears (and soul). The best of both worlds in my opinion. It is a no-compromise design with dynamics and realism. If you are near Tampa, send me a note. Would love to have you hear them....
    Aurender N100H > Cary DAC 200ts > Audio Research Ref 6
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  43. #43
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    I like when you get all science/technical with us Mr Wayne ;-)


    Really? How do you account for the TS parameters of the drivers varying with signal level? What values do you use for your filter network, based on what signal level? Large or small? They can't be the same, so tell us how your fixed filter values account for varying TS.
    And what about inductance modulation of your moving coil speaker depending on displacement in the gap?
    What about interchannel precision for better imaging properties, can you post some measurements of your passive designs that show better than active interchannel precision?
    Btw, this is all purely objective, so looking forward lots of data, in lieu of lots of "words". Thanks!


    Terrific, nothing subjective there at all, a purely objective claim. Please present your electrical measurements supporting this rather extraordinary claim Mr Wayne.
    Can we presume they are present in your commercial designs that all can hear and judge for themselves?

    cheers,

    AJ

    Love it when you get all digital and objective with us , i mean your invisible graphs look, well , amazing , you must know a lot , i mean you do say so ..

    A pity ..

    Regards

  44. #44
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    Or bring you Class A amp to the next FLExpo, get ready to be an unlicensed Youtube sensation.

    Get a bigger room i will bring a real speaker for you to hear too ..

  45. #45
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    Get a bigger room i will bring a real speaker for you to hear too ..
    Ok fine, let's see some real pics to make this real believable.

  46. #46
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    Love it when you get all digital and objective with us , i mean your invisible graphs look, well , amazing , you must know a lot , i mean you do say so ..
    That would be a big nothingburger then. Zero evidence for lots of words. It's cool Mr Wayne, we all knew you were only bluffing.

  47. #47
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Give me a chance to go over your graphs , a lot here to absorb ...



  48. #48
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    Give me a chance to go over your graphs , a lot here to absorb ...
    So not even pics of Mr Waynes imaginary speakers with better than active crossovers?

    Anyone else here seen or hear them?
    We going to need a pic on the side of a milk carton Mr Wayne?

  49. #49
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    I put up a pic on your website , Jib Jab Audio , its beside your Speakers specs And graphs ,



  50. #50
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    Re: Active Speakers - would you consider?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    That would be a big nothingburger then. Zero evidence for lots of words. It's cool Mr Wayne, we all knew you were only bluffing.

    Waiting on Guiness , i think a world record on Irony posted here ...!

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